Best Racehorses of All Times

Now Gentildonna has surpassed her – with Gentildonna not only crossing the finish line first in two Japan Cups, but keeping the win in both. Buena Vista still a great mare though.

Brough Scott is quoted in The Observer as calling Grundy's win in the '75 KG&QE "the hardest, most implacable, most moving Flat race I have ever seen."

Ruffian broke down 4f into the 10f match race. They had gone the first 2f in 22 1/5, the first 4f in 44 3/5, with Ruffian unable to shake off Foolish Pleasure on her outside. Here’s how Sports Illustrated reported it: "... the little bay colt was running with her, showing surprising speed to go with his unquestioned courage.” Baeza, well aware the filly had been pulled up, allowed his colt to gallop on, gradually restraining him in what now amounted to a walkover. Yet Foolish Pleasure clocked the first 6f (the last 2f on his own!) in an astonishing 1:08 3/5, only 1/5 off the track record.

Hey, good points! Only the complete surrender of reason to sentimentality can explain how, after Foolish Pleasure literally ran Ruffian off her legs in the match race, his reputation went DOWN and her's went UP!

Here are some cold hard facts comparing Foolish Pleasure's and Ruffian's racing records. Readers can draw their own conclusions. FOOLISH PLEASURE at 2 & 3: 18 - 12-4-1; $1,000,873; average earnings per start $55,604; 6 G1 wins; finished off the board only once (5th against older horses in the Marlboro Cup). RUFFIAN at 2 & 3: 11 - 10-0-0; $313,429; average earnings per start $28,494; 5 G1 wins (all in races restricted to fillies); finished off the board only once (DNF match race against Foolish Pleasure, the only time she raced against a colt; she never raced outside her age group).

When the United States' National Museum of Racing launched the Hall of Fame in 1955, it chose nine horses to be the Hall's initial inductees. Kingston was one of them.

Correcting my entry for this horse: Kingston was one of America's top handicap horses in six of the nine years he raced (not the top handicapper).

Ghostzapper was declared the World's Best Racehorse of 2004 by the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities in its World Thoroughbred Racehorse Rankings for '04.

Ghostzapper still has the highest Beyer speed figure around two-turns: 128, in the 9f Iselin Stakes at Monmouth in 2004, which he won by the still-record margin of 10¾ lengths. He registered a 124 Beyer in winning the 10f Breeders’ Cup Classic the same year in 1:59.02, still the record for the Classic. And he chalked up two other Beyers in the 120s: 122 in the 8f Metropolitan Hcp in ’05; and 120 in the 6f Tom Fool Hcp in ’04.

An impressive three-year-old campaign, for sure. But, as is pointed out below, both Timeform and the International Classification rated him only the third best of his crop on his side of the Atlantic. That hardly qualifies him for any list of the "Best Racehorses of All Times."

A brilliant colt in a brief career (7 – 6-0-1), Nashwan was the first horse to win the Guineas, Derby, Eclipse and King George in the same year. But questions linger about the quality of horses he beat. A 500-to-1 shot was second in his Derby. Timeform rated him only the third best three-year-old of 1989, behind Zilzal and Old Vic. And the International Classification did likewise. Willie Carson declared him the best horse he ever rode. But in a documentary posted on YouTube, Maj. Anthony Arkwright, the Jockey Club Handicapper, says: “I think Nashwan is a very good horse indeed. … My trouble is, as a handicapper and with a view to the classifications, the horses that have finished behind him.”

Nashwan should never be rated in the top 50 as he was just an average Derby winner. Rated around about 85 at best.

Great horse won , 2000 guiness , epsom derby , eclipse , king george ,

"It was one of the bravest moments I ever saw in horse racing." - announcer Tom Durkin on Holy Bull's sensational win in the 1994 Travers (see YouTube posting titled 'Holy Bull - Tribute to a Champion.')

"He lived up to his name, honestly. He was holy and he was a bull." - jockey Mike Smith, in a YouTube posting titled 'Holy Bull - Tribute to a Champion.'

at a mile and16th and a 8th absolutely unbeatable and should be rated in the top 15 at least.

Petite Etoile won the fillies' 1,000 Guineas in more than 2-seconds faster time than Taboun won the colts' 2,000 Guineas the same year (1959).

What a personality! What a presence! What a performer! Her prancing and dancing seemed to exude joy. In the race, she was electricity in motion. Her size and flare and dramatic stretch runs make her the most charismatic racehorse, if not the fastest I have ever seen. Unlike Silky Sullivan who also raced far back, she used that tactic to beat every other horse but one. The idea that those horses were sub par ignores their accomplishments. She barely lost her last race, having run much farther than Blame, on his home track and having had to weave in and around traffic. Her race in the BCC the previous year was even better. She passed up probable Distaff championships three years in a row to face some of the best older males in her second and third seasons. She did not start her career until much later than most - to the credit of her trainer. Three year olds are great but that does not mean horses should not get acclaim if they start later. The racing industry would gain popularity if this approach were tried more often. We are tired of being disappointed when the flashes in the pan do their fastest racing getting to the breeding shed. Maybe Ruffian could have beat her at 7 furlongs. But Zenyatta would have done even better at longer distances and quite probably if had she had run on the turf. Too bad they are trying to dull her best qualities with shorter distance sires as mates.

I'm an Ausi - I know racing and I have seen the best for over 50 years. "Champion" is a word used too loosely in horse racing. You have to define the word "champion" - to me a champion racehorse makes other top class horses look "second rate" Having followed US racing as well as the global menue, I suggest to you that Zenyatta is the greatest race mare of all time - did plenty wrong and miised the kick at her last start but undeniably an "excitement" machine and far superior to other females. A New Zealand bred mare "Sunline" warrants serious consideration - Google her. Aga Khan mares are good and very well managed, but are they world beaters? - I dont think they have proved it. Please be a hard marker people - your "favourite" horse is not neccessarily the greatest. No emotion - be objective.

i know big red and sham and man o war .. mostly big red.. i have heard of zenatta and ruffian, but so far i like zenyatta better than ruffian .. but secretariat ( aka big red ) is my fav

I agree with the previous post. And what about the Arc-winning filly Zarkava at #27? Wow!

Ruffian was better and rachel might have been better in 2009 but not 2010

To say ANY HORSE would have bested Ruffian in 6/7 furlong races is one BOLD statement. Ruffian CONSISTENTLY posted world class 6 furlong runs with her remarkable times typically between 1:08-3/5 to 1:09 in change.

Zemyatta #21 is a pure INSULT!!!! She Has raced the best in the world and beat them all. Yes BLAME beat her but lets be real. Mike "DumpTruck" Smith gave her a TERRIBLE ride and still after all that she still almost won trhe race. My only wish for her was to either stay with David Flores on board or maybe Joel Rosario.

Zenyatta made the sport of kings into the sport of queens...and SHE is the queen

personaly i like zenyatta but anyone who says she is better then ruffian is dead wrong.zenyatta wasnt ahead every second of the race like ruffian and if they were to race zenyatta wouldnt be able to pull off catching ruffian

Zenyatta is difficult to rate. Great horse no doubt but not the greatest.

Zenyatta touched the country's everythime she took a step on or off the track. She made people come to racetracks just so they could see the Queen of the Sport of Kings. Every time I saw her race I cried my heart out! Where would horse racing be right now without Zenyatta? You tell me....

Anyone who calls Zenyatta garbage is an insult to horse racing, an insult to the horse and obviously a jealous Rachel Alexandra fan. If you listen to all of the EXPERTS they all say that she has to be considered as one of the greatest of all time. She is a phenominal horse and in my opinion her ranked at number 3 behind Arkle and Secretariat is where she deserves to be, however, if it was greatest flat racehorses of all time, she would have been 2nd with Shergar 3rd.

Zenyatta was garbage.. Never beat anyone good, except a couple decent turf horses on synthetics... In 20 races only raced out of her backyard 3 times... Only faced the boys twice losing 1 of them... Maybe in list of top 10 mares, but certainly not top ten of all time... Quick note of 10 horses better than her... Secretariat, war admiral, a.p Indy, Curlin, alydar, cigar, easy goer, personal ensign, go for wand, ruffian.... Need I say more

Whatever 'floats your boat". Zenyatta was great, but unfortunately she is "EASILY" not even the best female race horse of all time since Ruffian would have left her in a cloud of dust!!! Please get real!!!

Super horse but strangely lacking super times. Still think Ruffian was the faster and better horse. Had Zenyatta faced Ruffian, Queen Z would have required a different stategy because NO WAY Zenyatta would be making up her typical stretch run ground against Ruffian's blinding speed.

Uh, for one, shes retired now. And to win the triple crown a horse has to be 3. Queen Z is now 6. I think 8 is a fair number. I defiantly believe shes in the top ten of all time.

She was a great filly. But no not good enough for number one. Once she wins the triple crown should she be given the title if the best.

If anything, she should be ranked number 1 mare of all time. I honestly can't think of a better one.

Zenyatta is the greatest closing runner of all time. Her jockey has never asked for her top gear, and she has never been defeated. If she wins the BCC again, just imagine how that defies logic. She is an older female horse. GOAT has never been more properly given to an athlete. Zenyatta is the GOAT. (Greatest Of All Time)

We may never know how fast she really is because what she does is get to the wire first. I have never seen a horse more nimble and able to step out of trouble, and with the drive and instinct to win like Zenyatta.

And he was Champion Three-Year-Old Colt AND Horse of the Year in 2001.

And he's in the Hall of Fame.

To call Point Given a “3rd rater” is an irrational statement. He was a G1 winner at two, going 6 – 3-3-0 in his juvenile season. His only defeat at three was in the KY Derby, finishing fifth (the only off-the-board finish of his career). He won the Preakness by 2 ¼ and the Belmont by 12 ¼ (trouncing KY Derby winner Monarchos). He also won the Travers and beat older horses in the Haskell to become the first horse to win four consecutive $1 million races. After the Haskell, Point Given retired due to injury, finishing his career 13 – 9-3-0 with earnings of $3,698,500. We should all have such a “3rd rater.”

Well named horse as there is no point in him being here. 3rd rater at best

Among the future champions sired are Frankel, New Approach, Australia and Minding.

Kauto Star was put down on 29th June 2015. RIP.

One of my favourite National Hunt heroes. Winning a fifth King George VI Chase in 2011 was a joy to watch.

Ridiculous that this horse is rated so highly. 50 at best.

I agree rated much too high.

How can this horse be rated so highly? Good chaser, but definitely not the best.

Ridiculous that this horse is rated so high. KS wasn't even the best steeplechaser. Just proves my point that some people know absolutely NOTHING about what constitutes a great horse.

Kauto Star was just a good horse, NOT a great horse. Arkle would have crucified KS off level weights and even have beaten him giving KS more than a stone. Some people get carried away by one or two good performances by a horse, Arkle did it regularly time and time again. Arkle NEVER fell; Kauto Star did more than once and also blundered at his fences. Kauto Star just wasn't in the same class as Arkle and most people know it.

NO! It is NOT a fact that Kauto Star was the greatest chaser ever. That distinction belongs to Arkle. If you think that KS is the greatest chaser ever, then you know nothing about horseracing.

Kauto Star was a fine chaser but a long way short of the very best. Arkle would have given Kauto Star a stone and beaten him. What most people forget is that KS was NEVER asked to concede weight to the opposition,which is always the hallmark of a great horse.

62ND!!!!!!!!! KAUTO STARS ONLY 62ND!!!! absolutely unbelievable horse. only horse to have won grade 1s 7 years in a row over fences, won more group 1s than any other steeplechaser, won from 2m up to 3m2f, done all this at a time when there were so many other vintage horses like Denman, Long Run etc so how on earth is he only 62nd? mick fitzgerald was interviewed just before the 2010 gold cup and when asked what weaknesses the horse had said he has none. the 3rd greatest chaser behind arkle and flyingbolt. ive been reading this list from 100 up and its a travesty that him, Denman and other NH horses arent higher up. rant over lol

Well he won again! The best chaser the UK has ever seen. FACT.

Yes it was fantastic to see KS bounce back with that great win at Haydock, BUT watch Long Run turn the tables on him in the King George on Boxing Day.

i am delighted that after you and so many people said kauto is past his best that he showed once again what he is made of.. see what did to long run in the betfair last weekend!! greatest chaser and most charismatic horse ever!!

Yes, Kauto was a breath of fresh air in the chasing sphere and certainly brought many people into the racing game with his tremendous jumping. As the previous contributor has said, Kauto Star is probably the best chaser since Arkle and Flyingbolt. I hope the connections of this great horse will now give him the retirement he deserves as he is clearly past his best. I would hate to see him get hurt in his twilight years.

People have to realise that Kauto Star has not only won 2 Gold Cups. He has won 2 Gold Cups beating another one of the top 5 Steeplechasers of all time. Denman. That is an amazing acheivement, and I cannot help but think that if Denman had been around 5 years before Kauto Star, how many Gold Cups would both horses of won. They both would have been totally dominant.

To put it simply the best steeplechaser since the great Arkle.

In any other year, he'd been a Triple Crown winner..but he duels with Affirmed are legendary. And while Affirmed by have topped him on the track....Alydar won the battle in the breeding barn with offspring such as Alysheba, Easy Goer, Strike the Gold, Criminal Type, Althea, Clabber Girl, and many, many more. When Alydar mysteriously died....Calumet died with him.

Most difficult jump race in the world.Red Rum won it 3 times and second twice.Nothing else matters.Rummy is the best jump horse of all time.Remember,horses die at AIntree.Regularly.This is the ultimate test.

How can Red Rum only be 50th?No horse has ever got close to matching what he did.Can somebody please address this rather than going on about elitist NH races.Aintree is the hardest course in the world.You try "plodding" around it.ed Rum should be in the top five of all time,theres no question in my mind.

Rummy WAS the greatest horse ever to jump those Grand National fences, but he was nothing special on any other racecourse as his record proves. Arkle and many other top steeplechasers would have and, in fact DID, beat Red Rum easily. To suggest that Red Rum was the greatest racehorse ever just shows how little some people know about horseracing.

This was the FINEST horse of all time.Look at the jumps he made in 5 straight National runs and 3 wins!Incredible.And I fear the race is doomed anyway.Another 2 have died.Its such a dangerous race and thats why I think Red Rum earns the accolade as greatest.Either him or that great American horse Secretariat.Both are god-like.

He sure wowed me!! Never thought he could win the national 3 times! It was a tragic day when he died RIP red rum

Red Rum certainly wasn't a 'plodder', as you put it. If you took the time to scan his racing record you would find that he actually won over 5 furlongs as a 2-year old, which not even Arkle or Flyingbolt achieved. I will,however, concede that Red Red wasn't in Arkle's and Fyingbolt's class as a steeplechaser. Finally, just bear this thought in mind: No horse in your lifetime, even if you're in your 20's, will ever equal let alone better Red Rum's Grand National record. In fact I cannot see Red Rum's Aintree record EVER being beaten.

red rum was a plogging handicapper. anyone who says this is a good horse needs their head examined.yes a popular horse for winning the grand national but lets be serious as a thorough bred measure did he win at Cheltenham NO so not in the same class as those great gold cup horses just a plodder

If you take a closer look at his racing record you will find that he only won 25% of the races he competed in. To put things in perspective Red Rum was a much better horse when racing at Aintree than anywhere else. His winning ratio at Aintree was 60%. Compare this with Arkle's winning ratio 34 races contested and he won 27 ,that's almost 80% achieved on many different courses. In fact Arkle was such a great steeplechaser that he still holds the course record for the extended 3 miles at Sandown Park which he set in 1965, 46 years ago. He smashed the course record by 19 seconds that day carrying top weight of 12 stone. With all those statistics, no sane thinking person could claim that Red Rum was better than Arkle. Just to add a postscript .It has been said that if Arkle had run in the Grand National the handicapper would probably have set him a crushing impost of 12 stone 10 pounds, which would have meant that he would have been asked to concede almost 3 stone to some of those horses at the bottom of the handicap. That would have bordered on animal cruelty.

You really fail to grasp the logic of NH racing. On any racecourse anywhere in the world Arkle would have given 2 stone to Red Rum and beaten him easily and anyone who knows anything about NH racing would agree. Red Rum was a special horse over the Grand National fences, but the fact is that he really wasn't anything special on other racecourses as his record testifies. I love Rummy as much as the next man, but the stark fact is that he wasn't one of the really great jumpers like Arkle,Flyingbolt,Mill House, etc.

Red Rum.... 67??? Is this a site for mental patients? Secretariat was a very good horse no doubt but he isn't anything as special as Rummy. 67 on the list is a disgrace to the greatest racehorse of all time

I think that Red Rum was a truly exceptional chaser,easily the best horse ever to jump those Aintree fences, but you MUST put things in their proper perspective. Red Rum could not compete with the very best and at level weights would have been beaten by many of the other top chasers on this list. Chasers such as: Arkle, Flyingbolt,Golden Miller, Kauto Star, Best Mate, Desert Orchid and Denman. If you believe otherwise then you know NOTHING about NH racing.

Yes,I quite agree.His triple at AIntree makes him a unique horse.To understand his achievement you MUST go to Aintree and see the fences for yourself.You cant watch it on TV and understand just exactly what Red Rum achieved.And the course is easier than in Rummy's day!!!Top 20 horse for sure..some might say top 10.

why is rummy so low?have people seen the fences at aintree?

Whilst I agree that Arkle was a better chaser than Red Rum,I too am disgusted to find this horse so low down in the poll.Its disrespectful to his amazing achievement.

Whoever elevated Red Rum above the likes of Arkle and Flyingbolt has only succeeded in showing his/their complete lack of horseracing knowledge and,quite frankly, proves what clowns you are

He is in the top ten of NH horses. He is only 91st in this cockeyed list. But you must face facts Rummy is NOT the best NH horse, that distinction belongs to Arkle. End of argument.

91st!!Thats some joke.This horse is a legend and must take his place in the top ten.No horse,except possibly Dessie,had a bigger heart.His record will NEVER be broken.You cant say that about any other horse here except Secretariat.91st!What an injustice.

It is totally ludicrous to believe that Red Rum was the best chaser of all time as he was often beaten by ordinary horses on park courses. One case in point is when Red Candle beat him in the Hennessey Gold Cup. Red who? you may ask. No, Red Rum was a truly great horse jumping those Grand National fences but cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Arkle, who would have beaten him out of site at any park course in Britain conceding more than a stone in weight. Those are undeniable facts as anyone who knows about horseracing will verify.

I never intended to turn this discussion into a head-to-head, bringing Golden Miller into the argument only because, like Red Rum, he is the holder of a unique record. A personal view is that Golden Miller, whose Gold Cups were won when the race had not nearly the status it has now, was not as good as Arkle or Flyingbolt, and probably several more recent staying chasers, but that, like all other opinions about the respective abilities of animals who raced in different eras, is obviously subjective. Incidentally, although you are certainly correct in your view that Red Rum was a better jumper than Golden Miller, that horse never actually fell. He was brought down once in his 52 races. On the other ten occasions on which he failed to finish he either unseated his rider or refused.

Just to add aswell that Red Rum only fell 1 time in 100 starts. Golden Miller actually fell 11 times. However you have turned this into a head to head between Red Rum and Golden Miller. That is not what was intended. All I was stating at the start is that Red Rum was underated for his unbeleivable and unmatched achievement. He desrve to be 10th on this list. But I do believe he was the best chaser of all time.

Agreed. Red Rum is indeed a legend. And you are right about a non-racing fan being likely to know the name, although Kauto Star might nowadays be just as likely to spring to mind. Agreed also that the National is a gruelling test few horses could pass. But it follows from that that most of the horses Red Rum (and all other National winners) beat at Aintree were non-stayers and were therefore not serious contenders. Am I saying that he "didn't beat anything", as you said regarding Golden Miller? Of course not. I have respect for both animals.

Grand National wins seem to be the yardstick for the above writer. So he will be impressed (won't he?) when it turns out that I CAN name not only one horse of note but three beaten by Golden Miller in Gold Cups. The three I have in mind are Grakle, Kellsboro Jack and Royal Mail, and the reason I have named them rather than others is that, in addition to being beaten by GM at Cheltenham, all three won Nationals. Facts are unlikely to impress that writer, however, and I daresay he will continue to press the up and down arrows until he has achieved his objective of getting dear old Rummy to the top of this list.

Ok have a look at how many horses run in a National and how many run in a Gold Cup. And can you name 1 horse that Golden Miller beat in any of his Gold Cups or his national. He didn't beat anything.

Golden Miller won an unequalled five Cheltenham Gold Cups (not to mention a Grand National). How many other horses have won the Gold Cup five times? That's right. Zero. That should tell you how hard THAT is. But that proves no more than the writer above proved as regards dear old Rummy.

Anyone who puts this horse out of the top ten obviously doesn't see the bigger picture. How many other horses have won the national 3 times. Thats right zero. That should tell you how hard it is.

He Should have been alot higher at least in the top 15

Re the reference three posts below to Timeform rating Abernant a whopping 6 lbs superior to Black Caviar, Timeform similarly rated the early 1950s sprinter Windy City at 142 (6 lbs superior to BC) just based on Windy City’s four wins from five starts as 2yo in Ireland, England and France.

Abernant was the reason that the great influence on Australian breeding "STAR KINGDOM" came to AUSI. Abernant and Sta Kingdom were both 2 yo flyers but Abernant won their only meeting - bang off to the colonies with SK - thankyou!!

Abernant was an unbelievably fast sprinter and would have beaten most of the modern day speed horses, in Europe and America.

I love the way the "Black Caviarists" extrapolate from her 136 Timeform rating that she is the greatest sprinter since Pegasus. Timeform rates Abernant a massive 6 lb superior to Black Caviar!

Noel Murless, Abernant's trainer, rated him the fastest racehorse he ever saw. Abernant's speed was truly phenomenal.

He was very speedy, probably the fastest horse ever trained in the British Isles,if not in Europe.

In one piece of work over 3 furlongs Abernant was asked to go past a lead horse who had been given a 30 length start and he did so with ease. Abernant possessed absolutely blistering speed.

Abernant was an incredibly fast sprinter and must be considered as one of the very best over 5 and 6 furlongs.

Zev also won a $20,000 match race against In Memoriam in 1923, described by the DRF as "perhaps the most famous non-Derby race ever run at Churchill Downs." The two horses hit the finish line together and the judges' verdict - Zev by a whisker - remains controversial to this day. Many present thought In Memoriam had prevailed and some newspaper photographs of the finish appear to support that contention. But history records Zev as the winner.

About to turn 21, Silver Charm recently returned from Japan to live out his twilight years at Old Friends Farm in KY. Welcome back old fella!

Gutsy horse who never had an easy race in his career. Always did it the hard way in winning at G1 level at 2, 3 and 4 – including two classics and an international cup. But one of his most heroic efforts was in the 1998 Breeders’ Cup Classic. Despite racing a minimum of three-wide all the way around Churchill Downs’ two turns, he courageously repelled all challengers down the straight except Awesome Again who beat him by three-quarters of a length in what the BC website describes as “arguably one of the deepest fields assembled in [the] Championships history.” Among those finishing behind Silver Charm in the Classic (all of them having had better trips) were European Champion Swain, US Horse of the Year Skip Away, and Belmont Stakes winners Victory Gallop and Touch Gold (the colt who denied Silver Charm the Triple Crown in the ’97 Belmont).

Retired in 1999 as the third highest earning thoroughbred to that time with $6,944,369 in career earnings. And is in the U.S. Hall of Fame.

Silver Charm only lost the Triple Crown by 3/4 of a length -- that was the margin Touch Gold beat him by in the 1997 Belmont after Silver Charm had won the KY Derby and Preakness. Of course, Silver Charm went on to win the Dubai World Cup the following year.

Ninth from the bottom of these posts under Ruffian is perhaps the most absurd comment on this entire site. It was posted in 2012 and says: "If Ruffian were alive today she would woop every racehorses butt!" If Ruffian had been alive in 2012 she would have been 40 years old!!!

Treve becomes the 12th three-year-old filly to win the Arc. And like the other 11 before her, she beat competition the like of which Ruffian never dreamed of, much less raced against.

You should add both Meld and Petite Etoile to the long list of fillies with superior records to Ruffian. Meld (6 – 5-1-0) won the English fillies Triple Crown, including beating colts in the St Leger, in 1955. And as a three-year-old Petite Etoile (19 – 14-5-0) took on and beat all-comers in the 1959 Champion Stakes.

You left out another great filly whose record is substantially better than Ruffian's, Formosa. She not only beat the best colts in the 1868 St. Leger but also dead-heated for first against the best colts in the 2,000 Guineas ... in addition to winning the 1,000 Guineas and the Epsom Oaks.

Add two more to the rapidly growing list of fillies who took on greater challenges than Ruffian did, and succeeded: Winning Colors (KY Derby) and Rag To Riches (Belmont, beating Curlin).

Using logic rather than sentimentality, wouldn’t all 11 three-year-old fillies who won the Arc – Europe’s most prestigious open-company race – have to be considered superior to Ruffian? Ruffian never raced against the best older males and females in North America; she never raced against ANY older males or females. These 11 fillies not only took on the best older males/females in Europe (and some from beyond), but they beat them! The 11 fillies who won the Arc at three are: Danedream (the Arc record holder!), Zarkava, Akiyda, Detriot, Three Troikas, San San, La Sorellina, Coronation, Nikellora, Samos, Pearl Cap.

Ruffian was a great filly, no doubt. But she never raced outside her age group and never completed a race against other than fillies. So how can you rate her as the “best horse of all time” and claim she should be #1 on this list? That’s imbecilic! Off the top of my head, here are 11 fillies who have superior records to Ruffian - i.e., each of them, at three, won at the highest level against the best colts of their year and/or against the best older horses: Zarkava (Arc), Danedream (Arc), Dahlia (King George, DC International), Goldikova (BC Mile), Miesque (BC Mile), Pretty Polly (St. Leger), Spectre (St. Leger), Gentildonna (Japan Cup), Vodka (Japan Derby), Regret (KY Derby), Genuine Risk (KY Derby, placed Preakness/Belmont).

Good to see Orb carry her colors to victory in the KY Derby!

How is Ruffian a sprinter?!?

I agree with the previous post. And what about the Arc-winning filly Zarkava at #27? Wow!

Anyone who watches his performance in Queen Anne at Ascot would say greatest ever.

the truth is she might have had the speed but they should have let her grow up, her legs were not develpoed enought and that made her too weak. poor horse. i saw the film too i ran out the room even though i knew what the outcome was going to be. poor poor horse.

i have watched the film, nasty.

And what is the basis for you stating that Black Caviar would have bested Ruffian over 6 furlongs? I don't think so! Ruffian CONSISTENTLY posted 6 furlong times between 1:08-3/5 and 1:09 in change! It would be extremely difficult to best those times anywhere...anyhow! BARING NONE...Ruffian eaisly suffices as one of the fastest "less than a mile" sprinters in thoroughbred history!

At one mile or less, Zenyatta wouldn't have had a chance. Check out their times bewteen 5.5 and 8 furlongs & you too will agree. At 1-1/8 miles or better it would have been a coin toss between the two, but very few horses (even Secretariat) could have bested Ruffian at 6 or 7 furlongs.

Zenyatta would crush her. Who did she beat? Can you name one filly or mare she defeated? Zenyatta won the BCC and nearly captured it a second year while winning 19 of 20...with her only loss a head to the winning older male handicap eclipse award winner.....nuff said

I tend to agree with you about the Foolish Pleasure match race but no one can say for sure what the results would have been. The issue with Ruffian is that her "blazing" times were posted for "less than a mile" distances. Her few 1-1/8 and 1-1/2 mile times (she never posted a 1-1/4 mile) were good but not spectacular by any means (such as Secretariat's amazing 1-1/4 & 1-1/2 mile times). Considering that the first 1/4 mile in the match race was run at blazing 22-1/5 time, I strongly feel that BOTH horses would have emptied their tanks after a mile, with the last 1/4 mile a turtle race. The winner would have been determined by who had a little more left in the tank with a colt typically the winner in such a case. However, I agree with you that Ruffian "refused" to be behind in a race which would have made this a coin toin toss at the wire. Ruffian was truely a great champion and one of the top 10 horses of all-time!

Truely one of the fastest horses ever over distances a mile or less. Unfortunately, her 1-1/8 mile or greater times simply aren't fast enough to earn her a place in the top 3 - 5 horses of all-time. One of my favorites and her remarkable 6 - 8 furlong speed could only be matched by a handful of horses. One of the saddest days ever in thoroughbred racing when her leg gave way in the match race against Foolish Pleasure.

One of the most beautiful horses ever

Most overrated horse, ever. She never faced "open" competition of any type; not even outside her age. She set stakes records mostly, which were all RESTRICTED-AGE FEMALE. Her track-record equals were at sprints largely restricted to 2yo runners. This filly may have been brilliant and great, but doesn't truly have the solid proof to boot her above other females and - yikes - often touted as greater than the greatest males. Ruffian suffers from Martyr Syndrome - feel sorry for the fallen and inflate their reputations.

And paternal grandsire of 2014 Melbourne Cup winner Protectionist.

Paternal grandsire of 2013 Melbourne Cup winner Fiorente.

Danke schön for adding our great German horse Königsstuhl to this list.

How can anyone who knows anything about chasing rate Kauto Star higher than Flyingbolt? Flyingbolt was a vastly superior jumper to KS.

I don't think that anyone would argue that Flyingbolt was the greatest two-mile chaser ever to appear in Britain or Ireland in any era. I can't think of any other chaser who won the Two Mile Champion Chase at Cheltenham on the Tuesday and the very next day ran a fantastic race to finish a close up third in the Champion Hurdle, after looking like the winner two hurdles from home. A truly brilliant chaser at his best!

No need for apologies,my friend as I have been proved wrong more times than I care to recall. Good to know that you too admire the great horses of the past ,and they didn't come any greater than Arkle and Flyingbolt.

You're right. My shamed apologies. Not that that makes any difference to the relative abilities of Arkle and Flyingbolt. When Flyingbolt won in 1966 he gave Height O'Fashion 10lb more than Arkle had when winning by a similar margin two years earlier............ although Pat Taaffe did write in his autobiography that Arkle was not fully fit for that race.

Take another look, but this time more closely. The distance of the the Irish Grand National was increased from 3Miles 2furlongs to 3Miles 5furlongs AFTER Flyingbolt won the race.

Or, if that does not convince you, you can use the RP website to look up the result of the latest Irish GN, won by Organisedconfusion at Fairyhouse on April 25. Like all previous runnings, that was over three miles and five furlongs.

If the RP really does provide that info then the RP is wrong. Look at the Irish formbook, which confirms that the Irish National is run over three miles five.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Flyingbolt's win in the 1966 Irish Grand National was over a distance of 3miles 2 furlongs. He never won a race over a longer distance than this. The source of this information is The Racing Post , so it is authoritative.

To the latest commenter .......... Right enough. Flyingbolt did not win over three miles four furlongs. He did win the Irish Grand National over three miles five furlongs.

I remember you stating in one of your postings that Flyingbolt had won over 3miles 4 furlongs, which was totally incorrect. You later amended that post which proved that ,although you think you know it all, YOU DON'T!

Beyond his one brief shining moment in the KG&QE (a sensational performance, no question), he had too many deficiencies to rank him among the elite. He did not race at 2. He had only one Group win at 3 (a GIII). He won only one Group I in his career. And he lacked versatility with his six career wins all being between 10f and 13f.

By my count there are 197 horses in the U.S. Thoroughbred Hall of Fame. Mongo is not one of them. Affectionate as I am toward Mongo and his considerable accomplishments, if a horse is not rated by the U.S. industry as being among its top 197 performers then it should not be on this list.

Mongo not only beat Kelso twice but he also beat Kelso's arch rival Gun Bow, in the John B. Campbell, and was US Champion Male Turf Horse of 1963. But it makes no sense to have (quite rightly) Kelso at #5 on this list, Mongo at #73 and Gun Bow not on the list at all! Gun Bow is in the Hall of Fame; Mongo is not.

It's even more embarrassing to see the word spelt embarrising.

That vacuous statement could just as easily apply to many horses on this list. Why single out Mongo?

Sorry but why the hell is this horse on the list. Do people think that this horse is better than Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Alysheba, Alydar. The list could go on for days, embarrising that this horse is on this list.

12 Grp1 WINS in his 3yo year alone including beating the older open class horses in half of those Grp1 wins. Also ran a world record time for mile 1/2 when he won the Caulfield Cup. Missed his best years due to ilness but still came back and won multiple Grp1's incl the Weight For Age Championship of Australasia the WS Cox Plate. What a freak this horse was.

To rate Black Caviar as even remotely comparable to Tulloch is idiocy, pure and simple. An unfortunate side effect of Black Caviar's hysterically over-hyped success is that it has let loose on websites such as this a bunch of drongo Australians illiterate in international horse racing and its history - and in many cases illiterate in even Australian horse racing and its history.

What is it with these Black Caviar posters, most of whom merely exhibit their laughable ignorance of horse racing? Anyone who would rate her above Tulloch (two comments below) clearly has no comprehension of Tulloch's vastly superior record - and perhaps not the intellectual wherewithal to comprehend it. Tulloch took on the very best of his era, one of the great eras of Australasian horse racing, and beat them at distances from 5f to 16f. Among those he put away: the greatest sprinter of that era Todman, the internationally accomplished Sailor’s Guide and the other great Australasian stayers of that time like Prince Darius, Dhaulagiri, Lord, etc. The Black Caviar brigade seems to think that horse racing is about nothing more than stringing wins together without regard to the caliber of opposition, overcoming adversity, etc. If that were so then Kincsem’s 54 from 54 would make her the greatest racehorse of all time – end of discussion! As Australian racing writer Max Presnell asked in the Sydney Morning Herald of 5 April 2012: “Have winning sequences taken priority over the more demanding task of taking on the best?” Black Caviar is a one-trick pony sprinter; she has raced beyond 6f once, in the 7f C. F. Orr Stakes, and most of us have seen more competitive “boat races” than that. And she has raced in an era that lacks depth and quality of sprinters in Australia. She has had one race outside Australia, in one of the Ascot sprints that has been won by two Aussie horses before her, and she stumbled in in very ordinary time, narrowly beating a one-time G1 winner and a one-time G2 winner, hardly the sprinting cream of Europe.

Go away and get an idea before posting your dribble. For the record Tulloch won 36 from 53 starts with 16 placings.....yes thats ONCE unplaced in a 53 start career you fool and in all likelihood he missed his best years due to injury (entire 4yo and majority of 5yo year). He won 12 Group 1 races as a 3yo, 7 of them against the open class horses. Show me another horse who won 12 Grp 1 races in their 3yo season ?

A "great" in Australia; pity he never raced on the BIG stage (US or Europe).

Won an amazing 12 Group 1 races in his 3yo year alone incl running a world record turf time for 12f . Only an equine freak could possibly do that. Top 10er for sure !!!!

Tulloch is more than likely the 2nd best horse to ever race in Australia. As one of the world's premier racing jurisdictions and with 150+ years of racing history it is simply ludicrous Tulloch is not in or close to the top 10. His record speaks for itself. Once unplaced in 53 lifetime starts, including 36 wins 12 seconds

Tulloch was always rated higher than the superstar 3 times Cox Plate winner Kingston Town by the one man who should know, champion trainer Tommy Smith. He trained both of them ! He won from 5 furlongs to 2 miles and established Australian records at 10 furlongs - in winning the WS Cox Plate, 12 furlongs - in winning Caulfield Cup and it was the world record time for mile & 1/2 on turf and he was still only a spring 3yo when he did it. He also took 2 secs off Phar Lap's 28 year old AJC Derby record. He was almost certainly the world's best 3yo in 1957 having won many major races such as the Rosehill & Caulfield Guineas, AJC, VRC & Queensland Derbys as well as beating the older horses in the Caulfield Cup. Tommy Smith wanted to run him in the Melbourne Cup as a 3yo however Tulloch's owner was against it. He won the VRC Derby on the Saturday thrashing Prince Darius by 8 lengths before he was scratched from the Melbourne Cup on the Tuesday. Prince Darius ran and was 2nd beaten a neck ! Tulloch had 16 starts as a 3yo for 14 wins one 2nd one 3rd. His owners knocked back huge overseas offers to buy him. They planned to race him in England and the USA but he contracted a mystery stomach illness which robbed him of his 4 and 5yo years, more than likely his best years. He came back and won his 1st race almost 2 years after he got sick beating multiple Group 1 winner Lord. This time he was aimed at the Melbourne Cup. He won 3 lead up races incl the WFA championship of Australasia the WS Cox Plate prior to his Melbourne Cup run, where he carried 10 stone 1lb (64kg) and was given a terrible ride by his jockey Neville Selwood, who had him some 60 lengths behind the leader with 6 furlongs to go. He ran on very well to finish an unlucky 7th, his only unplaced run in his career. Tulloch was certainly a leviathan and deserves to be ranked much higher. He was a certainty to be top 10 had he not contracted his sickness, which cruelly robbed him of maybe his best racing years.

True Champion. 2nd only to Phar Lap in Australia.

Personal Ensign only ever raced against two males: in the three-horse field G1 Whitney in the slop at Saratoga in 1988. She beat the sprint champion of that year, Gulch, and one-time claimer turned hard-knocking handicapper King's Swan. This is an extremely thin exposure to the best males of her era and is a significant negative in assessing her place in U.S. racing history.

I am a Zenyatta fan first and foremost, but Rachel Alexandra had the greatest 3 year old season of any female horse in U.S. history. She showed incredible guts even when she raced at 4. She absolutely deserves to be on a list of all time greats. Along with Zenyatta and Ruffian, she should be ranked higher.

This very overrated filly was busy in New York, kentucky and Maryland ducking Zenyatta. It is not like Zenyatta can run in these sorry azzz restricted 3 year old races.

Rachel was an exceptional 3yo given her competition. And we'll never know how good she might have been but her 4yo races were not auspicious. Check out not only Zenyatta, but mares like Susan's Girl, who doesn't even make this list. She had a spectacular 3yo season, but one year does not make a "goat."

I love how thick some people are. People that argue that Rachel Alexandra is better than Zenyatta, well lets see shall we, have a look at how Rachel Alexandra beat Mine That Bird by then Have a look at how many horses beat him in the classic. And as for saying that Rachel Alexandra has more heart take a look at Zenyatta's only loss you will all see how much heart she has. Now I'm not taking anything away from Rachel Alexandra, I think she is a very good horse, all i'm saying is, is that there are some thick idiots (above) who are so one minded that even if they had raced and zenyatta cantered home they would still say Rachel Alexandra was better.

Love how some morons say she ducked zenyatta... When Rachel was a 3 yr old zenyatta camp stayed in California while Rachel was busy in new York, Kentucky, Maryland.... So who ducked who? And then finally after her grueling 3 yr old season which clearly ruined her, the moss's where finally ready to leave California and take on a broke down version of Rachel... Are u really to stupid to see what's really true....

Very overated horse. Her preakness which is supposed to be one of the greatest achievements of all time was against a rubbish field of which the best was a horse who hasn't won since the Derby. Also never dared to race against the great Zenyatta, shouldn't even be spoke about in the same breath.

I don't care what you say this mare has more heart than either one of those mares, even when she didn't win she was still fighting for the lead even though the race was over. In my opinion she should have at least been top 10

ducked racing zenyatta.... says it all

Are you telling me that rachel would beat either Sunday Silence or Easy Goes? No chance.

Should rank near Phar Lap and Tulloch as the most qualified Australasian racehorses for this list, with Wakeful not far behind them.

A true great of the turf and in the breeding barn as well. Unquestionably one of the truly great thoroughbreds in history

This horse was a giant of the turf. He raced on all 4 days of the AJC Autumn Carnival of 1889, 5 runs in the space of less than a week for 4 wins and a 2nd (yes, 2 races on the same day). If you thought that was good the next year he did it again, this time 5 runs for 5 wins !!! Thats just ridiculous. Carbine ran an unlucky 3rd in the great 6 furlong (1200m) sprint the VRC Newmarket Hcp, then finished 2nd in the Australian Cup over 2 mile & 2 furlongs (3800m) before winning 3 more races incl a 3 mile race (4800m) - all in the 1 week @ the 1889 VRC Autumn Carnival at Flemington. Did I mention he won a Melbourne Cup ? He set a weight carrying record in doing so which still stands (10 stone 5lb - 65.77kgs) and it was also the largest field to ever contest the race (39 starters). He was only once unplaced in 43 top class career starts. At least 30 of his 33 wins would now be graded as "black type" or Group races. As a champion sire Carbine sired the champion Wallace, who sired 2 Melbourne Cup winners. Carbine sired Spearmint, who sired Spion Kop, who sired Felstead. All 3 WON the English Derby. Spearmints son Spearhead sired 3yo champion & 1926 Melbourne Cup winner Spearfelt, who also became a top stallion. Spearmint also sired the champion broodmares Plucky Liege & Catnip whose decendants include leading American, English & European sires such as Sir Gallahad, Bois Roussel and Nearco, the sire of Nasrullah. Carbine's decendants have won more than half of all the Melbourne Cups. EVERY winner since 1953, except 1, has been a decendant. Carbine is a great-great grandsire of the 'immortal' Phar Lap, possibly the greatest horse to grace the turf. Carbine deserves his place in the pantheon of turf greats.

If there was an honour of greatest SIRE this horse would be numero uno.... fantastic horse in his own right also, running 2 and 3 races a day 3 races a week and still winning fantastic !!

Form, times and class at the old Tijuana track, and then at Agua Caliente, were very suspect. And the speedy import Carlaris (mentioned below) epitomizes this suspicion. After tearing up the old Tijuana track early in 1926, including setting the Coffroth Hcp record as a three-year-old (mentioned below), Carlaris was hailed as “another Man o’ War” and came east to prove it. But against the significantly greater caliber of horses he met in Chicago and then in New York he was a complete bust! Beating third- and fourth-rate horses in Mexico made Carlaris look like a world-beater, but he wasn’t. Phar Lap also looked like a world-beater against third- and fourth-raters in Mexico. …

Phar Lap’s “track record” at Agua Caliente also begs context. The AC track only opened on 28 Dec 1929, so it had been operating for just over two years when PL won the 10f AC Hcp on 20 Mar 1932 in 2:02 4/5, just 1/5 faster than Mike Hall had won the same race a year earlier. Although a track record (at a relatively new track), PL’s time was not a race record. Before 1930, the AC Hcp was known as the Coffroth Hcp and was raced at the old Tijuana track. There, Carlaris established the race record of 2:02 3/5 in 1926. And the year following PL’s win, Gallant Sir broke PL’s track record and equaled Carlaris’s race record by winning the AC Hcp in 2:02 3/5.

Much of the Phar Lap/Agua Caliente legend is riddled with unconscionable exaggerations. The Australian Racing Museum and Hall of Fame website claims that PL “beat the best in the world” in Mexico. Nonsense! His 10 opponents were NOWHERE NEAR the best in America at the time, much less the world. This is not a matter of opinion but of fact – see the posts below re the Average Earnings Per Start of PL’s opponents versus those of the best horses in the U.S. in 1932. Another great whopper is that the Agua Caliente Hcp was the richest race in the world to that time. Wrong! PL’s share of the $58,800 purse was $50,050. Anita Peabody’s share of the 1927 Belmont Futurity $100,000+ purse was $91,790. Each of the KY Derby winners from 1923 to 1932 inclusive (except 1931) earned more for his Derby win than PL did at Agua Caliente. Truth before sentiment, please!

Thank you for obliterating hype with fact about the opposition Phar Lap raced against at Agua Caliente. My research accords with yours - none of the horses in that field ranked ANYWHERE near the top horses in North America at the time. And you are right - six of his 10 opponents were what Aussies would call "scrubbers." I would argue that Hillenbrand flatters PL's opponents by classifying them as "middling."

The eminent researcher of North American thoroughbred racing in the 1930s, Laura Hillenbrand (author of the incomparable book “Seabiscuit”), lists Phar Lap as the “most overrated racehorse” of that time and place. Posting on the American Heritage website in May/June 2000, Hillenbrand describes Phar Lap’s competition at Agua Caliente as “middling” and says “[He] was never tested in American racing.” She goes on: “Dropping dead was bad for Phar Lap, but it did wonders for his image … Over time, accounts of his race [at Agua Caliente] became inconsistent and apparently fantastic, and his reputation grew … setting an American speed record for winning an overblown reputation.”

One of Charles Hatton’s many sage observations is most apt here: “Sentiment mists the lens of analysis.”

Best credentialed of Phar Lap’s opponents in the Agua Caliente Hcp were: Dr. Freeland, won the Preakness in ’29 and the Yorktown Hcp in ‘31; Spanish Play, fourth in the KY Derby in ’31, won the Louisiana Derby and runner-up in the Florida Derby and Arlington Classic; Reveille Boy, won the American Derby in ’30 and (subsequent to Agua Caliente) the Merchants & Citizens Hcp in ’32, runner-up in the Saratoga and Yorktown Hcps; and Marine, won the Saratoga Hcp in ’30, third in the Champagne in ’28 and runner-up in the Travers in ’29 and the Whitney in ‘30. Of Phar Lap’s 10 opponents Spanish Play ended his career with the highest Average Earnings Per Start (AEPS), $1,585. Of the others only Dr. Freeland ($1,096) and Reveille Boy ($1,020) had career AEPS of more than $1,000. And six of the 10 achieved AEPS of less than $250. By comparison, the career AEPS of some of the best horses racing in the US in ’32: Top Flight $17,243; Mate $15,091; Twenty Grand $10,472; Jamestown $9,983; Equipoise $6,639.

There is a fallacy about Phar Lap that defies facts, persists to this day – and needs to be corrected. It is widely espoused in the popular mythology of Phar Lap and is stated explicitly in one of the posts below: “Beat the best in the USA.” The 10 horses he beat in the 1932 Agua Caliente Hcp were, by that stage of their careers, mostly west coast winter handicappers at a time when west coast racing was in shambles due to California’s then ban on horse race betting. Even the Australian press acknowledged this fact at the time: “It is not customary for America’s best horses to race at Agua Caliente. A majority of them are spelling preparatory to going into training for the coming season.” (Sydney Morning Herald, 13 Jan ’32). And even after his win at Agua Caliente the Aussie press reported: “Phar Lap has yet to meet the real American cracks [the best] such as Twenty Grand.” (Northern Standard, 22 Mar ’32). Among the best horses racing in the US in ’32 were: Equipoise (Horse of the Year ’32 and ’33); Twenty Grand (Horse of the Year ’31); Jamestown (Co-Champion 2yo Colt ’30); Mate (arch rival of the three aforementioned); Top Flight (Champion 3yo Filly ’32); Tred Avon (Champion Mare ’32); etc. And none of these, or others close in caliber, was anywhere near Aqua Caliente in March of ’32.

To the poster who keeps saying he/she can’t believe how far down this list Phar Lap is (currently, 5/16/13, #29), there is no mystery to it. Phar Lap has been on this list for four years and during that time visitors to the site have voted him … #29. Get over it!

How does the OPINION of one individual who saw Phar Lap race at Agua Caliente improve his racing record or his standing relative to other horses? It is a non sequitur for you to suggest that because Dunne saw PL “in the flesh” his OPINION should prevail over those of others quite capable of assessing PL’s race record and viewing the Agua Caliente race on YouTube and, cumulatively, rendering a different OPINION.

Francis Dunne’s opinion has to be respected, but his is one expert’s view. When seven other distinguished American horse racing experts voted in 1999 to determine Blood-Horse magazine’s Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century, they ranked Phar Lap #22.

slow and overrated.

Overrated way beyond his relative ability.

If there is one Australasian horse who qualifies for inclusion in the Top 50 thoroughbreds of all time, worldwide, it is Phar Lap. Currently (8 July '12) this list has Black Caviar at #14 and Phar Lap at #15. That's truly absurd and reflects that many people voting here must be doing so based on uninformed hype rather than on rational assessment of the respective horses’ racing records.

Phar Lap was good, but there have been better, most of which are listed above.

Another horse that has been hyped-up. Would never have been able to cope with the modern thoroughbred. Probably top 30 at best. Frankel would have galloped him into the ground. Phar Lap was nothing special.

By any objective reading of their records Phar Lap was an immeasurably better horse than the grossly overrated Black Caviar and thus has to rate well ahead of her on any list of greatest horses. This is obscene, a perversion of logic and reason, for her to be rated ahead of him on this list.

I also feel that Phar Lap should be a bit higher on the list. It is a terrible shame that he was killed before he could race in the U.S.

Phar lap should be much higher on the list

from a mile on Frankel would be coughing and spluttering as he ate Phar Lap's dust. One horse has 'done it' and one horse still has it all to do

In a 6 - 9 furlong race, Frankel would most likely best Phar Lap beacuse he is obvioulsy the faster "sprinter". Until Frankel proves he can run strong at distances greater than 9 furlongs, I agree you simply CANNOT rate Frankel ahead of Phar Lap.

Difficult to compare all the great horses of different eras but Pharlap is the biggest freak of them all. Who is to say who is the best but if you were to pick a horse, against all the horses listed here in any race, capable of missing the start and rounding the whole field and still winning running wide with ears pricked it would have to be Phar lap. A lot of the comments are about records , times etc... Phar Lap was at a completely different level altogether where handicappers put the weights on to stop him like trains. Black Caviar for example might have lengths on Frankel but she isn't even in the ball park of Par Lap and Frankel , based Phar laps deeds, Phar lap would beat him and have a photo session by the time Frankel got to the winning post!! It is hard to compare different champions of different eras but with horse racing I would be clear and have no doubt, if I had to back a horse in this field to save my life by winning it would unwaiveringly be Phar lap

If Phar Lap had been restricted to WFA or set weights races he would have won 40 - 50 races in a row. They say weight stops trains well it only stopped Phar Lap once, the 1931 Melb Cup, when everybody except his greedy owner wanted him to be scratched. It was to be his only unplaced run from his last 35 starts, which incl 32 wins. His next race start was to be his last. He won the worlds richest race at his first time on dirt, with a split hoof and breaking the track record in the process. He was than poisoned by illegal bookies who stood to lose thousands as he was essentially unbeatable. What a horse.

NO HE ISN'T ,AND NO WE DON'T!

great horse...sad end....happens much too often..ie ruffian , barbaro, landaluce, go for wand, pine island, and so many others....this one esp cruel because it may have been deliberate..

The guy who wrote that some of the horses in the top 10 in this list shouldn't be in the top 50 obviously knows absolutely nothing about thoroughbred racing and should stick to his area of expertise: Jackass racing!

Whilst Phar Lap was an undoubted champion, he is remember more fondly due to the time he raced, i.e the great depression. Those that saw both Phar Lap and Carbine race hold no doubt that Carbine was the superior horse and the only real question is whether he comes in 2nd or 3rd in Australian greats with Tulloch. For those that rate Makybe Diva so high you are out of your mind. She isn't even the best mare to race in this country with that honor going to Sunline, with Black Caviar closing very quickly. Zenyatta is also rated incredibly high for a horse who basically only defeated other mares. A notable absentee from this list is the Japanese champion Deep Impact, the greatest horse I have seen in the flesh (those that judge him on his loss and disqualification in the Arc do not know much about horse racing and his problems leading into the race) although that may change with Black Caviar.

Just amazing to read the comments above, as well as comments about other horses in the top 10 who don't deserve to be in the top 50. Is there some kind of Eastern Hemisphere envy for Western Hemisphere horses going on here? Phar Lap lost his first race, only won 13 of 20 as a 3 year old, and set no world records. His heart was 13.6 lbs, which sounds about right and shows he wasn't in the class of the thoroughbreds with large-heart genes. You have to have a super heart (16 lbs. and up) to compete with the greats of the sport.

No one person compiled this list. It is compiled by visitors to the site, like you. If you want to add Northerly, add him. And what you perceive as a “bias” in favor of American and English horses has more to do with the incontestable fact that for the past century or so the overwhelming majority of the world’s best thoroughbreds have been bred in, and have raced in, Europe and the US. That this list should reflect that is not bias, but reality.

Absolutely should be higher on the list, this mare was a machine that consistently silenced critics and opposition. The McKees weren't shy of testing their mare and pitting her against the best.

YES to the post below rating Sunline superior to Black Caviar. Compare their records and and there is no argument.

Sunline has a far superior record, qualitatively, to Black Caviar and should rate well above her. Although she never took on the crème de la crème of Europe and the US, at least Sunline repeatedly raced against THE BEST in Australia and NZ and repeatedly beat them. Also, her win in HK and her game placing in Dubai add to her international credentials. She never ducked the "big boys" to race in fraudulent G1s in Adelaide!!!

Champion mare. 2 times Cox Plate and Doncaster Hcp winner. 13 times Group 1 winner. Won Group 1's in 3 countries. She won 32 races. She was also a 3 time Australian Horse of the Year & a 4 time NZ Horse of the Year. She was a beauty

She should be higher on the list the GREAT MARE

I was just 16 when Persian War won his first Champion Hurdle in 1968, and he went on to win two more Champion Hurdles. I have seen all the Champion Hurdle winners since then , but none of them were as good as Persian War, in my opinion.

Top class. Never seen better.

Superlative hurdler who was probably the greatest of all time. Came to sad end running in low grade races, but at his best he was an absolutely fantastic horse.

Has no equal where hurdlers are concerned. His record speaks for itself. Most fair-minded people recognise that Persian War, when fit, was in a different class to any other hurdler.

Brilliant hurdler from the 1960s who is one of the greatest ever seen in Britain.

Greatest hurdler I have ever seen. There will never be another like him.

Probably the greatest hurdler ever to have raced in the British Isles ,if not the world. Most knowledgeable racing pundits rate Persian War as the best ,and I for one totally agree.

We will never see another hurdler who compares with Persian War, he was simply the best there has ever been. Sir Ken was the only other hurdler who would have given Persian War a race.

Awesome hurdler. He was the best, no argument.

The best hurdler ever to race on a British racecourse. No other hurdler comes close to PW's record especially when you factor in all the problems this great horse had to endure in his career.

I rate Persian War as the greatest hurdler I ever saw run or am ever likely to see. Istabraq, Night Nurse and Monksfield were terrific hurdlers, but not in the Persian War class. That's my opinion anyway.

Persian War was trained close to where I live ,but I never got to see him except on television when he won his three Champion Hurdles. I know that he is regarded as the best hurdler ever.

I agree that Persiaan War was the best hurdler but Golden Cygnet was brilliant and could have been the best hurdler ever if he had not been tragically killed in the Scottish ChampioN Hurdle.

There have been many great hurdlers down the years,far too numerous to mention here,but my idea of the top 5 are: 1 Persian War 2 Sir Ken 3 Night Nurse 4 Istabraq 5 Monksfield

Great hurdler,probably the best there's ever been. His owner, Henry Alper, didn't deserve to own such a wonderful racehorse, he ran him when he wasn't fit and too soon after recovering from terrible injuries. With a more compassionate owner Persian War might have won two more Champion Hurdles. I loved the horse,he was a BIG favourite of mine.

You got the name of the race wrong pal. It was the Lonsdale Hurdle at Kempton and not the Rendlesham Hurdle, but the rest of the information is right.

I recently read the story of PersianWar's racing career and believe me the injuries that this horse sustained during his racing career would have stopped a rhinoceros. I urge anyone who wants to know what a truly tough racehorse Persian War was to read the book. No other racehorse had anything like the injuries that Persian War suffered and he still won 3 Champion Hurdles and numerous other top hurdle races AFTER those injuries. A truly was a great hurdler of that there is absolutely no doubt.

Total rubbish, Persian War was a far better horse than Istabraq who beat absolutely nothing in his three Champion Hurdle wins. Persian War had to overcome terrible injury problems which would have curtailed most other hurdlers careers, but such was his greatness that in his first run of the season carrying 12 stone 7lbs on bottomless going he won with the Rendlesham Hurdle at Kempton, a feat that Istabraq was NEVER asked to perform. Istabraq the best Champion Hurdler? I've never read such rubbish!

Are you kidding. He is nothing on the immortal Istabraq who would have won 4 champion hurdles if foot and mouth hadn't stopped the festival. 10xbetter than Persian War

I've seen all the great hurdlers,but none of them can hold a candle to Persian War,a truly brilliant hurdler at his best.

Dual classic winner ( Epsom Derby and Two Thousand Guineas) and also defeated Sir Ivor in the Eclipse Stakes as a 4-year old in 1968. Not one of the greats though.

Shouldn't be on this list as he was just an average winner of the Epsom Derby.

Great chaser of the 1930s and one of the top 5 of all time. Won the Grand National carrying top weight, which proved what a fantastic chaser he really was.

Truly great steeplechaser probably one of the greatest there has ever been. Only Arkle and perhaps Flyingbolt could match him.

His record was phenomenal. There will never be another horse who will win 5 CGCs.

Without a doubt!

2008 Epsom Derby winner who later sired Dawn Approach to win the 2013 2,000 Guineas.

Correcting my typo above: Curlin (not Cullin).

Could only manage 7th place in the Arc. Just an average Derby winner.

114 in this list? You must be kidding!. If this horse had not been raced in the shadow of Frankel he would be in the top ten.

In addition to winning the KY Derby and Belmont Stakes, and the FL Derby, at 3, Swale was an outstanding multiple Stakes-winning two-year-old. He finished off the board only once in his short carer (14 - 9-2-2) and that was in the Preakness.

There was more to Arazi than just his jaw-dropping performance in the BC Juvenile. He had won six of his seven starts on grass in France before displaying his magic on dirt in the BCJ. Among his French wins were the Prix Robert Papin (G2) and the Prix Morny, Prix de la Salamandre and Grand Critérium (all G1s). This led to the rare distinction of him being named European Horse of the Year for 1991, as well as both European and US Champion Two-Year-Old Colt. It is a tragedy that he raced at three (and stunk up his reputation) because it seems he never fully recovered from knee surgery at the end of his juvenile campaign.

The Breeders cup performance was the most amazing race I have ever seen real pity it went bad as a 3 year old

and Arazi runs right by him!

The Arazi performance has to be seen to be believed truly staggering... what a shame it all went sour as a 3 yr old

His performance as a 2-year old will NEVER be equalled. Fantastic!

Recently deceased and one of the great 2m champion chases if not this century but of all time.

A great 2m Champion chaser from the early-mid 2000s.

Famously won the 1989 Cheltenham Gold Cup. One of the true National Hunt legends. Also won four King George VI chases. Surpassed recently by Kauto Star with five.

What can you say about Dessie that hasn't already been said? To watch Desert Orchid jump a fence was simply awesome. He was a standing dish at Kempton and always gave 100 per cent. I was over the moon when he capped a great career by winning the Cheltenham Gold Cup. Brillant! Brilliant! Brilliant!

This horse probably heads a lot of people's(well in UK anyway) favorite horse of all timel lists but as to greatest,I dont think so.Was Dessie rated top ten in NH?

Wonderful chaser and along with Red Rum probably the best loved chaser of modern times, and rightly so.

Loved this horse.Most beautiful horse not in an imposing way like Secretariat or Zenyatta but just breathtakingly beautiful.

Dessie to all horse racing fans will be remembered for being the best looking horse of all time and the horse with the most heart of all time and it is a tragedy that this incredible horse didn't win more than 1 gold cup.

Arguably the best hurdler there has ever been. Would have beaten most of the horses that won the Champion Hurdle from 1971 onwards. Only Persian War would his equal, in my opinion. Great horse.

One of the greatest hurdlers of all time and won 16 races in succession, including 3 Champion Hurdles. Sir Ken also won a number of races over fences. Wonderful horse.

Top class hurdler who deserves his place in this list after his fantastic record in the Champion Hurdle in which he notched up 3 successive victories in the early 1950s.

Sir Ken raced long before I was born and in the days before they showed the top races on television so not many people got to see him race. Even so his record was as good as anu hurdler before or since and he is rightly regarded as one of the best hurdlers ever.

Yes this fellow was a truly brilliant hurdler,one of the all time greats.

My highlight of Denman's career was the 2009 Hennessy Gold Cup. The horse led home a 1-2-3 for trainer Paul Nicholls while winning the 2008 Cheltenham Gold Cup.

what a horse won me some money

The British horseracing public have been treated to some truly memorable chasing experiences over the past 5 or 6 years and Denman has provided many of those memories. Denman won two Hennessy Gold Cups at Newbury conceding huge amounts of weight a feat which had not been done since the days of Arkle. Denman also has the most consistent record in the Cheltenham Gold Cup winning once and being placed a couple of times. Wonderful chaser!

The Tank, Unstoppable until he underwent the surgeons knife.. never the same again... 1 of my all time favourites 2008 gold cup what a performance.. timeform rating should be alot higher

I totally agree. What a shame he is injured and is out of action for the rest of the season. I don't think he will race again.

To put it simply, the Frankel of staying hurdling. A class act.

20 consecutive wins? We now have to wait another season for the great staying hurdler due to injury but he'll be back.

Yes, that's right and he will win more races this season. I can see Big Buck's notching up win number 20 before the end of the current jumping season. Even if he never won another raace ,he is still the best staying hurdler we have ever seen in Europe.

It is now 18 out of 18 as Big Buck's won at Newbury on 1st December 2012.

The best long distance hurdler of all time. Big Buck's has won four World Hurdles and is unbeaten in his last seventeen races over hurdles. Cannot wait to see him in action again on November 31st at Newbury.

One of my favourites and a National Hunt legend.

Secretariat came from a time in American racing when horses were routinely fed steroids. Some records set by East German athletes in the 70s and 80s still stand. Frankel best better opposition, more emphatically and never lost. It would have been could to see him run a longer distance, but...

Big Buck's is probably the greatest horse to jump a fence since the days of Arkle, it's just unbelievable what he has achieved since the last time he was beaten in a race, which was 4 years ago. He will be 10 on New Year's Day, but I reckon he can stretch his winning streak to at least 20 wins. I absolutely love this horse.

Top class hurdler, the best I have ever seen.

The best staying hurdler there has ever been and the biggest drawing card in National Hunt racing. His record of 17 consecutive wins is an all time NH record and he will probably add more wins to that record next season.

Simply the best hurdler ever seen in Britain over a distance in excess of 2 miles 4 furlongs. To win 17 consecutive races takes a really special horse , and that is exactly what Big Buck's is.

Sensational hurdler who has no equal in hurdle races over 2m4f-3m. Cannot wait until next season when he races again.

Won his last 17 races and has beaten all the top staying hurdlers for the last 4 years. This horse is a fantastic hurdler and even though he will be 10 years old next year he will still be notching up more wins, which will probably include a 5th World Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival.

Great long distance hurdler. Generally regarded as the best staying hurdler of all time .

WHAT A TRULY BRILLIANT STAYING HURDLER THIS HORSE IS. NOTHING HAS BEEN ABLE TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR HIM SINCE 2008. WITHOUT ANY DOUBT HE IS THE FINEST HURDLER IN EUROPE,IF NOT IN THE WORLD, OVER 3MILES +.

With the exception of the 11 winners of the Triple Crown, Real Quiet probably came closer than any other horse to winning America's three classics. He won the KY Derby and the Preakness but was beaten a nose in the Belmont. Won at G1 level each year he raced (2, 3 and 4). But, his near miss in the Triple Crown notwithstanding, he was never consistently dominant enough to be regarded as a genuinely great horse.

As a two-year-old the U.S.-bred J. O. Tobin won two Group II stakes on the grass in England, the Richmond and Champagne. He returned to U.S. for his three-year-old campaign, the highlight of which was his stunning 16-length victory over Seattle Slew in the GI Swaps Stakes on the dirt at Hollywood Park. Fresh off his clean sweep of the Triple Crown, it was Slew’s first ever defeat. At 4, under the tutelage of Laz Barrera, J. O. won six graded stakes races in the U.S., from 6f to 9f, on grass and on dirt, and was voted co-Champion Sprinter (with Dr. Patches).

Only three horses beat the great Seattle Slew: Dr. Patches (by a neck in the ’78 Paterson Hcp); Exceller (by a nose in the ’78 Jockey Club Gold Cup); and J. O. Tobin (by 16 lengths in the ’77 Swaps Stakes).

i dont think anyone forgot him if he raced with big red

A joke right? Higher rater than the likes of Tom Fool, Dr. Fager, COunt Fleet and Sunday Silence? Please. Sham isn't even in the top 5 foals of 1970. Forego, Secretariat, Ancient Title, Stop the Music, Desert Vixen, Dahlia, Allez France, La Prevoyante were all better or at minimum as good. Also Mr. Prospector came from that crop.

That's why he is 29th not 2nd.

this is the most UNDER-RATED and under-appreciated horse of all time...he was also the most unfortunate because of the year of his birth...if he had been born almost any other yr...prob triple crown of US winner...he still ran the 2nd fastest kentucky derby EVER....even if the 'powers that be' chose only to record winning times....that means he had the speed to beat 10 of 11 TC of US.....he beat the 11th another day..... now i love BIG RED...all 3 of them....i rank them sec 1st, phar lap 2nd, and MOW 3RD..but sham never gets the respect he deserves.....also, i have read the "xfactor" literature...and they talk about it being an advantage...thankyou eclipse.. then they talk about phar lap...should have listened to the aussies sooner...we know eclipse, phar lap and secretariat all had that special gene for the big heart....but SHAM HAD IT TOO..and you could almost see his big heart breaking in the 1973 belmont

HE couldn't beat Big Red!

r.i.p the god of cheltenam. amazing horse.

Another great chaser who graced the racecourses of Britain and whose jumping gave so much pleasure to all those people who watched him notch up three Cheltenham Gold Cups. A fantastic feat by a truly wonderful chaser. I feel privileged to have seen him in action. Great memories of a fabulous horse.

Come on... Best war horse ever, maybe? Just the most famous. Let's get him out of the list so black caviar can move up. 19 from 19, she is amazing... Watch out frankel!

And what about Black Beauty?

What about Trigger?

I'm going to include Silver and Champion.

Why not include Mr Ed in this list as well?

A good filly, but hardly among the greats.

He may not be the best, but he sure does have heart. He is incredibly better than a lot of wannabes. Smarty Jones is on this list, so he is one of the best.

Good racer but not near the best

He was beaten by Down Under hype job So You Think in the 2011 Eclipse Stakes. That detracts from his otherwise worthy claims to greatness, such as his record Derby win.

His subsequent form makes him nothing special.

This list is titled “Best RACEhorses of All Times.” The title says what it means and means what it says. If you add siring as a factor you diminish the RACING accomplishments of geldings and mares. See my post below under the Darley Arabian. If you want to start a separate list titled “Best SIRES of All Times,” then start one; don’t try to corrupt this list.

A few points about Eclipse: This list is titled “Best Racehorses of all Time,” so horses should be rated on their race records, not their subsequent impacts as sires or broodmares. Eclipse’s race record was certainly amazing, but horse racing was so, so different in the latter half of the 18th century to what it has become in the centuries since. For example, to win a race a horse often had to win multiple heats of that race on the same day. In modern times what horses do at two, and especially at three, are often major factors in determining their greatness or otherwise. Eclipse raced only at five and six. And one of the time-honored measures of a horse’s greatness is the depth of competition he or she defeated. If I read them correctly, several online posts of Eclipse’s race record indicate he won all 18 of his starts, but eight were walkovers and another was a match race. So in half of his 18 starts he beat a total of one horse! And again, if I read his race record correctly, in all 18 starts he defeated a total of 20 horses – that’s an average of 1.1 opponents per start.

duh secretariat is , and well, my point is if he is so great then how is eclipse not on record times in the triple crowns and other races? hmm? and how come he doesn't have he own movie and statue like secretariat does? i mean, you should have even compared secretariat with him or any other horse

In 1970, the Royal Veterinary College published a calculation that 80 per cent, and not 100 per cent, of all thoroughbreds had Eclipse among their forebears, but what that has to do with his inclusion in this list heaven only knows.

Eclipse certainly has very valid claims to be the greatest racehorse of all time, but I wonder if he would have possessed the speed to cope with the modern thoroughbred.

Unquestionably she was a great mare – against mares! She should not have won Horse of the Year in 2002 because, to that point in her career, she had never raced against a male. And later when she did compete against top males (in the Metropolitan and the BC Classic) she failed. She was no Regret, or Dahlia, or Allez France, or All Along, or Goldikova, etc. – all of whom had multiple victories against some of the best males of their eras.

Mischief makers have tampered with this list? You mean others have voted contrary to your opinions? That's what this site is all about!

Apologies. I intended to post this under Dr. Patches but inadvertently posted it under the horse next to him, J. O. Tobin .......... Dr. Patches doesn’t belong on this list; he never won at G1 level and won only 17 of his 47 starts. But he shared the Eclipse award for US Champion Sprinter with J. O. Tobin in 1978. And in the Paterson Hcp at the Big M that year he beat Seattle Slew – a claim only two other horses can make (J. O. Tobin and Exceller).

Won 9 of his races easily, and the Travers Stakes he should not have even run in. American Pharoah was shipped too much before than and plus a bad ride by the jockey results in barely losing. Ran one of the fastest Belmont Stakes ever, and people have Dr. Patches and Silver Charm over American Pharoah. Come on, people. The greatest horse of the 21st century so far, by crushing his opponents and not even have to be trying to do so. I would put American Pharoah next to some horse like Seattle Slew.

First Grand Slam winning horse. He was the best horse in the last 35 years to come around, and he had such a beautiful and fluid stride unlike any other thoroughbred.

Horse the year at age 3, and the most accomplished 3 yr old in quite some time. Some say he is a 21 st century Secretariat of sorts.

First Grand Slam winner in the history of the sport. Most popular horse of the 21st century.

Great 21st century and all time racehorse. He beat older horses in his one and only attempt and did it in a dominating fashion, setting a track record. Will always be remembered as a Triple Crown winner and 1st Grand Slam winner of horse racing.

great modern race horse with a special personality and great durability allowing him to win the first horse racing grand slam.

Beat one of the toughest fields in the Breeders Cup Classic by almost 7 lengths. Amazing stride and cruising speed.

Top horse of the last 30 years, at least since the Breeders Cup era.

Best 21st century horse. grand slam is an amazing achievement. His durability was like a throwback to a horse from a bygone era.

He beat older horses in his very last race at the Breeders Cup Classic. Truly deserves to be placed among the all time great horses ever.

First grand slam winner

Best horse of the young 21st century and had one of the greatest 3 year old seasons ever similar to Secretariat's 3 year old season. He is also the winner of the Breeders cup classic making him the 1st horse to complete the official horse racing Grand Slam.

Recently achieved the Triple Crown in the United States. Horse of a lifetime.

As of August 2016, has won two Cheltenham Champion chases (2013 & 2016).

This horse, to win 3 Grade ones at Cheltenham, Aintree and most recently Punchestown is incredible in a space of five weeks.

Quite possibly, the best 2m chaser ever. Multiple Grade 1 wins so far include the Queen Mother Champion Chase and most recently Aintree's Melling Chase.

Top class chaser who, with any luck , will be the the biggest name in National Hunt racing in Britain for the next few years. Sprinter Sacre is a really exciting prospect.

With the likes of Sprinter Sacre and Big Buck's to look forward to this winter, this jumping season promises to be one of the most exciting in many years.

Sprinter Sacre is the most exciting chaser we have seen in Britain in the past 20 years and could be one of the greats. He is a brilliant jumper and gives the impression that he is only travelling at half speed in his races. He looks to have a great future.

Great British hurdler, in top 5 of all time.

Brilliant hurdler one of the very best and a very difficult horse to pass when in front. Won 2 Champion Hurdles and then showed how truly versatile he was by switching successfully to chasing.

It is an exercise in inanity, irrelevancy and self-abuse to attempt to judge and compare racehorses on what they WOULD have done, SHOULD have done or COULD have done. We can only judge and compare them on what they DID.

the fact is barbaro died doing what he loved. it does not matter if bernadini was, or is better than him. bernadini did not capture the hearts of millions like barbaro or any other fallen race horse. not like ruffian, pine island, chrasmatic, northan dancer, eight belles, man o war,sea bird 2, go for wand, landseer, goerge washington. ect barbaro is well know for the brack down and the fact he was good at what he did. barnadini was propabaly the stronger of the two but barbaro was better, by far.

Bernadini wasn't even in the Derby that year. Plus, had Barbaro not broken down, He'd have taken the triple crown. He was able to run all day. Up close, he was astounding. I was working on the backside on Derby day 2006 and WOW...what a horse, Bobby was!

Im going to get slated for saying this because it was the dreaded race that this horse broke down. But, I actually think Bernardini was a better racehorse. Yet he's not even on the list. Not taking anything away from Barbaro, his Derby win was very impressive and obviously he was unbeaten up to then so he was very good but like I said I beleive Bernardini was the better horse.

this is a disgrace - if he hadnt broke down in the preakness he would have been drubbed by bernardini (how is he ahead of slew?)

Absurd. This is Martyr Syndrome again. He may have been good but he has next to no proof of real greatness.

Barbaro never lived long enough to see how good he was. Winning the Derby by no means makes him best next to any horse. A very foolish statement with all due respect.

Only a broken leg stopped Charismatic from winning the Triple Crown. He'd won the Derby and Preakness and led inside the final furlong of the Belmont before fading late to finish third. Memorably, Chris Antley pulled him up quickly after the finish line, jumped off and discovered why he'd faded late in the race - he'd broken his near front leg in two places!

Whoever added Pour Moi to this list refers to him (above) as female. Did he have a sex change?

Not sure what Pour Moi is doing on this list. Only just beat a very weak field in the Derby and did nothing else of serious note.

*he

I think that Pour Moi will win the Prix de l'arc de Triomphe in October, Longchamps will suit his style of racing much better than Epsom.

Pour Moi's Epsom Derby win bears a really uncanny resemblance to another horse's Derby win 50 years ago in 1961 called Psidium,who also came from last to first. Even stranger Psidium was also ridden by a Frenchman, Roger Poincelet. History repeating itself?

Fabre*

It is worth noting that Timeform's "Racehorses of 2012" annual describes Australian racing's international reputation as being in transition from "something of a racing backwater."

Not that I consider this list definitive by any means, but which of this list’s top 5 horses (at 7 May ’13: Secretariat, Man o’ War, Sea Bird, Ribot, Kelso) would you replace with Kingston Town – and on what basis??? Your proposition is laughable!

“Definitely in the top 5 racehorses of all time,” asserts the post immediately below. This is an astonishing statement! Yes, Kingston Town was a great racehorse … but he only ever raced in Australia. By and large, the best thoroughbred racehorses in the world are bred in, and race in, Europe and North America. So, to be rated among the “top 5 racehorses of all time” a horse would need to have beaten the best of its era in either (or both) of those elite centers of horse racing. Kingston Town never did. It’s a bit like saying so-and-so was one of the top 5 tennis players of all time because he won nearly everything there was to win in Australia … but he never showed up at Wimbledon or the US Open!

I totally agree with the previous poster. Enough said.

Re the previous post: "...would have beaten any horse in the world." Come on! You can't rate horses on what they WOULD have done, COULD have done or SHOULD have done. You can only rate them on what they DID. Kingston Town was a great horse - but in Australia only. He never went to the Arc or to the Breeders' Cup or to the Japan Cup, etc. It's wankerism for you to postulate what you THINK he WOULD have done against the world's best. If you want to be the Pope you have to go to Rome. If you want to beat the best horses in the world you have to race in the US and/or Europe.

was an outstanding Australian bred Thoroughbred racehorse who won a record three Cox Plates and 11 other Group One races in a career spanning from 1979 to 1982. In 1980 he was awarded the honour of being the Australian Champion Racehorse of the Year.

Well said!

To say “she beat the world’s best” in winning her three Melbourne Cups – the third one with a considerable assist from the Flemington track watering staff! – is typical of the ignorant, inflated, non-nuanced drivel that so many of my fellow Aussies engage in when they try to talk about WORLD thoroughbred racing. (See Black Caviar). Having a lend of yourself in private is one thing but doing so in public is neither edifying nor flattering.

GET REAL!!! 'Should easily be up there with Carbine and Phar Lap'. That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard regarding horse racing. Makybe Diva was a HANDICAPPER for goodness sake. Carbine and Phar Lap would have given Makybe Diva a furlong start and beaten her by the same distance.

Moderate handicapper who would have been completely outclassed if she had run in the top races. Just like most Australian horses , over -hyped.

Who declared the Melbourne Cup "the unofficial staying world championship"?

She needs to be higher!!!!!

Great horse no doubt, first two cups, outstanding. Unfortunately the fact they watered the track so heavily to benefit her and ruin chances of others makes the third cup pointless, in my humble opinion. Sunline still beats her as Australasia's best mare in recent times

In three Melbourne Cups, beat 23x3=69 (less 1 or 2 horses that were scratched for those races). That's pretty good.

Agree. O'Brien slaughtered him in what turned out to be his last start. A most unfortunate exit from the racing stage for a very impressive young horse.

A terrible, terrible ride by Joseph O’Brien to get Australia beaten in the Irish Champion Stakes. Compare the trip O’Brien gave Australia with the trip Ryan Moore gave the winner The Grey Gatsby and it was a case of a champion jockey on a good horse beat a not-so-good jockey on a champion horse. O’Brien gave away four or five lengths to the grey yet was beaten only a neck.

Wow! So Australia has two sires - "by" Ouija Board and "by" Galileo??? Surely he's by Galileo "out of" Ouija Board ... (unless Ouija Board had a sex change).

Now retired but one of the all time great 2m hurdlers. Twenty two Grade ones including two champion hurdles (2011 and 2013).

It is now 22 Grade Ones as of February 2015. Should this horse line up in the Champion Hurdle, it will be a fifth consecutive appearance.

21 Grade Ones as of 29th December 2014.

Hurricane Fly has now won 20 Grade Ones overall as of 17th November 2014.

It is now 19 out of 19. Won a fourth Irish Champion Hurdle in succession on 26th January 2014.

18 Grade Ones so far as of 29th December 2013, a new record in National Hunt history.

Winner of both the 2011 and 2013 Champion Hurdle but has won numerous Grade 1 races in Ireland.

Won six 'Mares' championship victories in a row between 2009 and 2014.

What makes you think that anyone is interested in your opinion as to which horse is better than another. Just from reading your post, you give me the impression that you are full of your own importance.

Perhaps you can explain what your thread has to do with Hedgehunter.

Impossible to rate horses of different generations, but human nature to try. There was an Australian horse named Tulloch which many good judges rated as better than Phar Lap. Interesting if true, yet most of the world does not know his name. The Kiwis had one named Kindergarten which many rated above Phar Lap, again interesting if true. Ribot had an unequalled record. Secretariat was also a grand horse; but trying to rank these marvellous animals ( as do Timeform etc) is irrational. At present Frankel is ranked in the top three or four ever, and that on the basis of easy wins against (mostly) second grade horses. It is a forlorn quest. I have been wasting time at it for most of eighty years - oldec.

Rated at 136, Black Caviar is the equal 76th best flat racing horse in Timeform’s very limited history. Moreover, within its limited scope Timeform rates seven sprinters superior to Black Caviar. They are: Abernant rated 142, Windy City 142, Pappa Fourway 139, Dayjur 137, Moorestyle 137, Princely Gift 137 and Right Boy 137.

To the poster approximately 14 posts down (deservedly in very light ink) who takes umbrage at Australia being described as "a backwater of international racing," and invokes what he interprets as Timeform's high regard for Australian horses: I wonder if he read in Timeform's "Racehorses of 2012" annual that it views Australian racing's reputation, internationally, as being in transition from "something of a racing backwater" ?

Big fish in a backwater.

It looks like people woke up to this hype job.

Now 23 from 23, but has been superbly managed (placed0 - has beaten 1 top horse "Hay List". In Australia we probably breed the best sprinters globally (at tyhe moment) - and she is the best of a very moderate lot. Have I seen better than her as a sprinter in Australia.? Yes, vain would have "brained" her - that is AUSI for "thrashed" her. A lot of these bloggers are either young or ignorant or probably both. Get out into the world please people - AUSI produces some crack horses, but they HAVE TO COMPETE at more that selected favourite distances!! Is she in the top 100 in the owrld. I very much doubt whther she warrants being in the top 1000 in the wold.

I’m sure if Moonlight Cloud had won the Breeders’ Cup Mile we would have been deafened by the shrill shrieks of the “Black Caviarists.” But the French mare – at peak fitness and with her whole 2012 campaign aimed at this one race, unlike when she came within a nostril of beating Black Caviar at Ascot – had her rear end kicked, finishing more than 8 lengths behind the authoritative winner Wise Dan. And so we haven’t heard a peep from them! I thought they might offer up having to travel from France (without a pressure suit!) as an excuse for her but I guess even they could figure out that NO ONE has a better record in the BC Mile than Moonlight Cloud’s trainer Freddie Head who has won it five times, as jockey and trainer, with mares from France. The lack of depth in that Diamond Jubilee field is exposed again.

The poster immediately below has created a straw man argument in asking: “How … can you knock unbeaten records that stretch over several seasons.” Most people posting anything other than the shallow, mindless, often-chauvinistic orthodoxy re Black Caviar are not knocking the mare’s unbeaten record – they’re knocking the ignorant, historically-illiterate, fact-lite hyperbole and hype being posted about her (as highlighted two posts below). Apparently it’s fine for people here to assert totally fact-less inanities – such as the post, “best mare ever to race” – but anyone posting actual comparative analyses (see posts re Wakeful, Flight, Wenona Girl, Abernant, Tulloch, Sunline, etc.) is mindlessly knocking Black Caviar’s unbeaten record. Wow!

She’s in free fall. A pity for the horse, a consistent high-level sprinter. But karma for the neophytes, rubes and galoots who have hyped her so hopelessly beyond her record. From the array of ridiculous comments below: “THE highest rated sprinter in history” (simply untrue; Timeform, which measures only a sliver of horse racing history, rates Abernant at 142, thus a whopping six pounds superior to BC); “BEST sprinter the world has ever seen” and “THE greatest sprinter we have ever seen” (see previous; she’s well below the best sprinter Timeform has seen in its relatively short history and its especially brief period of trying to rate thoroughbreds internationally); “SHE has nothing more to prove” (have you heard of the Breeders’ Cup?); “THE current fastest horse on the planet” (a clear manifestation of excessive self-abuse); “THE greatest sprinter Australia has produced” (see Wakeful, Flight and Wenona Girl, and that’s just three superior Aussie sprinting mares!). The sad reality is, this honest mare deserves more honest (and better informed) advocates.

Along with Wakeful two other Australian mares have significantly superior records to Black Caviar. (1) FLIGHT: Her 24 victories included wins at the highest levels of competition at two, three, four, five and six over distances ranging from 7f to 12f. In addition to winning the Champagne Stakes (8f) against colts at two she won the classic AJC Oaks (12f) at three and won Australia’s w.f.a. championship Cox Plate (10f) at five and again at six. Among the horses she beat were two of Australian racing’s all-time greats Shannon and Bernborough and two other champions of her era Caulfield Cup winner Royal Gem and Melbourne Cup winner Russia. These four horses were all exported to the US where each sired Stakes winners. Before going to stud Shannon won, among other US Stakes races, the G1 Hollywood Gold Cup. Royal Gem sired Kentucky Derby winner Dark Star. (2) WENONA GIRL: Among her 27 victories were 15 wins in races now classified as G1 which the Australian Racing Museum and Hall of Fame says is “unmatched by any other mare in Australian racing history.” These wins included the AJC Sires Produce (7f) against colts at two, the Rosehill Guineas (10f) against colts and the classic AJC Oaks (12f) at three and the Lightning Stakes (5f) against Australasia’s elite sprinters at five and six. She beat the great Sky High (later exported to stud in the US) five times and other top horses of her era including: Persian Lyric, Fine And Dandy, Time And Tide, Proud Miss, Kilsherry, etc. My point is: Black Caviar is a very good Australian sprinting mare. Wakeful, Flight and Wenona Girl were that - and much more! And they raced against much tougher competition!

Black Caviar is not even the greatest race mare in Australia - let alone the world, as many of her boosters here and elsewhere contend. Unquestionably the greatest mare in Australia was Wakeful. Here are just a few of her astonishing achievements: WON the Oakleigh Plate (5.5f), Newmarket Hcp (6f) and Doncaster Hcp (8f) at her third, fourth and fifth lifetime starts; WON the Autumn Stakes (12f) carrying 126 lb, the Sydney Cup (16f) carrying 133 lb, the All Aged Stakes (8f) and the AJC Plate (24f) carrying 129 lb in the space of eight days; THE only horse to win the weight-for-age Melbourne Stakes (run every year since 1869 and now the Mackinnon) in three successive years (Phar Lap won it twice); SECOND in the Melbourne Cup (16f) carrying 140 lb and giving the winner 48 lb (that’s correct 48 lb); WON 25 races over her four-year career, winning at the highest levels of competition, at distances from 5.5f to 3 miles, with 12 seconds and 4 thirds, against the best sprinters, middle-distance horses and stayers, of both genders, in Australia.

HOY ... Hype of the Year!

I agree re Aussie jockeys performing much better at the elite level of European racing than Aussie horses. To the below post’s list I would go back to the early 20th century and add: Frank Bullock, Brownie Carslake, Frank Wootton (Stanley’s brother) and Wally Sibbritt. And more recently, let’s not forget Gary Moore (George’s son) who won an Arc and dominated in Hong Kong. By my count Aussie jockeys have won 12 Arcs. Interestingly though, no comparably successful Aussie jockeys in the US.

It is a matter of fact that Australian horses have NOT performed with any great degree of success in the most prestigious races on the world stage. However, Australian jockeys such as Scobie Breasley,Ron Hutchinson, Pat Glennon, Bill Williamson, Neville Sellwood, Garnie Bougoure, George Moore and Rae Johnstone ,are amongst the very best as their record of big race wins have testified.

Australian superstar! That is the greatest racehorse joke of all time. I can name at least 4 Australian horses who are in a different league to this overrated nag. Phar Lap, Carbine, Kingston Town and Tulloch. Give us a break and stop posting such stupid comments about Black Caviar.

Just accept the fact that BC is nothing special. If ever proof was needed of this obvious fact then her win against moderate sprinters at Royal Ascot emphasised this. She barely scraped home, which leads me to the conclusion that all those horses she beat in topsy-turvy land were very poor. The trouble with Aussies is that they are too insulated and think that the world revolves around them. It's time you Australians faced facts and started living in the real world.

Correcting last part of my post below re San Simeon: his winning streak in Australia was 29 (not 26). Apologies.

I wondered how long it would take for all the excuses to start for the reason why BC only just managed to beat that Royal Ascot field. Injured, in season, off colour, wrong type of going, wrong type of course, didn't like the rain. Have I forgotten anything? Give us a break you whining, carping bunch of Aussie losers!

Get over it! Frankel is better than Black Caviar. So what! You cant compare the two anyway. They are run over different distances in different countries. She is still an awesome Australian horse, if she is that bad and ran so bad at Royal Ascot, then how did she still win. Injured and eased up at the line and still won. What else do you poms have for her????

FRANKEL IS NUMBER ONE BY A LONG WAY. BLACK CAVIAR WAS VERY ORDINARY WHEN SHE WON AT ROYAL ASCOT AND IT JUST PROVES HOW HYPED UP SHE HAS BEEN IN AUSTRALIA WHERE ALL THE RACES SHE HAS WON HAS BEEN AGAINST SECOND-RATE OPPOSITION.

After her average performance at Royal Ascot, there is no way this horse could be in the top 10 best of all time. If she is 10th, shouldn't Moonlight Cloud be in the Top 20.

Black Caviar`s fastest furlong was the fifth, when she pulleaf a length clear of the field. This was timed at : 41.5 mph. Her time for that furlong was 10.84s. IIn the last furlong she slowed up and was almost caught by two competitors, winning by the narrowest of margins. This has been attributed to a blunder by her Australian jockey, unused to the toughness of the course and the competition at Ascot. . Her time for the race was 1m 14.10s. This makes an average time over the six furlongs of 12.35 secs.. This compares with Frankel`s fastest furlong in the eight furlong race over the same course four days earlier 0f 10.54 secs. This was on softer going. Both times incidentally would sem to be faster than the fastest furlong recorded for the great American horse Secretariat, racing over longer distances.

To the previous poster's point: How can Black Caviar be at #10 and Zarkava at #27? Jeeeze! To be sure Zarkava raced only at two and three, but she won all seven of her starts (five G1s and one G3) including winning the Arc as a three-year-old filly. There's an immeasurable qualitative difference between winning fraudulent G1s in Australia and genuine G1s against the best in Europe.

As an Australian I am embarrassed by Black Caviar being rated #10 on this list. Come on! There are 30 or more genuine "greats" below her here who deserve to be above her. Her undefeated status racing in Australia simply proves she's a big fish in a small pond. She's beaten Hay List a few times in G1s (and had to be pushed along in a couple of them!) and she’s run some impressive times. Big deal! Furthermore, assuming she wins the Jubilee, as she should, it will improve her status only marginally - given that several good (but certainly not great) Aussie horses have won the Royal Ascot sprints before her. If she is to begin to live up to the absurd claims being made for her, she would need to win the Breeders’ Cup Sprint, or at least the Turf Sprint, at Santa Anita in Nov and one of the big sprints in Asia next year. She needs to show that she's a big fish in the BIG pond to earn consideration in the top 50 racehorses of all time.

Haha, watch Frankel's race from Tuesday. That is pure brilliance. He wasn't even ridden hard either. So don't come the trash about him having to be ridden hard in order to win races.

20 and 21 were in Adelaide ..... my grandmother could have beaten the oposition.

You can now make that 20 wins from 20 starts.

this list is a joke Pharlap is in front of Black Caviar and Frankel by the length of the straight at least and I am winning my share backing BC!!

Black Caviar is obviously a very fast sprinter, but if she comes over to Britain for the King's Stand Stakes,she will not have things all her own way. She will be considered one of the banker bets at Royal Ascot and 'hotpots' have a poor record at the Royal meeting. Hope she wins,though.

Has the some romantic status in Australia as Zenyatta in the United States. Is now unbeaten after 13 races, all in devestating fashion. Has margins and times criteria boxes ticked that should see her climb this list very rapidly. Unfortunately, sprinters don't seem to poll so well so she'll have to remain one for the officianado's that know their racing and horse flesh.

Not one of the best Epsom Derby winners.

Dawn Approach has just won the 2013 2,000 Guineas and makes it seven from seven.

Recently, Sizing Europe won a race in Ireland as a 12 year old. It was the 'Gowran Park Champion Chase'. Has dominated the race three times in succession prior to 2014 win.

I will correct the one mentioned above. It was in 2011 when this horse won the Queen Mother Champion Chase. Big Zeb won it in 2010.

Why is this horse listed twice? He is listed at 8!!

What a truly remarkable entity you are to be able to be so certain that Secretariat would have beaten any horse on this list, when there is no conceivable way of proving your assertion. It might be your opinion, but it is certainly NOT provable, by you or anyone else. Why make comments that you cannot possibly substantiate.

If you believe that Brigadier Gerard would have beaten Sea Bird over 1 Mile 4 furlongs then you absolutely NOTHING about European horseracing. For your information Brigadier Gerard was a miler, and although he did win a couple of races of the longer distance, he was nothing special. He would not have got within 10 lengths of Sea Bird in the Epsom Derby or he Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. Take my advice, stick to what you actually know something about.

Recently won the 2016 Arc De Triomphe as well as the Breeders Cup Turf.

2016 Arc De Triomphe winner. Could have been the greatest filly in history but for those second places in Group 1 races in the filly's amazing career.