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Best Racehorses of All Times

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Rated 239 points - posted 5 years ago by arollison in category Sports.
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Secretariat Report Abuse
At the age of 2, Secretariat was crowned Horse of the Year for his remarkable racing history. He only finished out of the top 3 one time during his career, and that was his first race.
1278 points - added 5 years ago by arollison - 217 comments
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Secretariat didn't just win each of the Triple Crown races in record time (see post below), each of those records still stands, 41 years later!
Added 1 month ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
What California Chrome could NOT do just emphasizes the awe-inspiring triumph of what Secretariat DID do: won each of the Triple Crown races in record time – and finished off the gut-busting challenge by winning the Belmont with one of the greatest performances in thoroughbred history.
Added 1 month ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Obvious first pick on anyone's list but of course that doesnt mean that there arent comparable horses.ManoWar may have been his equal we cant know for sure.Interesting that horse-racing can generate such a lengthy debate but..Big Red was something very special.Personally,I'd place him best of all time ahead of MOW but others dont so who knows for sure?
Added 1 month ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To whom, I have been following this childish squabble which has no place here. I have contributed to this site before and will list my initials. The original post simply used subtle means to initiate a discussion on ed bowen and his remarks on secretariat and manowar. I too am familiar with his works and comments. Mr. Bowen who wrote the bio on Manowar has relied on polls to inform his positions on the two horses and has offered no real analysis in their place. Mr. Bowen is a respected author who at one time worked for BloodHorse. I too have found at least some of his argumentation worthy of critique, for instance he is on record saying time records are of little value when comparing horses. If that is true, then at least half of manowar's legacy can be truncated for most of his biographers cite his records endlessly. Just read Dorothy Our's work 'A Legend Like Lighting". The original post cites specifics: polls, tracks, shoes, even genetics as points of discussion. No one responded to that. Well I will. Research has shown that horses have gotten faster over time, independent of tracks, shoes, etc, and this not even the so called experts who voted for manowar in those polls ever addressed. So introduce this into your discussion and see where it goes, if something meaningful ensues. As for my part it is done. RaCarde
Added 5 months ago by guest, -6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Tracks and technology has improved over time yes but that cannot All the difference seen in Time and improvements in performance. Some 20 lengths separate KD times in current times and those in the early 20s. Track, gates, shoes does not explain all of that....
Added 5 months ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Well what do you say? This is what Ed Bowen has said in many places...He wrote the book on ManoWar. He waters down Secretariat's achievements all the time and references polls as if they were scientific proof of his claims...You know the polls I'm sure you do, all 3 of them...Are polls enough????? Are you Ed Bowen? I am not but this is what he has said in many places....
Added 5 months ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
BEST EVER!! PERIOD
Added 5 months ago by guest, 11 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
ed bowen says: "look, its the polls, the polls, the pools...Manowar wins by a landslide....the polls.."
Added 5 months ago by guest, -22 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
come on people..Mano was superhuman..he had a 50ft stride, could run the mile in one minute flat, and it would take an impost of 300 lbs for Mano to loose...and the Polls, the Polls, the Polls, the Polls tell us truth....that is what Ed Bowen tells us!!!!!what about that????
Added 5 months ago by guest, -24 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
TRUTH IS....with BOTH horses at 100%, Secretariat would BURY Phar Lap! Please, don't compare Phar Lap with Secretariat because SEC could do things on a race track Phar Lap couldn't even DREAM OF!!!!
Added 5 months ago by bigred, 19 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The Yanks have us beat on this.Secretariat was undeniably the greatest thoroughbred of all time.I believe his WR time will stand forever.
Added 7 months ago by guest, 22 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Andy Beyer quoted on the PBS NewsHour website, 10 June 2011: “ … Secretariat’s Belmont Stakes was … probably the greatest single horse race ever run.” “The time of the race [the Belmont] was almost beyond imagining.” "Secretariat was in a different dimension than any other horse we've seen in modern times."
Added 8 months ago by guest, 43 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
At the peak of their careers, in the spring/summer of their three-year-old campaigns, both Secretariat and Ruffian won on New York tracks, officially rated as fast, at 8f, 9f and 12f. Each recorded his/her fastest winning times for these distances in these races. At 8f: Secretariat won the Gotham at Aqueduct in 1:33 2/5; Ruffian won the Acorn at Aqueduct in 1:34 2/5 (advantage Sec by 1 sec = 5 len). At 9f: Secretariat won the Marlboro Cup at Belmont in 1:45 2/5; Ruffian won the Mother Goose at Aqueduct in 1:47 4/5 (advantage Sec by 2 2/5 sec = 12 len). At 12f: Secretariat won the Belmont in 2:24; Ruffian won the CCA Oaks at Belmont in 2:27 4/5 (advantage Sec by 3 4/5 sec = 19 len). Which leads one apparently crack-addled galoot to post below that Ruffian was “way better” than Secretariat. Yeah, sure.
Added 9 months ago by guest, 55 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Yes, objectively, Ruffian's record - great as it was against her own age and gender - does not begin to measure up to Secretariat's. IF there was a filly from that era who might have been competitive with Secretariat it would have been Dahlia, on grass. Her wins at three against the best older horses in the King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes and in the Washington DC International were truly awesome. And don't forget she won the '74 Canadian International in nine lengths faster time than Secretariat won it the year before. I'm not saying she WOULD have beaten the great horse but her record says she would have had a better chance to do so than Ruffian.
Added 11 months ago by guest, 41 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
So Ruffian was “way better” than “this dirt bag” Secretariat? And we wonder what’s wrong with horse racing today. May I suggest: a chronic ignorance of the sport’s history and, partly as a result of that ignorance, a crippling inability to analyze and evaluate the sport’s stars. Ruffian was a great filly who met a fate as tragic as it was too soon. But she never raced outside her age group and never completed a race against anything but fillies. In each of the Triple Crown races Secretariat set records that, incredibly, still stand – 40 years later! As a three-year-old he also took on and beat the best older horses at G1 level , on both dirt and turf, and set a world record (9f, dirt) and a Belmont track record (12f, turf) in doing so. By objective, provable fact, Ruffian was not a better racehorse than Secretariat (not “way better” or any degree better). And to denigrate Secretariat as a “dirt bag” is simply beyond the pale of sound mindedness.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 76 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Saw them both. Loved Ruffian. She was a brilliant speed horse, but couldn't maintain speed over distance like Secretariat. Anything from a mile and over, he was much the better.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 25 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Ruffian. Was way better than this dirt bag
Added 1 year ago by guest, -27 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
right...and that is on dirt...the real test of greatness is the dirt track...the Belmont track can punish any pretenders of greatness...but I am sure it got a taste of its own medicine from secretariat...
Added 1 year ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Additionally, how about posting a 1:09.8 for the first 3/4 mile and 1:34.2 mile, and then breezing to a 25 second final quarter! You are ABSOLUTELY correct....what Secretariat accomplished on June 9, 1973 stretches far beyond the physical limits of what a thoroughbred is capable of!!!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 14 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I don't think there was and will be another racehorse that can do a 461/5 on the first 2 quarters and still breeze home with a 25 on a mile and a half race...I don't think the tracks nor the equipment nor the drugs has anything to do with such a display of speed and staying power...not even a fiction writer can create one...secretariat is simply the best...
Added 1 year ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Yes, its an absurdity. Think of it in human terms. The ave finishing times in the 100 meter dash at the world level has dropped considerably in the last 50 years. It used to be well over 10 seconds to run. Now its well under 10 seconds, prob around 9.9 or so. Are we to say that this is solely due to lighter shoes, better racing venues and tracks? An absurdity. What is left out is the human factor. Athletes themselves have gotten faster over time. The new record is now 9.58 seconds or so, Usane Bolt? Just lighter shoes, etc? Ridiculous. Its the same with the thoroughbred breed. It too, on average, has gotten faster over time, independently of tracks, shoes,etc....How? Very good stallions and mares, pedigree, larger crops, etc....
Added 1 year ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To me, the best way to see the fallacy of the "tracks are faster now" argument is to look not at MOW at all, but some of his contemporaries and near contemporaries. I gather the technology arguers would claim an approximately 3 second advantage per mile due to plates and track surface. Even if we say 2 seconds, that would mean that Mad Hatter, two years in a row, had the equivalent of a 3:18 JCGC, putting him significantly ahead of the great Kelso. More importantly, both the place and show horses (Pillory and the filly Bit o' White), who were only 2 lengths back, would also have beaten Kelso's BEST time at the two mile distance. Do we really believe that not just Mad Hatter, but also Pillory and Bit o" White were better than Kelso? People who argue the technology angle can't pick and chose which horses to whom that allowance should be applied.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I have read of few pieces written by Ed Bowen including his book on ManOWar, and he just seems to consider time records as irrelevent and unreliable. Yet ManOWar set a slew of them in his era. Most of them were broken within a few years leaving only his 1 5/8th record as his longest standing, over 70 years at Belmont I think. Pls note that that distance is one that is not run often. The Gallant Fox, if is still exists today, might be the only one left, an ungraded Stakes race ran on the last Saturday of the year. Yes sir you are correct.....the track that day in 1973 was not that fast. Beyer determined that it had slowed a bit and in his original figure of 148 (Beyer adjusted it to 139 using his year 2000 tables), he estimated a slightly slower track by some 3 to 4 fifths of a second. Time is not the only test of the strength of a track record. Crop size is too. Since Secs records were set, over 1 million thoroughbreds have been foaled in North America, a staggering number. And still only 1 or two of his records have been broken. The more horses bred, the chance of breeding great horses increase. Yet most of Secs records still stand. His 9 furlong world record lasted for some 18 years, broken only on the faster west coast tracks and by only two horses, both 4 year olds i think. Still he owns the track record for the distance at Belmont. But according to Ed Bowen, this doesnt matter. Lighter shoes and better surfaces explains faster times. Horses getting better? Well I have yet to see him address this. rac
Added 1 year ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Does Ed Bowen dismiss the FACT that on June 9, 1973, ALL of the Belmont Stakes races were running 5 to 10 lengths short of track records for those distances (explaining why Beyer predicted a 2:27 time)??? Or does he dismiss the FACT that NO HORSE SINCE Secretariat has even "sniffed" his Triple Crown records even with the so-called on-going improvement in track conditions, training, etc! Is he kidding himself or what??? What is extremely amazing about Secretariat is not only does he own the 1.5 mile dirt track World Record by 9 lengths...I repeat...9 lengths but his 1-1/8 mile record was only bested by 1 length, his 1-3/16 mile 1:53 flat Preakness was only bested by 3 lengths (Riva Ridge), his 1 mile Gotham was only bested by 5 lengths (Dr. Fager), and he "galloped" to 2 unofficial world records 1/8 of a mile AFTER the wire for 1-1/4 miles (1:57.8 to tie Spectacular Bid), and 1-5/8 miles (2:37.4 to break Swaps world record by 4 lengths!). Incredibly, Secretariat's times over 6 different distances either stake a claim at world records or are within 1, 3, and 5 lengths of additional world records. Add in the fact he is the SOLE horse EVER to be documented as accelerating an entire race from start to finish over 1-1/4 miles/10 furlongs (Kentucky Derby)!!! I want to see another horse boast a myriad of world class speed figures between 1 and 1-5/8 miles BEFORE or AFTER Secretariat????????
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 11 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Yes I had been saying this for years. Record while important is insufficient in deciding an answer to this question. If record by itself is sufficient, then Kincem who had an incredible career in the 1870s and achieved a true singularity, something that most likely will never be repeated (how can 54 straight wins ever be repeated?), would have to be ranked above all others. The great filly's achievement would certainly rank above all others, but this still cannot answer the question of whether or not she would defeat all others since her era. Many other variables are involved, the most important being genetics. Did the breed get better as time progressed, and this independent of improvements in track design, surface and technology? I would argue yes, peaking, at least in the U.S., around the mid 20th century. Studies have demonstrated this. This is why I rank Secretariat ahead of most if not all others before him or since (at least in the U.S.). When those like racing historian and writer for Blood Horse Ed Bowen dismiss Secretariat, it is interesting they rarely include genetics in their arguments Instead they cite changes in technology (shoes) and track speed as the major variables. Certain European stallions were imported into the states just before, during and after the second World War which boosted the American stock into international standards, probably surpassing them. Horses got faster and were able to maintain speed over longer distances. Secretariat surpassed the pinnacle of this trend. Other horses also achieved greatness at about this time. Changes in track speed and technology cannot account for all the change seen in performance over time. Competition is far stronger than what is was 70 to 100 years ago. rac
Added 1 year ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Superb analogy! Let's take it one step further and use boxing as an example. I have never seen a sophisticated list of "the greatest boxers ever" with Rocky Marciano and his 49-0 record as the #1 all-time boxer. Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson (pound for pound, of course) ALWAYS rate higher and both of them lost several matches. Simply stated, they were superior boxers, maintaining skillsets beyond Marciano's capabilities which takes nothing away from the great Marciano. Same in horse racing because Secretariat possessed an unparalleled mix of "speed" and "stamina" above and beyond all the rest and his supernatural-like performances prove it!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If you hold that going undefeated is the sole (or even major) criterion for comparing racehorses then you have to acknowledge that Kincsem (54 – 54-0-0) was 3.8 times a better horse than Frankel (14 – 14-0-0) and that Frankel wasn’t quite as good as Peppers Pride (19 – 19-0-0). Which is absurd, because the underlying proposition is absurd and is postulated only by neophytes, the sort of vulgar idolaters that Frankel and Black Caviar seem to have beckoned forth from under their rocks.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 51 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Well said! Your comment is evocative of Charles Hatton's famous assessment of Secretariat: "His only point of reference is himself."
Added 1 year ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I saw Frankel race......blew my mind. However.....Secretariat was on another level, a phenomenon, the best
Added 1 year ago by guest, 29 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I like Frankel but anyone sugesting he's as good as Secretariat is pulling your leg.The only horse that can be compared is MOW.Some say he's better.In my view,the best Euro horse was Nijinsky.Seabird was a beautiful horse but not a TC winner.The horse must be a TC winner..failing that,the horse could be considered the greatest if he held very fast times over multiple distance proving sprint and stamina.If the horse doesnt hold either the TC or the times,then its a bit rich to place him above those that do.Secretariat holds both accolades..the TC and the record times.You cant argue with that.Being unbeaten is good but not a big factor overall.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 33 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Im english and I think Frankel was a great horse but Secretariat was a phenomenon. His record speaks for itself and its not about how many you win, its the manner of winning and and WHO you beat. Secretariat for me, hands down.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 37 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Also, you mention underfeated. How many horses go underfeated? Frankel & Ribot, yes. But incredible horses such as Sea Bird II, MOW, Nijinsky, Citation, Dr. Fager, Mill Reef etc. all lost races for different reasons. Being underfeated doesn't make you the best...too many factors/variables. Secertariat's supernatural status is the result of his World-Class performances/times/fractions bewteen 8 & 12 furlongs. God, the horse even set world-records "pulling up" 1/1 of a mile AFTER THE WIRE at 10 & 13 furlongs!!! How many horses can you honestly say were world-class "sprinters" & "stayers"??? The answer is you can count them on a single hand w/Secertariat at the head of the class!!!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 41 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
What has Frankel re-written??? (1) NEVER raced more than 10.5 furlongs, dodging Europe's most prestigious races (ARC, Epsom, English TC Races); (2) His 8 furlong times are mediocre at best, if not sub-par; (3) It took him 4+ years to run more than 8 furlongs??? (4) ran 14 races in 3+ years - talk about ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE & cherry picking your races; (5) If you know anything which you obviously DON'T, Secretariat lost 4 races (he was disqualified in one after finishing 1st) of which 2 he was ill and another when he didn't train for 2+ weeks!!! (His only legitamate loss was his maiden race). So spare me your nonsense because If Frankel even "sneezed", Cecil would have kept him in the barn for 3 months!!! At 9 furlongs or better Secertariat would have BURIED Frankel & SEC's world-class times at those distances prove it!!!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 35 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Completely defunct list already, Frankel has rewritten it (all move one place down). Top ten in the list should all be unbeaten anyway-these are supposed to be the best horses ever!! As for including horses with a less than 80% win record (Secretariat etc) -laughable.
Added 1 year ago by guest, -58 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
hes a bad ass
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The vet who did Secretariat's autopsy said he had never seen a heart so perfect and so strong.This explains how he ran so powerfully.The Belmont exhibition was jaw-dropping but I think the move on the first turn of the Preakness was his best.Ive never ever seen a horse move like that.Whilst there have many other good horses,I have never seen a horse as good as Secretariat and Ive been following racing for 50 years now.I just wish Id seen him race but I never did.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat was the greatest horse of all time by quite some margin.ALL HIS TC RECORD WINNING TIMES ARE INTACT 40 YEARS ON! MOW second,Ribot 3rd,The Bid four,Kelso five..Seabird would make the top ten although he left nothing for posterity,no TC,no great times etc.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 11 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Forego had a heck of a career. He was very popular in the New York racing scene; the horse was of that great 1970 crop that produced so many winners and hall of famers: Dahlia,Mr. Prospector (maybe the finest sire of the last 40 years or so), Secretariat, Forego, Ancient Title, Desert Vixen and the list goes on. The one forgotten is Sham. He equaled track records and broke them during his Triple run. Yes, he broke down in the Belmont but that hardly overshadows his previous performances. One bad race does not make a bad horse. Before the Kentucky Derby he lost twice (the '73 season), both due to bad jockey decisions. He should have been undefeated en route to Kentucky. In the KD, he finished 8 and 1/2 lengths ahead of Forego. Yes, Forego was young and getting his legs, but 8.5 lengths would be a very difficult margin to close, even with more growth and maturity. Don't forget, Sham was also growing and maturing. Based on that race when both Forego and Sham were all out, this is why i believe Forego would have had a hard time catching Sham if the latter had continued his career. Unfortunately, Sham never had a chance to rebound and prove himself for he was suddenly retired and sent to stud. The stallion deal was to good to refuse, near 3 million dollars at Spendthrift, and that for a horse that lost his last 4 races.....Still, all the respect for Forego, probably the first or second best gelding America ever produced, the other contender being Kelso. I think Forego was far better than Exterminator, and any of the others. He was a big horse and could carry a load....His '76 Marlboro was a masterpiece.....Red1
Added 1 year ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat set records in all three Triple Crown races. Three classic grade one stakes in five weeks and records in every one. Those records have stood for 39 years now. As a three year old, he bested great older horses, also setting course or world records. Victories on dirt, turf and mud. Horse of the Year as a two year old. Yes, he did lose (i.e., got second in) some races, but that was probably a result of his fame and appeal. By that I mean that if there had not been so much anticipation of (and perhaps pressure for) his appearance in each race, it may have been easier to scratch if there was any uncertainty about whether he was at his best that day. I don't mean to imply that any of his connections knowingly put him at risk, rather that there may have been a tacit understanding that made those who knew him best reticent to volunteer uncertainties. At any rate, Secretariat had 21 races in two seasons. Ribot was a great undefeated horse, but raced only 16 times in three seasons. Sea Bird and Shergar each raced 8 times, fewer races in their careers than Secretariat raced as a two year old. Man O' War and Kelso were great horses, no doubt, and had to carry amounts of weight that Secretariat didn't. However, as many have pointed out, Secretariat's weight was significantly greater than those horses', and any of you who run know that that does make a difference, even if it is "in shape" weight. We don't see anabolic types winning a marathon! To me, it's the totality of the careers. Secretariat had brilliant speed and amazing endurance. He won at many distances, on many different tracks, surfaces and conditions, against older champions and great horses from his own age group. It is really too bad for us all that he didn't race as a four year old. There have been other great horses in the U.S. and abroad that have thrilled us with their performances, but for me, Secretariat will always be number one.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 8 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Dear red1: In 57 starts, Forego had 34 wins, 9 seconds and 7 thirds (50 races in the money). He registered 24 stakes victories including 14 Grade 1 wins. Just slightly better than Sham.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The next time you watch the Belmont Stakes take the winners time and subtract 2:24 from it. Multiply that number by 5. This will tell you how many lengths Secretariat would have beaten the winner by. Citation - 21 lengths; Seattle Slew - 28 etc.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat LOST 5 races out of 21 starts. Hardly the record of the greatest horse of all-time.
Added 1 year ago by guest, -25 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sec over Forego without a doubt...Forego would have had trouble with Sham...red1
Added 1 year ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Saw Secretariat win the Belmont. Unbelievable horse. Forego should be much higher than 18th. Sec vs Forego as 4 year olds 1 1/4 mile at Belmont. Question: Who do you like?
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Over hyped and over rated!
Added 1 year ago by guest, -27 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If anyone has ANY doubts about Secretariat's ability to run lightning fast 1 mile or less fractions consider that he once was clocked at 32-2/5 seconds for a 3 furlong workout for an unfathomable average of 10-4/5 seconds per furlong! SEC also consistently ran 57 to 58 second 5 furlong workouts, including a workout where he "galluped" out an additional 6th furlong in 1:08-4/5 seconds. His incredible 1:33-2/5 second mile in the Gotham stakes was an additional barometer of his ability to exhibit sprinter speed. Bottom line is Secretariat was BOTH a "sprinter" and "stayer" justifying his world-class stature.
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Especially in todays market. The good horses are sent off to stud as soon as possible. I dont have the facts or figues but it looks as if the best 3 year olds are gone before they reach 4 years . Curlin, a great athlete, was one of the very few that continued for an additional season. Money runs the industry plus a possible lack of durability in the modern specimen. I think owners want them sold to the breeders before anything happens.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I agree with you that Sec needed an extra season to achieve his full potential. He probably would have held more records. I think a lot of good horses retire too soon to get the chance to achieve their full potential.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There may be some truth to what you say...ManOWar descendents have done very well through the first mile, Fager, Swaps, etc....Princiquillo progeny, Secretariat, et al...have done well through the longer distances, although Kelso, a descendent of ManOWar, was an exception for he did very well through the longer distances. Unfortunately, Sec needed an extra season to be tested at the shorter distances and he didnt have that luxury. In that so called list of top 100 thoroughbreds, I thought Swaps had been severely underrated, he should have been somewhere in the top 12, probably top 9. The great jockey Eddie Arcero who rode Nashua once commented that Swaps career had been wasted by poor management, we never really saw his best.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I think Secretariat was one of the greatest racehorses of all times and maybe the best at at over 12 furlongs but I think Swaps is better. He set world records from a mile to 1 5/8 miles. Seems that Swaps is more versatile. Sec would probably beat him at a mile and half and over but couldn't have ran with him at 1 mile or under. None of them have any business on the track with Dr. Fager at a mile or less. Also, I never liked how Secretariat fans all ways make excuses for his losses. Almost every great racehorse that lost was sick or had an injury they didn't report. I call BS on that. Sham riped his front teeth out coming out of the gate. Had it not been for that maybe he would have won the Derby. His Belmont time was amazing and his Derby time was great but still almost 2 seconds off a world record and not much faster than Northern Dancers (ND wasn't even 3 years until the end of May)
Added 1 year ago by guest, -14 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Nice analysis. I also think he could have trimmed anywhere from 1 to 3 seconds off of Kelso's records at 2 miles, which is extraordinary at such a long distance. But this was an extraordinary horse. In that paper which I referenced earlier, there is a scale of heart mass to body mass which the avereage horse scores at about 110, Sec at about 55 to 60. The lower the figure the better, that is the horse will experience less fatigue over distance. The great Phar Lap scored at about 85 and he set records at long distances, even while carrying large imposts. So the data seems to suggest, in fact strongly suggests that Sec was a very special specimen that could have set records all the way through at least 2 miles. The races he lost in 1973 were all lost OFF THE TRACK, BEFORE THE RACE, not on the track, and that includes Prove Out. rac
Added 1 year ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat ran in the 1973 Preakness at 37.83mph, still a world record for 9.5 furlongs although two horses have matched or betterred it in the Jockey over 10 furlongs. Frankel`s best speed in a major race on turf was 37 mph in the 2011 2000 Guineas, although the next year he achieved almost the same speed over 10 furlongs at York. The fastest time over 2 miles in a major race was set by Rain Lover in Melbourne in 1968, at 36.16 mph just beating Kelso`s speed in the two mile Jockey of 1964. Rain Lover was a descendant of Ribot and recorded a faster time than Secretariat`s own offspring Kingston Rule at Melbourne, Secretariat`s 37.5 mph average speed in the 1.5 mile Belmont suggests that he would have betterred the times of all modern horses over two miles also.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Frankel would easily beat any horse past or present but secreteriat was no nag and would. Put up a good show my friend NOW SIT DOWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 1 year ago by guest, -32 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Frankel would have pulverized Secretariat over a mile. Secretariat that overrated, hyped -up nag.
Added 1 year ago by guest, -42 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I just came across a paper forecasting Secretariat's performance level in the Jockey Club Gold Cup when it was set at 2 miles.....In that examination, good data is used to show that Sec could easily have set a new record in that race, easily breaking Kelso's records....I think if Secretariat ManoWar is googled, the paper is called Secretariat and ManoWar Revisited.... a new paper is published there which also talks about Secreatiats heart to body mass ratio, something not seen in other places.....Secretariat is most likely the finest horse this country ever produced....the facts demonstrate this.....
Added 1 year ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The only thing that Frankel would be even associated to Secretariat is Frankel would be Secretariats pony horse or Secretariats rabbit horse. Why? because Frankel is vastly overrated by his own Brit company Timeform
Added 1 year ago by guest, 19 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Frankel - no question far better than ANY horse previously
Added 1 year ago by guest, -35 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat was truly great on his day. However he lost almost one quarter of his races, so I'm afraid that means he can't be considered as the best of all time IMHO.
Added 1 year ago by guest, -34 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Difficult to really asses this hirse a sthe fottage shows an incredible performance where he killed his oposisition but much of this was becasuse of Jockey error; they should never have let him get that far away.
Added 1 year ago by Bill Lambert, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Kelso wasnt oversized...he stood 16 hands with a stride that barely reached 24 ft; I got this data from hatten ...Ridan was a much larger animal who could not beat Kelso...Forego was oversized and carried less of a percent of his weight than Kelso.......maybe Secreatiat can carry 132 lbs or so but i am talking about 138 or more.... Im talking about 12% or more, that which Mow and Kelso did...Mow was a bigger than avereage animal but he was no 17 hands, 1220 as forego was....Secretariat had a terrific conformation, very muscular animal and in my OPINION based on more OBJECTIVE modeling, MAY HAVE BEEN the best specimen this country ever produced at the classic distances on flat tracks, and maybe even at 16 furlongs where my work predicts a finishing time near 197 seconds, still we can never be sure ...Prove Out had a prediction time at 16 furs much better than he was able to accomplish, so we can never be sure about anything in this business....regards.....in the meantime, MOW is moving up the ladder....
Added 1 year ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I find it intereting that you bring up the excessive weights for MOW, Kelso, and Forego who were all oversized beasts. It is no coincidence that all 3 of these horses handled large handicaps with their massive anatomical structures the primary reason for easily adapting to extra weight. That is exactly my point with regard to Secretariat. Like these 3 legends, SEC's enormous conformation would have likewise easily handled any extra weight at 4...5....and so on. Regards!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
FYI.... Red...add to that Kelso who barely touched 16 hands and weighed probably less than 1100 pounds...yet that boy set all kinds of records at long distances carrying imposts at 12% more or less.....MOW massed in at 1150 and carried imposts at 12%. The point is that there probably is not a clear relationship between Mass and impost....The horse can or the horse cant do it and that is all there is to it.....And as far as the 'forum', opinions are like navels, everyone has one....some are more experienced than others, yes but tell that to the 'expert' who put sec in the 14 spot on the listing....I like numbers, ratios, and emperical models more than opinions, even professional opinions.....Beyer himself once quipped that that head to head between Affimed and Alyadar in the Belmont may have looked spectacular, but it wasnt.....Beyer didnt think much of it and why? Because he could score it, with a model, numbers, something more objective.....Once again, I have scored Secs potential at two miles and it looks spectacular, but seeing is believing......sec
Added 1 year ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
FYI, Foregoweighed well over 1200 pounds and the best he could carry was about 11% of his weight. Take 11% of Secs weight what do you get? And Forego raced well into his 7 year, won a ton of titles defeating the best of his 4-7 years........I guess Forego was absolutely inferior......sec
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
FYI, you continue to use the word "speculation" with regard to Secretariat? Bottom line is THIS ENTIRE FORUM as well as ANY top 10 race horse list is based on sheer specuation! Also, you CANNOT use Citation or virtually any other horse to prove your point that "you simply don't know if Secretariat could have carried extra weight". Reason being NONE of these horses were 1,100 - 1,150 lbs. Secretariat was ALREADY dealing with an extra 100 - 150 lbs (10% to 15% of extra weight) , and an extra 6 - 10 would NOT have mattered at all at the age of 4!!! Lucien Lauren, Ron Turcotte, Andy Beyer, Charles Hatton (premier US racing analyst), Kent Hollingsworth (senior US trainer), and Eddie Arcaro (Citation jockey who also claimed SEC was the greatest horse ever!) all stated Secretariat was getting "better" when he retired. Also, all of the aforementioned individuals clearly indicated that Turcotte had never gotten to the bottom of Secretariat. Assuming he was healthy, SEC would have absolutely crushed his competion at 4 years old, and would have set many more records. We can only base our assumptions on the data we have, justifying why SEC's supernatural like performances place him at the top of many historians lists. Regards!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
big red, i said he faced and defeated good horses, just not all of them: Dahlia and he needed a rematch with Prove Out. I am not saying they ducked Prove Out in the Cup. They had to give Riva a chance at that win. Still we are left with questions unanswered....also, you didnt address the euro horses..they are toughened by running tougher courses....i think i read somewhere that lucien lauren said it would take 6 months to train sec to run there...just to get the horse in form for the arc de triumph would take several months of running and training. Its all speculation on how the horse could have handled all of that....yes, he was anatomically a terrific specimen with an alleged 22 lb heart but dont forget Sham had a huge heart as well and look at what happened to him in the Belmont. Its not just heart, there are other factors as well that must be present. Its all speculation.....If you want to see how well Secretariat might have done at 2 miles, i am putting a paper together on the subject, based on probability theory. I discovered that Prove Out should have ran the 2 mile distance much faster than he did, at least a second faster. He was already showing signs of decay in his form which preempted his best output. Thats what I mean when I say its all speculation........there is no substitute for the real thing, for actually running the race and secretariat is no exception....I found that Sec's predicted time at 2 miles was record setting, by as much as 2 seconds, but once again just speculation....Nevertheless, Sec is a candidate for the best of the best, along with a few others, that is the best we can do, just name candidates.....By the way Citation had trouble carrying weight, that despite his record setting 3 year old season. Yea he dad bad ankles, but still he never won carrying more than 129 pounds...We simply dont know what they will do until they do it.......sec
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
FYI, I cannot argue with the previous post that there are most likey 4 - 6 horses that could stake a claim to being the greatest horse ever such as MOW, Secretariat, Sea Bird II, etc. Certainly, when you narrow it down to a handful of these absolute superior thoroughbreds, nominating a "no-contest" winner is virtually impossible. Truly, the top tier of horses could beat each other on any given day.
Added 1 year ago by bigred, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The anatomical difference between a 3 and 4 yr-old horse is synonymous to a 15 and 21 year old male, thus the reason for handicaps. However, even as a 2/3 year-old, Secretariat had to endure extra weight EVERY time he raced! SEC's weight ranged from 1,100 to 1,150 lbs which is easily 100 - 150 lbs heavier than the standard 1,000 lb. horse. Do you honestly think as a 4 year old, SEC couldn't have handled and extra 6 - 10 lbs? SEC was a solid mass of pure muscle; a freight train with PERFECT conformation. NEXT: It is true ProveOut beat SEC at the Woodward by approx. 4 lengths, but SEC had ZERO training for nearly 2 wks and was rushed into the race at the 11th hour because Riva Ridge could not run in the mud. SEC still ran a stellar 2:26-3/5 time IN THE MUD WITHOUT TRAINING which would best nearly ANY horse on the planet except for the 4 year-old Prove Out who ran the race of his life that day (2:25-4/5). If SEC had trained properly, most experts agree he could have easily made up 1 to 1.5 seconds, but it was obvious he tired in the stretch. You quoted SEC didn’t beat good horses? How about Sham (who would have been a TC winner WITHOUT SEC), 5 yr-old Canadian Champion Kennedy Road (SEC beat him 2x), 4 yr-old premier North American champion turf horse TenTam, 4 year old Kentucky Derby & Belmont Champion Riva Ridge, 3 year-old Forego, and 6 year-old champion Couger II…all crushed by SEC who was only 3! Do you really think a beast of a horse like SEC with a 22lb. heart would not have been able to handle 2 miles? Secretariat “galloped” 1/8 of a mile past the wire in the Belmont Stakes to an unofficial world record for 1-5/8 miles, besting the legendary SWAPS record by 3/5 of a second....GALLUPED….after still sprinting the final 2 furlongs. Next time you decide to make outlandish statements, please do your homework first!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
the best we can do is list candidates, candidates for first, second, and so forth......it is not possible to know with any certainty the 'best' of the best....Secretariat would certainly, and i mean certainly , be a top tier candidate along with 4, 5, or maybe 6 others.......a candidate for the best of the best.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Kudos and thanks to the previous poster. Brilliantly put!
Added 1 year ago by guest, 8 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
It just amazes me how ANYONE can possibly state that Secretariat was "hyped up far beyond his ability"??? Think about this....ONE HORSE...I repeat ONE HORSE...owns ALL 3 North American TC racing records. That covers over 140 years, 420+ races and some 4,500 horses!!! The distances have remained basically the same, and considering the technical strides in training/conditioning and track surface enhancements the past half century, it is virtually unfathomable to think that ALL 3 records could continue to stand the test of time. Secretariat ran on dirt, in the rain slopped mud, and both dry/slick turf while CRUSHING 4, 5 and 6 year-old champion horses as a 3 year old. He set two unofficial world records for 1-1/4 and 1-5/8 mile distances "galluping" 1/8 of a mile AFTER the wire, and his performance in the Belmont Stakes ranks as the greatest single performance in racing history with NO horse ever coming within 9 lengths of his 1-1/2 mile dirt time. His 4 losses were compromised by 2 illnesses where he had no business racing and another loss with ZERO training for a 1-1/2 mile race wherby he still posted a super 2:26 in change time IN THE MUD!!! The fact remains, it is NOT the overall record that determines eternal thoroughbred status but the supernatural achievments achieved in their most significant wins/races. Keep in mind there are horses with stellar records that really never beat any superior horses (if you race against a turtle you will win 100% of the time!), but you can NEVER discount world-class performances that unquestionably surpass all those who have come before and after. It is in this aspect that Secretariat knows NO PEERS. Simply stated, SEC did things on a race track that immensely stretched the limits of the standard thoroughbred!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 31 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Greatest of all time... this horse was money!
Added 1 year ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Out of all the other horses I've seen race Secretariat is THE BEST.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If Sec lived up to the potential his performance norms indicated, this horse was not hyped...I ran the numbers on Sec and his potential at the Jockey Club Gold Cup distance of two miles, the way it was ran in 1973. I found that his loss to Prove Out in the Woodward was in fact an aberration, clearly a sub-performance. On removing that race from his performance line, the standard errors declined indicating that race was something of an outlier. The horse entered that race without training, and still he ran its second fastest time. Secs potential at two miles, based on his actual performances through 1.5 miles, is apparently off the charts, outdoing Kelso and Citation by large margins. No, if Sec lived up to his potential, this horse was anything but hyped......at least in American flat racing.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great horse, but hyped far beyond his ability. There have been better horses than Secretariat.
Added 1 year ago by guest, -39 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I believe that the "tracks are faster now" argument is often applied incorrectly, when people argue that Man O' War's times actually surpass Secretariat's times. What has changed dramatically since MOW's time is the composition related to drainage. That means that overall tracks are faster now, but a fast track in 1920 is still comparable to a fast track in 1973, or 2012. A "heavy" or "cuppy" track, or even a "good" track in 1920 would, indeed, be slower than more contemporary tracks with similar designations. Most of MOW's races were run on a "fast" track. There are also race charts that indicate that in at least one of his races, MOW was "hard ridden." That race was the Dwyer Stakes, vs. John P. Grier, under 126 lbs. on a fast track. No excessive weight and a fast track and "hard ridden." And, indeed, he had very fast early fractions (:46 half, 1:09.4 @ 6F), but finished 9F in a somewhat tepid 1:49.1, under a "hard ride." Well, maybe he wasn't feeling great himself that day, but a horse who is never asked to work very hard, in general, has a much better post-race recovery, and we don't really know how well he would do, how sound he would stay (or how healthy) if he gave it his all every time. I think Man O' War was a great horse for his time, and a very good, possibly great horse for any time, but I personally believe that Secretariat won the genetic lottery, and I believe his accomplishments exceeded those of MOW. I also think the "superior nutrition" argument is very much overstated. Secretariat got oats, alfalfa hay, and frequent carrots and apples when he was racing. Nothing more exotic. I can't believe that 1973 oats were that much different from 1920 oats!
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
OOoops! I meant to say that Prove Out's best was nearly two seconds slower than Secretariat's best!
Added 1 year ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Those who have said Prove Out was an average horse have not checked his bloodlines. His sire was the prepotent Graustark, son of Ribot, and his dam, Equal Venture, was a full sister to Triple Crown winner Assault. However, that Woodward was Prove Out on his best day, and he was still over two seconds slower than Secretariat on his best day. And though Secretariat appeared in races on off days for him for whatever reasons, on his best days, in my opinion, nobody could or will touch him! I'm not sure if anyone here has mentioned Mill Reef, but it is interesting to note that that great champion was also a product of the Nasrullah (grandsire) Princequillo (damsire) cross, as was Secretariat.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
with his great distance and speed he would win pretty easy... and his jocky didn't even have to usse his whip, even during his famous 31 lengths belmont race..i mean, just imagine all the famous other horses like ice cream : , Man O'War, Citation, Phar Lap, Native Dancer, Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew and Dr Fager ok, secretariat would have been the whip cream to the ice cream
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Apparently my previous piece didn't post so here it is again. Apologists of Mano don't take into account the role of genetics over time. This dimension accounts for differences in finishing times over generations. They cite shoes, tracks, weight, 'held in check', etc..., all non-heritable factors and in the year he ran. My work at "Sec and Mano Revisited', took these into account along with heritable factors over generations and found Sec ahead by 1.2 to 1.8 seconds at 12 furlongs (Mano was allowed to run in the Lawrence-Dorothy Ours). What I discovered was that Mano was impossibly GREAT, converting his times to modern figures would put his 12 furlong runs in the low 2:25 range which is amazing, he wasn't even giving his best. Still Sec, who wasn't asked, was many fractions ahead which demonstrates his greatness. What is amazing is that Mano was bred in 1920 in a foal count of 1600+. Only Sec, Count Fleet, and Mano ran like this, my top three American Horses, (along with Kelso below). sec
Added 2 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I must add one more to the list, Kelso. Though I could not in my work test his performances because the horse did not run the modeled races, his 2 mile runs were sensational. This horse, which apparently just reached 16 hands with a stride anywhere from 23 to 25 ft at most, ran the finest long distance Gold Cup performances on more than one occasion setting records that will not be broken. This horse had heart both figuratively and literally and so must be included along with the three previously mentioned, Sec, Count Fleet, and Mano. It is ashamed this horse, a descendent of Manowar, was gelded. He had two careers, the second as a show jumper demonstrating high athletic ability. sec
Added 2 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat was the best equine athlete because he was a freak of nature, with a heart weighing I believe 18 pounds, and being 2 1/2 times the size of a normal horse heart, no wonder he could run like a machine. Great or not, he's never been my favorite, but I do respect him as a legend that will probably never be matched.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Typical american comment. Heres another one you guys often pull "we live in the best country in the world" and even calling it " The World Series".. thats just crap. america is not the whole world that is the kind of attitude that makes the whole world not like you
Added 2 years ago by guest, -66 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Read his record. He was THE BEST of all time - no ifs or buts. And now the Maryland Racing Commission has officially adjusted his Preakness time to 1:53; thus he set race records in each of the Triple Crown races. Incomparable!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 64 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Not only did Secretariat WIN the TC, he won each race in record times that still hold. He won the Derby fully two seconds faster than this year's winner, I'll Have Another; we won't even discuss the Belmont (31 lengths!?), and there is an ongoing battle over a timer error in the Preakness. Win the TC and claim those record times and you're my #1 horse.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 20 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I know this seems kind of petty, but I wish the connections of Secretariat had been able to come up with an original nickname for him, as it confuses things with the original Big Red, Man o' War. I'm not arguing merit here, just a thing about the nickname. :-)
Added 2 years ago by Emerald01, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Just a note: Man o' War was not scratched from the Kentucky Derby. he was never entered in the race.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Phar lap is not extremely overrated!!
Added 2 years ago by guest, -15 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat is the best horse in the world because he's the only one who had Sham as a rival. Defeating Sham thrice in the Triple Crown is arguably the greatest sport accomplishment ever.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat IS the best without a doubt, While Sea Bird II only ran 8 and lost 1 Secretariat ran about 20 and lost 3. Then he had perfect comformation, great fun- loving personality, and ran the Kentucky faster than in everyhalf mile. So to all of you people Secretariat is the best. NO ARGUMENT.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Phar Lap also won the 1931 1400m (7f) Group 1 Futurity Stks on a very heavy track against a top class sprinter/miler field carrying 147 pounds or 10 stone 3 as a 4yo. That weight equates to roughly 18 pounds OVER weight for age
Added 2 years ago by guest, -12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sec carried more weight at 2 and 3YO than Phar Lap. Ran in arguably the most competitive decade in American horse racing history. Set 10 records including 2 world records without exertion. Broke track records in training on MUD. Defeated older, champion, horses on dirt and turf. Simply the best of all time. Again, OPhar Lap extremely overrated.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 16 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Phar Lap did not carry massive weights. He was significantly over scale, for his age, a mere 3 times. Carried paltry weights at 2 and 3YO. Ran on the easier turf surface. Did NOT race against America's best. Very slow time, considering he was 5YO and carrying only 129 at the Agua. very overrated.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
yeh he was amazing !!! he died of a foot infection/disease. Well he was put to sleep wen the pain became 2 hard 2 bear!! R.I.P Secretariat xx
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Even the superhorse Phar Lap cant compare to Secretariat...shows you just how amazing Big Red was.I think Man O War is the only comparable horse and maybe the Bid or Europes wonder horse Seabird.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Phar Lap. A class above all others. Won Group 1's 1400m - 3200 m. Carried Massive weights that would be banned today.. Smashed America's best with a split hoof while breaking track record, and had never raced on dirt before. Ran againt all the best at age , open classes, any track. Secretariat did not achieve anything like this.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -16 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
we have a great grandaughter of secretariat! She's with no doubt has the best conformation of all our horses and we have a warmblood!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Guys you keep mentioning times but that is irrelevant because European horses especially in France go a relatively sedate pace for the first part of the race and the race really only takes place in the final two furlongs where as in the States horses tend to run from the off
Added 2 years ago by guest, -14 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat won 16 races, finished 1st a 17th time but was disqualified and placed 2nd, had 2 second place finishes, 1 third place finish and was out of the money only once when he finished fourth in his first race after being "mauled" out of the starting gate by a horse named Quebec. Note, he should have been scracted in two of his losses due to illness. Where did you get your information from - a bubble gum machine???
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
You know what, I was wrong.....and I'll admit when I am. Sec had 21 starts of which he placed 16 times and won the race outright 3. 16 places is great....although I would have liked to have seen more than 3 wins.....
Added 2 years ago by guest, -36 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Come on, Sec only started 16 races and won 3, I don't care how fast he was.....he ONLY WON 3 races.....let's see, 3/16 = 18.75 pct. In my book that shows exactly why this horse is overrated.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -51 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Omaha better than Secretariat or Man O'War or Seabird?Come on,thats just silly.I wish people would really think before they vote.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
FYI, the PREMIER thoroughbred speed analyst Andrew Beyer did a workup of Secretariat's stats in 2011 using an updated methodology. The results showed an absolutely incomprehensible 139 rating!!!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If you are looking for amazing "sectional" times, look no further than SEC's 23 second (some analysts actually think it was 22-4/5 seconds!) LAST QUATER MILE in the 1-1/4 mile Kentucky Derby to steal the win from Sham. What horse runs a final quater mile in a 1-1/4 mile race in 23 or 22-4/5 seconds, with EACH QUARTER FASTER THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE!!! My friend, you are also SO RIGHT in speaking to SEC's unfathomable burst of speed to go from last to first in the Preakness "3 WIDE" on an extremely sharp Pimilco turn since the track is only 1 mile! NO HORSE EVER could have possibly ran that fast so early in the race andthen "toyed" with Sham the last 1/4 - 1/8 mile being hand ridden! That is why SEC is the greatest horse ever...because he did things on a race track NO OTHER HORSE could accomplish!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I see what youre getting at.A champion horse just does enough to break from the pack and get the win regardless of time.Its a valid point.But this is what Sec did!Amazingly,he was never pushed and never felt the whip!In his greatest race,he was still accelerating.There was more in the tank and still his times are unmatched.Thats why he was the greatest ever!If Belmont doesnt convince you.look again at his Preakness.Came from right at the back,surged to the front in the space of 20 seconds and held it to the finish!A move that early would have finished lessermortals by the 1 mile mark.Hows that for sectional time?
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat holds 1 world record and its on dirt, a surface the MAJORITY of the world don't race on !! Do you think thats the reason it still stands ? Of course it is !! Track records mean NOTHING ! Check the lists of horses who hold track records anywhere and you'll find almost all of them were horses nobody even remembers. A track like Royal Ascot in England, for example, where many big races are run each year, has an uphill run in and therefore the times cannot be compared with most other tracks. A track like Moonee Valley in Australia, where they run the Cox Plate, is a tight turning track and its turf surface is strathayr. This is not conductive to running fast times. Does this mean Frankel, who's currently rated the world's best racehorse, is no good as he's not running fast time at Royal Ascot relative to the world record over the corresponding distance ? Was Sunline, who won in 3 countries, a hack because her 2 Cox Plate winning times were not close to the world record ? Of course not. Times should never be used as an indicator as to the merits of a horses greatness or for that matter when doing the form for the races this weekend. They are a useful indicator in sprint races but as the distances increase times become more irrelevant. Sectional time relative to race tempo is far more important than overall time. I concede times are much more important in the US as most of your tracks are very similar but to the majority of the world they don't mean too much. A champion horse who is a backmarker has no real say in the time it runs if the horses go slow up the front. If the champion horse keeps winning when coming from behind and thus it's finishing sectionals are continually superior, that is the mark of its greatness, more so than the overall times it achieved. Nobody would argue regarding Secretariat being a champion but it's more got to do with the races he won, the opposition he beat, his winning margins and his overall record for most people
Added 2 years ago by guest, -38 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
So what is your point? Just for the record, Secretariat did RUN 2 turf races in his last 2 wins and his FIRST turf performance resulted in a STILL STANDING 1-1/2 mile track record time of 2:24-4/5 which covers over 140 years! Also, 9 of the official 10 distance records between 1 and 2 miles were recorded on TURF justifying that fast DIRT times are more dfficult to post. The MAIN POINT is that as a 3-year-old, Secretariat posted SIX...I repeat SIX STILL STANDING world or track records in his 12 races. I want you to sit back and think about that statistic...in HALF of his 12 races, he ran the distance faster than any horse has ever run in 100+ years...NO HORSE COMES EVEN CLOSE TO SUCH A FEAT!!! Furthermore, in his last 3 wins as a 3-year old, he absolutely CRUSHED 4, 5 and 6 year-old CHAMPION race horses by 4 - 10 lengths! I certainly am NOT blind to the fact that the European tracks reflect a significant inconsistency in their surfaces and that has to be taken into account, making the comparison between North American and European/Australian/etc. horses a near impossible task. However, in ANY sport, ratings are typically based on STATISTICAL FACTS, and until you or any other genius can come up with a more sophisticated rating scale for ALL world class horses, there can be no more sensible measuring/benchmark tool than the time it takes for a horse to complete his race because we are talking about a "race" for which the winner has posted the fastest time!!!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 19 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Nobody else in the world races on dirt !! Not going to say he was not a great champion but the majority of the world races on turf so a distance record on dirt means nothing to anybody outside of the US. Just like everything else, Americans seem to think the world starts on the east coast of US and finishes on the west coast of US. In racing it's called Breeders Cup World Championships, in baseball its called World Series, you call the NBA winner the world champion and the US is the only country (besides Canada) where the teams come from. It's really quite hilarious. Distance records have NOTHING to do with how good a horse was, outside of North America. The most important thing is race record. North American racetracks are basically all the same whereas you will find no two racetracks the same anywhere else in the world. I'm suprised an American track has not been set up into lanes like an athletics track. If you want to continually talk about times then why not ? Every horse can run precisely the same distance and there will be no interference from other horses.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -45 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The 1 1/2 mile dirt is a WORLD RECORD not an American record.Turf is faster anyways.Also he still holds the 3 track records of the premier North American racetracks 40 years on.Thats unprecedented.No European horse has a TR 40 years on.His one weakness as I see it was he tended to give up if blocked.But by far and away the greatest horse that ever lived.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
His Belmont run was the greatest by any horse of all time.American,Canadian,British,French,you name it.No horse has ever run like that!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat was unquestionally a champion. I find it hard to fathom how many here call him undoubtedly the best ever and easily no. 1 etc. These so called world records are not world records but rather North American records. The only record that counts is a horse's overall record and longevity should also be highly regarded. Almost all of the world races on turf, not dirt. There are many great champions from other parts of the world who raced as 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 yo etc. Champions who raced left and right handed on different shaped tracks etc. Not trying to knock Secretariat but I certainly don't say he was clearly no. 1 either. Probably No. 1 in USA though. Many great horses from Europe and Australia and now Japan but its a very subjective exercise.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -35 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To the individual who boldly stated that Man o' War would have bested Secretariat 9 out of 10 times I would love to hear your logic. Here is my logic: Secretariat's times at EVERY fraction BOTH horses ran absolutely "blow away" Man o' War! Now I do understand Man o' War carried more weight and the tracks were not as sophisticated, but the time differentials are so vastly lopsided it is obvious that Secretariat would have bested Man o' War "at least" 75% of their hypotehetical matches. You are speaking solely to emotion with your zeal obviously blinding you to the truth!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Absolutely incorrect! As a 3 year old, Secretariat "crushed" many 4, 5 & 6 year olds in his last four races by 4 to 10 lengths including Canada's 5 year old horse of the year Kennedy Road (twice SEC blasted Kennedy Road), 4 year-old Riva Ridge who was the prior year's Kentucky Derby/Belmont Champion and still owns the 1-3/16 mile fastest dirt track time, Champion 4 year old TURF horse Tentam who was ranked as the BEST turf horse in North America, and California 6 year-old champion Couger II. These are only a few of the older horses that looked like yearlings next to Secretariat! Regardless, here is the BOTTOM LINE: Secretariat's world class record times prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the aforementioned horses he embarrassed is not even an issue because MANY of his times have not been matched by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. ....year olds! In other words, while SEC DID crush older champion horses, virtually 99.9% of ANY HORSES could not match his record times so what is the difference??? His earth shattering performances would have BESTED ANY HORSE regardless of age with that statement 100% backed up by his world class times!!!!!!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 16 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Is it true Secretariat NEVER raced out of restricted grade ? How can he be called the greatest when he never raced against all comers but was rather restricted to races of his own age. Champion 3yo but best ever ? Spare me.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -37 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariats records still stand 38 years later. HOY twice. ran Derby in successive 1/4's faster than the last. Single most dominating performances ever witnessed. Won each TC race in a different and in an astounding manner. no horse comes close.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Man O'War would have beaten Secretariat 9 times out of 10.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -35 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Overall, secretariat has better race times and lengths than sea bird 2 or any other racehorse in history. Every book you read will spin their wishes wherever they want but the numbers speak for themselves. Of all the racehorses in history there is no other racehorse which has leapt out of the pages as secretariat has. It seems that this horse loved to run more than any other, that and likely he had the love infused around him necessary to run so gloriously.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Like Ali - The Greatest
Added 2 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat was quite clearly the greatest of all time.Only horse to touch him would be Man O'War or possibly Phar Lap.Seabird was great too but times werent fast enough.His timeform is overblown.Sec definitely first though.No doubts.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
i'm surprised big red is not #1.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Everyone needs to sit back and listen to your selves. Its ridiculous how pissed you guys are about which race horse is better. How about this for a change, numbers never lie and you win some, you lose some. But in the end, it comes down to times, age, and well of course a triple crown. That is that, good by.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I've never been to a horse race in my life, nor am I a big fan of the sport. However, I do love sports. Secretariat's romp at the Belmont is easily the finest non-stop 2 1/2 continual minutes in sporting history. Not even Chamberlain's 100 point game compares, as it took him all game. One must remember that on the day of the Belmont, millions of non racing fans from around the world turned on their TV's to see for the 1st time a horse that everybody was talking about. Not only did Secretariat deliver, but he beat the hype from wire to wire. An astonishing display that will be referenced for as long as people talk about horse racing and sport in General. This very well may be the holy grail of sporting records....and it still stands almost 40 years later!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
This is so US centric, you need to break this down into differnt distances and surfaces. to say LAmmtarra wa sthe best because he held the course record for the Derby is ludicrous. Just look at Dancing Brave who came from last to first ( almost at epsom. his tiome for the last two furlongs is regarded as the best and quickest finish to that race and then the ground conditions make or break records. undoubtedly the best horse of recent time is See the Stars, won everything with a turn of pace that has startled all before him. can go from the front or coem out f the pack. I would match him against any. Talking of the greatest race horses of all time there is only one...ARKLE..
Added 2 years ago by guest, -7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The experts say Man O'War and Secretariat.Sec has much better times but ran in competitive era with less weight.We can safely say these 2 are the greatest US horses.I like Seabird and Nijinsky for best European.Whos better overrall?Only God knows for sure...but I would say that Sec's Belmont race was the best ever display of power by a horse.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I think Secretariat was amazing and his Belmont win was incredible. But Man O War won a race by 100 lengths. In fact he retired because no one would race him. I am a Man O War fan but the movie about Secretariat gave me a love and appreciation for him. If Disney would make a movie about Man O War, maybe the Sec fans would appreciate him as well. We saw Sec run. We didn't have the privilege to see Man O War run. So it's not right to compare what you saw to what you didn't.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
AWESOME points & regarding his illness, SEC detractors FORGET that Man o' War was scracthed from the most prestigious race in America (the Kentucky Derby) because he had a virus, while Ruffian was scrathed from a major stakes race in the fall of 1974 due to a low grade fever. Simply put, horses CANNOT run well when they are ill (didyou ever try going to the gym with a virus/fever???), but Penny & Lauren knew they couldn't scratch SEC because of the 25,000+ people who came out to the track to see him run. Many experts clearly state SEC was mishandled and should have never been beaten. One last thought...how many people realize that SEC's quarter mile fractions in the Kentucky Derby were faster than each preceding fraction, a REMARKABLE accomplishment over a 1-1/4 mile race. To steadily increase your speed from start to finish over that distance should be virtually impossible...who does that! SEC was, indeed, the greatest horse who ever graced a racetrack!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat holds the STILL STANDING fastest recorded times in the world on dirt all the way from 1 3/16 to 1 5/8 miles in HISTORY and is just 0.2 seconds off the current 1 1/8 mile world record. He NEVER lost a race that was not caused by ill health (x2), unprepared replacement for other horse in long distance race (x1), severe interference (x1) or unfair disqualification (x1). Excluding these factors, he won his remaining 16 races all by handsome margins of multiple lengths, never a photo finish. Under healthy and fair conditions he would beat ANY horse put against him, not by a nose but by a margin of lengths.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Simply the Best ever. When he died, an autopsy revealed a heart over twice the size of his average competitor.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I think that Secretariat is and always will be the greatest racehorse. The only reason he lost the 2 races was the fact that his jockey was just overall bad, and the second time was due to a abscess. If he didn't have that I feel he could have won that race.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great point and ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON THE MARK! I find it interesting that Man o' War was scratched for the Kentucky Derby, thus preventing him from being a TC winner. In fairness to MOW he was most likley "under the weather" and appropriately scratched. Unfortunately, Secretariat was NOT scratched for two of his 3 losses as a 3-year old when he was ill and don't believe for one second Tweedy & Lauren didn't know he was far less than 100%. There was NO WAY Sec was being scratched for the Wood Memormial when his recent $6M investors showed up to the race. Secondly, more than $50,000 jammed Sratoga to see Sec run in the Whitney and fever or not, he was going to run. Turcott "begged" Lauren to scratch him but Lauren refused, saying he would put another jockey on Sec if Turcott refused to ride him. Secretariat was a victim of his superior greatness since his owner and trainer assumed his uncanny ability could overcome even illness and sub-par training (Woodward Stakes).
Added 2 years ago by bigred, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To all those people who keep citing Secretariat's 3 losses at three...he showed those losses were flukes (abscess, illness with fever, last minute sub on the slop while preparing for a turf race a week later), by killing the field and setting a track or world record after each loss - Derby (still standing TR), Marlboro Cup (WR for 1 1/8), MOW Stakes (TR in first race on grass). Secretariat got a virus in the fall of '73 that would have put most horses out for the season - he was therefore below form after the TC races, but still won major races. SUPER HORSE!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Thank you! Finally somebody that knows a bit or two about race horsing. Prove Out was a super and vastly under rated horse. In fact, in most experts eyes, he still reigns as the only horse who legitimately bested Secretariat (Sec's other defeats were related to illness & literally being "mauled" out of the starting gate in his 1st race). True, Sec should have never run in this race because he was training on grass for the Woodward. Regardless, I don't think ANY HORSE could have bested Prove Out that day since his 2:25-4/5 time in the mud was too incredible for even Sec to match! No doubt Secretariat was the greatest horse ever but on that 1973 wet day, Prove Out reigned supreme!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There was nothing "very average" about Prove Out. He had a career plagued by injuries and bad handlers. However, after Allen Jerkens got a hold of him and he was in good health, he showed he go run right up there with the all time greats. In the 1973 Woodward, he whipped Secretariat on a sloppy track that Steve Haskins said "wasn't playing fast at all and turned in the 2nd fastest 1 1/2 mile in history at 2:25.8. He gave up 7 pounds to Secretariat in doing so. A few weeks later, he crushed Secretariat's great stablemate, Riva Ridge, in the 2 mile Jockey Club Gold Cup by 33 lengths in 3:20. The only horse ever to run faster at this distance was Kelso in 3:19.2.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Let's just wait until the Arc before you start singing the praises of SYT. I would like to see how he copes with the devastating finishing kick of the Epsom Derby winner Pour Moi, who will be much better suited to the Longchamps track than he was with Epsom.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I am the individual who posted the tip regarding So You Think at Royal Ascot but was not counting on diabolical tactics employed by the trainer and an equally diabolical ride by Britains 'No 1' jockey in Ryan Moore which had they not have occured would have had SYT winning the race easily. This lends support to a previous posters comment stating that records of horses are tarnished by factors beyond their control that subsequently bring them undone such as pilot error, interference and farcicly paced races. In saying that the top ten horses listed are pretty spot on however, an Australian horse called Carbine mounts a pretty spectacular argument for inclusion... A record equal to and perhaps superior than Phar Lap and was an entire that subsequently excelled at stud. Bit of Aussie pride here if you couldn't tell.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -21 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I hope that I did not offend you in any way with my comments, that wasn't my intention. Red Rum's Grand National record as you mentioned in an earlier post will NEVER be equalled let alone beaten. He was without any doubt the most loved racehorse this side of the pond. On the subject of the US. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the United States,in my humble opinion, is the greatest country on the planet, I really do believe that and I feel I am well qualified to say this as I shall be spending my 10th vacation in your great country next week. All the Americans I have met since 1999 have been friendly,helpful and extremely hospitable and I cannot speak highly enough of them. You also have some of the most wonderful scenery on earth. I fell in love with the USA the very first time I visited the country in 1999 and will never take my vacations anywhere else. My best wishes to you,my friend.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I am prepared to concede that I am not qualified to comment on Red Rum's position as a steeplechaser.I said that it was just my opinion.I do find it bizarre that hes not in the top ten steeplechasers but European racing is very different.HAndicap or not,the horse still has to jump those 40 fences,negotiate the traffic of fallers and unseated horses and time his run to the finish to perfection(jockey).If you Brits say he wasnt one of the best then okay I'll acccept that.He's your horse.Just so you know,Aintree is your most famous race,far more famous to non-UK people than your derby or arc or gold cup.Its watched religiously this side of the pond.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I would concur 100 per cent with the last contributor regarding the undeniable greatness of Secretariat, his race record is beyond dispute. Red Rum, as anyone who knows anything about British National Hunt racing will tell you, was most definitely NOT one of the great steeplechasers to have raced in Britain and Ireland. If Secretariat had won the biggest handicap race in the US on three occasions do you think that he would have been regarded the greatest American racehorse ever? No,of course he wouldn't. But that is what the guy who thinks that Red Rum three Grand National wins in a handicap race amounts to. Please,if you don't know what you are talking about it's best to say nothing at all on the subject, with respect.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To state Secretariat is overrated is ignorant. Obviously racehorses in different countries run different types of races. That being said, anyone with a brain stem who saw his performances in the 1973 Triple Crown races saw BRILLIANCE on the part of this Athlete. He was, and for many will remain, a national treasure. Has any naysayer in this group 'bested' Sec's time at Belmont? Obviously not. His records speak for themselves. He was a phenomenon, with far better manners & dignity than some of the clowns on this discussion. Case closed.
Added 3 years ago by scgloe1, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I cant comment further on Red Rum except to say that he did win Aintree 3 times and no other horse will match this.Ever.That is his record like it or not and you can throw all the academia you want at it but the record speaks for itself.Same for Secretariat.His record immediately silences any attempt to take away what is rightly his.We have nothing to fall back on but the record.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I will just give you one example to prove to you that Red Rum WASN'T the best steeplechaser or even one of the best . In the 1973 Grand National Crisp carried top weight of 12 stone (168 pounds) and Red Rum was set to carry 10stone 4 pounds (144pounds) , Crisp was jumping superbly despite his huge weight and it was only in the last few yards that Red Rum managed to pass Crisp to win by just over a length. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that Crisp would have beaten Red Rum if they were both carrying the same weight. Crisp was a very good chaser but by no means one of the best. I can assure you that Red Rum was definitely NOT one of the greatest chasers, but he was much loved by his millions of adoring fans which probably gives people like yourself a misleading impression that he must have been one of the greatest jumpers, which is simply not true.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
We're never going to agree which is fine.A top thoroughbred runs maybe 20 races in his race career and has 2 possibly 3 years to shine.What does he leave behind for posterity in this small window?How many wins in 1st class races,how many TC wins,how many TR's,how many WR's?Sure the horse is probably going to have a few off days and get beaten...the judges take account of that.But this is essentially the footprint on time that the horse leaves.Theres nothing else to judge the horse by.If you have a better system let the judges know please. As to Red Rum,I'll say this...his 3 wins and 2 seconds in the MOST DIFFICULT RACE IN THE WORLD in my humble opinion automatically qualify him as one of,if not the greatest jump horse ever.The horse that won 5 Cheltenhams must be up there as well but Id say3 AIntrees > 5 Gold Cups.Championship races or not,the AIntree course is a greater test and so it must carry more weight!!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Clearly I am unable to convince you that the only way to determine one horse's superiority over another is when they race against each other and one or other prevails,which is common sense in anyone's language. Secretariat couldn't break track records every time he raced,nor could he win every race he contentested by 31 lengths, which emphasises the fact that he was not a machine,just flesh and blood. As for Red Rum. You must understand that the Grand National is a unique race,totally different to any other type of jump race. Very few of the top chasers ever contest the race because they would be handicapped with huge weights which would give the others carrying much lower weights a distinct advantage. On a park course, which is any other racetrack in the country, Red Rum's race record was very ordinary indeed. To put that into perspective here is Red Rum's record at Aintree: Ran 5 times, won 3 times and was second twice. Now compare that with his race record on all the other tracks he raced on: Ran 98 times,won 19 placed 36 ,unplaced 42 and he fell once. I think that you will agree that on the balance of his form he was a much better horse when he ran at Aintree than when he ran on other courses. Red Rum was never good enough to contest the championship races such as the Cheltenham Gold Cup and the King George VI Chase. The stark fact is that if the Grand National didn't exist as a race then I'm afraid Red Rum would never have achieved the fame and recognition that he has.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I never said it was easy as 1,2,3 to decipher a horse's record and come up with a rating.Its complex.Very complex.But this is indeed what they do.Head-to-head is impossible for obvious reasons and is in anycase an unsatisfactory way of ajudicating it,if it were possible.eg,SEC ran the 3 greatest races in US history in succession but lost to Onion.Ok,so Onion is better??????No,for obvious reasons they take the overall record.If Lammtarra isnt Europe's greatest horse,then what about Nijinsky.His record was damn good in that he won the TC.It cant be Seabird because saying how effortless and majestic he was JUST DOESNT CUT IT.You have to win the TC and the times must be top notch.Its flat racing for chrissakes!!What else is there except times to indicate greatness!!!!!AS regards Red Rum,true I dont know much about the jumps but I do know he won AIntree a record 3 times.As that is the worlds most difficult jump course,if it were being judged this side of the Atlantic,then he would figure VERY PROMINENTLY.Only common sense.Also he never fell in 100 races,am I right?
Added 3 years ago by guest, -6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
No, I'm afraid that Lammtarra wouldn't be Europe's biggest contender as the course record he established when winning the Epsom Derby was bettered last year when Workforce set the new figures. Lammtarra's Prix de l'arc de Triomphe time has also been bettered by others. That is not to say that Lammtarra wasn't the best European racehorse, but that can never be proved.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I understand that you know nothing about National Hunt racing in the British Isles and Ireland, as Red Rum wouldn't make the top 10 of the best steeplechasers of all time and that is FACT, whatever anyone else says to the contrary. As for who was the greatest flat performer of all time, the question is purely academic as there is no conceivable way of proving it. Extrapolations of form, time, records, quality of opposition,winning distances,etc don't count for a hill of beans. The only definitive proof that horse A is superior to horse B is when the two horses race head to head and one or the other prevails. All you are doing in these posts is propounding an unsubstantiated opinion. Please don't misunderstand me , there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not dogmatically asserted to be a fact.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Of course you judge a horse by its record.The win-lose ratio is not really important but is considered.The number of wins in big races and the margins therein are the next marker.Then the number of track records.And finally the number of world records.Secretariat still has 4 TR's and 1 WR 40 years after retiring.This is unmatched and so he is de facto the greatest of all time.4 TR's(belmont,preakness,derby,marlboro), 3 WR's(1 1/8.1 1/4 ,1 1/2 dirt) with just 1 still remaining (1 1/2 dirt) and largest margin ever in 1st class horserace((31 lengths).MOW had numerous records but of course all broken now.I wouldnt argue with anyone who tied these two for the win but officially SEC is the greatest racehorse of all time.And Seabird?Holds no TR or WR whatsoever and never did.Times and records count for a lot in flat racing.Dont let anyone tell you differently.Lammtarra would be Europe's biggest contender.Its only in the jumps that times dont count.Greatest jump horse must be Red Rum or Arkle but thats not my area so dont quote me.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
most australian horses are not that good and not in the same class as european and american horses. there has never been an australian winner of the breeders cup which only goes to prove how poor australian horses are
Added 3 years ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I bet the guy who said that So You Think would win at Royal Ascot feels an idiot. What a donkey that horse is. Secretariat would have given So You Think 2 furlongs start and still beaten him easily.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
You might not like the head to head encounter scenario, but that is the ONLY way that a definitive conclusion to an argument involving two or more racehorses is ever settled. I could say that Secretariat was superior to Man O'War, but how can I possibly prove that assertion. The simply answer is I can't, nor can anyone else.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I dont like the head-to-head analogy one bit.Look at Secretariat being beaten by Onion.Sec had the inside line which he hated.He always ran his best on the outside going wide and clear.If youlook at the race where he gets beaten by Onion,you can see that hes effectively blocked and cant get through.So I dont go with head to head analogies one bit.What if one horse is running a temperature or has an abcess?If my life was at stake I wouldnt take the bet in the above scenario.If it was just money,Id put everything I could afford to lose on Secretariat.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
In any hypothetical horse race involving all the great racehorses in the history of thoroughbred racing,few would argue that Secretariat would start favorite. On the balance of his record alone, which includes being in possession of the fastest times in two of the three legs of the Triple Crown, and with very strong claims of having recorded the fastest time in the third leg also,despite an electronic failure in the timing for that race. Secretariat has,rightly in my opinion, been the benchmark by which all other racehorses are judged.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
While I am certainly partial to Secretariat, I would also take Sea Bird II, Man o'War or Spectacular Bid. While Sea Bird II only ran 8 races, his performances were virtually effortless, Man o' War's lregacy speaks for itself and Spectacular Bid may be the most under rated horse ever!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
What I would say is that Secretariat is in possession of all the requisite attributes if you MUST have one horse to run for you ,if your life depended on it.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I'm NOT so brave! I only meant if you HAD NO CHOICE but to choose a single horse over that distance it would be Secretariat!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
All I can say to you,my friend, is that your are a much braver man than I. But then we all possess a certain degree of bravado when there is no likelihood of being put to the test. I suspect that in the event of a real life situation, where your life is on the line, then you might not have the courage of your current convictions.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
You make a super point my friend because NOTHING in any sport is a guarantee. Who would have thought that a tiny horse named "Prove-Out could run a 2:25-4/5 second time in the mud over a 1-1/2 mile track (one of the fstest 1-1/2 mile times EVER) and best Secretariat??? To place Prove-Out's time in perspective, Seattle Slew ran a 2:29+ in his Belmont Stakes TC "in the mud" win which means Prove-Out would have bested Slew that day by almost 16 lengths!!! What I am saying is based on your analysis, "if you had a gun to your head" and had to pick a horse to win a 1-1/2 mile run, I think you would go with Secretariat!!! Other than that, no one knows with 100% certainty what would happen.
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Let us, for a moment at least, delve into the realms of fantasy and imagine a purely hypothetical situation. Assembled in a World Championship race ,run over a distance of 1mile 4 furlongs , are the following horses: Secretariat, Man O'War, Citation, Phar Lap, Native Dancer, Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew and Dr Fager. My apologies to anyone who feels that other great racehorses should be included in this imaginary race, but I had to draw the line somewhere. Now the question I would like to ask is this: If it was possible to bring these great racehorses together in one race, and if your life depended on selecting the winner of this race, how confident would you be to have one horse running for you with the outcome determining whether you live or die? Personally, I would not even consider it, because I couldn't be 100 per cent certain of the outcome. Yes, I know that this is a totally impossible scenario, but what I have tried to highlight here is the pointlessness of trying to compare one racehorse with another when they are generations apart. Secretariat statistical record is,indeed, superior to any other racehorse,but you cannot dogmatically claim that because he set more records than any other horse,that this automatically means that he would have beaten all the other great racehorses of history in a head to head physical encounter. Because Usain Bolt smashed Michael Johnson's World 200 metres record, and is also the World record holder at 100 metres,does this mean that in a head to head encounter of both these athletes at their peak that Bolt would have beaten Johnson over 200 metres? I,for one, would'nt have been prepared to predict the result.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There is way too much emphasis placed on a horses record, especially considering the myriad of factors that go into a race including: (1) competition, (2) age & related handicaps, (3) Jockey error(s), (4) track surfaces/conditions, etc. Babe Ruth struck out a seemingly countless number of times, Michael Jordan lost baseketball games, Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson lost fights (and they WERE the best, pound for pound at their craft), Sandy Koufax was beaten by inferior teams and the list goes on and on. Yet, as an example, these sports icons will forever be the the benchmark for all to follow at their craft. Secretariat did lose some races and whether you believe there were extraordinary circumstances impacting most of those loses (which there were!) is NOT THE ISSUE. As one of the previous "guests" recently stated, Secretariat's records in the Triple Crown still reign supreme (except the Preakness which was only tied, not broken) almost 40 years later, a virtual unfathomable fact! Are you kidding me...the same horse owning ALL 3 RECORDS! Sec simply did things on a Mile+ surface that reached beyond the assumed limits of a race horse. Bottom line is Secretariat at his finest was " the best of the rest", a sheer running machine that is the closest thing to perfection we will ever see on a race track.
Added 3 years ago by bigred, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
As much as I respect your opinion and, believe me, I do, no amount of statistical data and analysis can compensate for physical confirmation. As a physical encounter is palpably out of the question ,then it is not possible to arrive at an incontrovertible conclusion of one horse's superiority over another. Just to clarify the position of Ali being 8 years older than Foreman. It is a recognized fact of heavyweight boxing that heavyweights do not reach their prime until well into their 30's, so clearly the age factor was not a detrimental factor here. Incidentally Foreman regained the world heavyweight title when he was well into his 40's some 20 years later.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I dont agree.It doesnt allow for variables(eg in your example,Ali was OLDER-8 yrs?- and not in his prime).One day Secretariat loses to Onion or Prove Out and the next day he runs like an equine God.You have to judge the athlete.man or beast,at his best.I mean what if Phelps gets beat at London Olympics?Does that mean he is no longer the greatest swimmer of all time and the gold medallist is?Secretariat has run the THREE greatest races in succession(one of them WR never to be beaten).I think this is enough to make a conclusion without being subjective.I really do.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
No, I'm afraid that a horse's record; number of wins against losses and the standard of opposition it defeated and the time comparisons still wouldn't solve the argument. Let me give you a boxing analogy to try and explain the difficulty in going on records instead of face to face encounters. I'm sure that nobody would argue that prior to the "Rumble in the Jungle" George Foreman's boxing record was superior to Muhammad Ali's ( Foreman had annihilated Frazier; Ali found Frazier a real handful. Foreman was unbeaten; Ali had been beaten. Foreman had more knockouts on his record than Ali. Foreman went into the fight with Ali an overwhelming favorite; few people gave Ali much of a chance against the ferocious punching power of Foreman. The rest,as they say,is history. Ali made Foreman look like a complete novice. I stand by what I said in my previous post . Hypothesis is the enemy of reason and logic. It is only when two horses,fighters,athletes, or whatever ,compete against one another can there be an indisputable outcome. Anything else is merely dabbling in the realms of subjective opinion.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Very difficult to judge something like this.A horse can have an off day,a poor jockey,an unlucky line etc so going head-to-head may not be as decisive/fair as you think.The record must be the decider;number of wins vs losses( and the quality of the competition in those wins!) and the times.How else can you do it?You cant confuse greatest with favorite and be emotional about it.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
In the final analysis, regarding the argument as to who was the greatest racehorse in the history of thoroughbred racing, the answer is quite obvious to anyone with a reasonable,logical mind; WE WILL NEVER KNOW! All these assertions that Secretariat or Man O'War,or Citation or whoever is the best is nothing more than hypothesis. Only when two or more horses race against each other can an issue of who was the best ever be proved. In the case of the horses that have been mentioned that is evidently impossible. We can all expound our theories that this or that horse was the greatest ,but they are just that,theories. If any horse can be beaten in its racing career then who is to say that he might not have been beaten by one of the horses from an earlier period. You should all keep in mind this undeniable truism of thoroughbred racing: HORSES ARE FLESH AND BLOOD; THEY ARE NOT MACHINES!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I think iconic racing analyst Charles Hatton, who just happened to see BOTH Man o' War and Secretariat said it best..."Secretariat's only point of reference is HIMSELF"...boldly admitting Secretariat was, indeed, the more superior horse than Man o' War. Of course, we will never know for sure since they were both incredible horses. However, when a racing icon such as Hatton who saw BOTH horses run claims Sec was the best horse ever, you can't help but listen!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 8 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To the last poster..I think what you say is very very true except for one horse.Big Red.His feats were breathtaking and clearly unrivalled in any era.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Calling Secretariat just a "good" horse is loony.His TC wins are the greatest in American racing.His Belmont run will NEVER be surpassed.Please review your inane remarks.Being unbeaten is a nice accolade but is ultimately immaterial.Zenayatta won19/19 before being beaten..does it make her greatest?Of course not.Man O'War was a legend but still behind Big Red.If we adjust his times for weight/unadventurous trainer/the era he ran in, HES STILL BEHIND BIG RED.Those are the facts.Th only question remaining is there a non-US horse to rival Big Red?My answer is unequivocally NO but Im open to discussion.As an aside,Spectacular Bid would take my vote as 2nd greatest US horse behind Bg Red ahead of MOW.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
All I ever hear from you Big Red fans about his defeats are EXCUSES! EXCUSES! and wait for it....more EXCUSES! Bottom line is Secretariat was a good horse but a long way short of being the best. Oh, and by the way , your English grammar leaves a lot to be desired,as does your spelling!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -16 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Whoever you are you obviously don;t have a clue about what you are taking about. Do you realize that when Prove Out beat Secretariat he ran an incredible 2:25-4/5 mile and a half in the MUD which is the 3rd or 4th fastest 1-1/2 mile time EVER on a dirt surface (hmmm....I wonder who hold the record at 2:24!!!!). Secretariai was THROWN into that race at the "11th" hour because Riva Ridge couldn't race in the mud and Sec still ran a fantastic 2:26-3/5 second time that would have blown away any of the so called "30 horses" you stated in your prior note...still one of the top 10 fastest 1-1/2 mile dirt times. Regarding Onion, Sec had a 101/102 tempature and should have NEVER raced that day. In fact, Turcott REFUSED to ride him beacuse he was sick but when Lauren threatened to simply find another jockey, Turcott gave in. Please do your homework before making future ludicrous statements! Bottom line is I shouldn't even respond to anyone that says 30 or more horses are better than Secretariat because you are obviously jealous of "Big Red" and your comments are as tainted as your knowledge of race horsing. Sec is the greatest horse ever...PERIOD!!!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There are 30 or more horses on this list who would have left Secretariat trailing in their wake. Are you seriously expecting me to believe that Onion and Prove Out would have beaten Man O'War, Citation, Phar Lap, Ruffian,Spectacular Bid and many,many others too numerous to mention? No, the sad fact is that all you Big Red fans are wearing hoods. I suggest you take them off and take a look at the real world and not the fantasy world you all live in.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Oh and just in case anyone asks who Lammtarra is , just take a look at him winning the Epsom Derby on his first run of the season ( second run ever ) not only winning going away , but broke the course record ,then won the King George at Royal Ascot and finished off by winning the Arc the hard way , from the front.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Love to have seen him race against Lammtarra at Epsom . Im sure it would have been a very close race
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Definitely America's greatest horse of all time but was he better than Europe's best?how do you measure that?Is there a world rating?
Added 3 years ago by guest, -7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There are lots of these lists on the internet and the three names that come up time and time again are Secretariat,Man O'War and Seabird.Personally,I believe the top 20 in history are all interchangeable...you cant pick one.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Well said. Very subjective indeed. However, what we do know is there are several races Secretariat ran in that NO HORSE EVER could have possibly beaten him. Races such as his Kentucky Derby (1:59-2/5 record running WIDE through the entire race!), Marlboro Cup (1:45 in change and GALLUPING to a tie of Spectacular Bid's 1-1/4 mile world record of 1:57-4/5...ridiculous!), and the iconic Belmont Stakes he was unbeatable. It simply cannot be a coincidence that he still owns ALL 3 Triple Crown records (including an unoffiial tie in the Preakness due to a clock malfunction), and still world record owner of the 1-1/2 mile dirt time by a FULL SECOND or 5 lengths!!!! It is unfathomable that a horse can maintain such records overa nearly 40 year period, and that my friends is the true measure of "greatness". Any horse can have a super wining record if they are racing against sub-par competition , but "THE RECORD TIMES DON'T LIE"!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
As with most things in life we all have our different opinions and arefully entitled to express them. What many people are forgetting is that the opinions expressed about ALL the horses on this forum are just that opinions. There never can be an authoritative statement that this horse is better than that horse because they can never race against each other. No one can categorically claim that Secretariat would definitely have beaten Man O'War or Sea Bird would have beaten Ribot. I base this on the fact that Secretariat was beaten as was Man O'War so too Sea Bird. We should all of us accept that thoroughbred history on both sides of the Atlantic and Australasia has produced great racehorses and just be grateful that we have been privileged to have witnessed the exploits of those equine marvels.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I wish people would vote responsibly but having said that I think Secretariat is positioned about right.ie a good two lengths clear of his nearest rival so I suppose alls well that ends well.The people who really annoy me are those that claim hes over-rated as it flies in the face of reason.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I totally agree with the last contributor. This has now become a complete farce ,and all those people who have added their honest appraisals of the horses on this forum must be extremely annoyed at the way the mischief makers have spoiled things. To those responsible I will just say this: Grow up and start behaving like mature adults!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Greatest racehorse by a mile.Beaten 4 times?Dont care.You dont have to be unbeaten to be the greatest.Kincsem would have the title if that were the case.His Belmont run is the most superlative demonstration of equine power that theres ever been or ever will be.God's mount.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Hope you are right about So You Think. He was really impressive in Ireland when he won by 10 lengths. Might risk a £50 ante post bet on him for Royal Ascot.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -8 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Has Rewilding, among others, to beat at Ascot.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
A ludicrous exercise trying to rate turf horses over dirt horses and vice versa. They may as well be two different species. Here's a tip for the punters... So You Think in the Prince of Wales stakes at Royal Ascot. One that will be on future turf lists as one of the greats.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -17 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I love Secretariat.I watched the movie.I cant bellieve how unpopular Shan is now caus eof Secretariat!Now Secretariat is #1
Added 3 years ago by guest, -6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great horse indeed! But never as good as Sea bird. The Belmont stakes our the kentucky Derby are never as prestigious races as L'arc the thriomphe or King George VI and Queen Elisabeth stakes. America is just not as prestigious as Europe and the horses that Europe had were just a lot better (Montjeu, Hurricane run, seabird, ribot, sea the stars, zarkava, Shawanda, ... )
Added 3 years ago by guest, -9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Lochroe, I don't think so. Like DK46 said, it was Sec's natural build that (probably) would not offset him as a 4-5 year old. He was just a natural beast of a horse. We will never know for sure but it sure would have been nice to see Sec run as a 4-5 year old.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Isn't it possible, even probable, Dannykeith46, that Secretariat would never have been better than he was at three years? Not that that makes him other than one of the all-time greats.
Added 3 years ago by Lochroe, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I'm British and must concede that Secretariat was the greatest of all time.He ran from the back,toyed with the competition and was never ridden on yet still holds all 3 TC track records and the WR for 1 1/2.No horse,not even the effortless Seabird,compares.The bravest horse of all time was Red Rum.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To "Lochroe" - Well said and typically you would be correct but NOT with Secretariat. Keep in mind that people fail to realize "Sec" was roughly 50 - 100 lbs heavier than most race horses, topping scales at 1,100 lbs (his saddle size was exraordinary)! Most horses would have been considered overweight and/or "ot of shape" but "Sec's" extra weight was pure muscle and part of his "one of a kind" mystique. Virtually every expert agreed that extra weight would not have affected "Sec" at all because of his unique structure/build, and that 6 - 8 extra lbs would NOT have been nearly enough to negatively offset his STRONGER structure typically asscoiated with a 4 year old (I'm sure that 22 lb heart would not have hurt, either!). Trust me...at 4 Secretariat would have set unfathomable track records, and if you think the Belmont Stakes was special, I can't even fantasize what he might have done racing as a 4/5 year old. Regardless, as the old saying goes, "it is what it is" and all of these discussions only amount to pure conjecture. Happy horse rooting!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I don't argue with Dannykeith46 about Secretariat's prodigious ability, but it is wrong to assume that he would have maintained his superiority over his peers had he raced as a four-year-old. The weight for age scale indicates that horses ON AVERAGE improve about 6lb between the date of Secretariat's last race and the start of the following season, but some horses do not make the expected improvement, while others make much more. Very often, the champion three-year-olds are simply the most precocious of their age, which is why I reserve the ultimate accolade for the animal proving himself best when he and all his contemporaries race one another when they are fully mature.
Added 3 years ago by Lochroe, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Dead on - the greatest horse of all time by a mile.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Someone wants to say he wasnt a great horse, the best, really. Secretariat tore up the Belmont Stakes. He finished at what 31-32 Lengths. The reason Secretariat didn't win a couple was because he was sick. Another he was disqualified for a absolutley rediculous reason. But how could you POSSIBLY call this legendary horse overrated. I meat he won by o whopping 21 lengths, he was kicking butt. WAS AND IS the best racehorse. I can't believe this is even being argued over
Added 3 years ago by guest, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
you people think you know a lot about horse racing yes Secratariat may have lost 4 races but if you think about it he did win the triple crown im just sayin
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Jeepster by his own admission is a wind-up merchant, but even a wind-up merchant ought to know that Phar Lap was a New Zealand-bred who raced exclusively in Australia. And he should be able to spell Lasix correctly.
Added 3 years ago by Lochroe, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Yeah secretariat is the bomb the other horses you mentioned besides man. War I haven't heard of pry cause I don't follow horse racing or car to but like I said I don't follow the racing and still know how kickass secretariat was
Added 3 years ago by guest, -11 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I think secretariat should be 1st!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Apology not even necessary but sincerely appreciated! I find it truely amazing that us race horse attics can get so attached to these wonderful animals to the point of going to unending limits of battle for the ones we truely admire and love. Your passion for Se Bird speaks for itself and is an endearing quality that every horse enthusiast should be blessed with...bottom line is: may these "who's #1" arguments and horse racing itself echo for eternity!!! Best Regards to all!!!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I hadn't logged in when I submitted the above post and that is why it appears as being by a guest.
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I apologise unreservedly Dannykeith46 and must confess that I have been winding you up a bit in these posts. I totally agree with you. Secretariat,of course, was a truly phenomenal racehorse and unquestionably one of the all time greats,that is beyond dispute. Sea Bird, Man O' War, Phar Lap, Citation, Ribot and many others belong to that select group that can all be bracketed in the same class. Once again my sincere apologies to you and I extend my very best wishes to you .
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
And if SeaBird raced against "Big Red" at Belmont on June 9, 1973 he would be crossing the finish line just about now! Seriously though, the sad thing is I KNOW SeaBird was an incredible horse and undoubtedly one of the greatest. Regarding the greatest horse ever, it is SO subjective but radical comments such as yours are TOTALLY uncalled for. Secertariat was a perfect creature and has NEVER been seriously accused of taking performance enhancing drugs in the mainstream. To attack "Sec" like that only proves your undeniable fear of his iconic stature. I will not lower myself to your level anymore by responding to anymore of your $#@%$#, but end in saying BOTH "Sec" and Sea Bird were awesome and truely super horses!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
You should take those blinkers off ,Danny boy, and take a clear look at the real world!
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Dannykeith46,are you seriously claiming that Secretariat DIDN'T race without the aid of Lasics in his system,because if you are then you you are a bigger fool than I thought. It is common knowledge that Secretariat raced quite regularly with the aid of this drug, which would have got him banned from appearing on a European racetrack where racehorses only race on their merit. As for Secretariat beating Sea Bird ,yeh sure he would have. WITH A FURLONG START! There have been far better horses in the US than Secretariat, Man O' War, Phar Lap and Ruffian to name three. Get real Danny boy.
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, -7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Hey Jeepster...why don't you engage your brain before you engear your mouth!!! Secretariat NEVER took enhancement related drugs and was simply the BEST EVER on his OWN merit. You should be ashamed of yourself for even insinuating such a ludicrous statement. Just because "Big Red" would have kicked SeaBird's Ass on ANY Europeon surface doesn't give you the right to make false statements. Jealousy is a tough thing and I pity you for having to deal with the fact that SeaBird, or any other horse for that matter, would have gotten a great look a Secretariat's rear end at most finish lines. Please spare the racing horse community any more far fetched statements..."Big Red" was simply a "once in a lifetime" horse and you know it!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I doubt if Secretariat would have been the same horse if he had raced on merit instead of being pumped full of drugs such as Lasics,etc. One thing is absolutely certain he would not have been allowed on a European racetrack with all those performance enhancing drugs in his system. Epsom racetrack would definitely have found him out with its rollercoaster undulations.
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, -8 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
"I certainly don't subscribe to all the hype that Secretariat was greatest racehorse ever. He lost 4 of his 16 races and two of those losses were to very average horses in Prove Out and Onion. In my opinion Man O' War, Citation, Phar Lap and from Europe Sea Bird II and Ribot were better." i have no idea where this guy gets his facts...secretariat ran in 21 races not 16. he also finished in the money in 20 of those 21 races, winning 16. note the belmont by 31 lengths....not only that but one of his colts Canadian Bound set a record for sale of a yearling a 1.5 million dollars. so before you comment do your homework instead of talking out of your ASS!!!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Please relax with your "hyped to the max comment". Secretariat would beat ANY horse ANYWHERE...ANYTIME...when he was 100%. In fact, regarding your turf statement, that is absolutely ridiculous since he easily won his only 2 turf races (his last two races) with Lucien Lauren and other racing experts insisting he would have been even better on a turf surface. I don't think anyone can say who is the greatest race horse for sure, but undoubtedly Secretariat belongs on the list of potential candidates. To say he couldn't race with Europeaon horses on turf is absurd and consider how good he would have been as a 4 year old since, anatomically, Horses are far superior at 4 vs. 3! Unfortunately, due to his $6M syndication we were denied of the potential world records he would have continued to set as a 4 year old INCLUDING turf races. Why do you think Arcaro called him the best he ever saw...you are talking about the opinion of the jockey who rode CITATION...I do believe that says it all!!!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great Horse, fantastic few races but over hyped to the max, never travelled only ever raced in the states, cant be considered the best race horse ever over the back of a few wins and a few records... many many many horses of same calibre and better over much more distances. He never retired an unbeaten horse, I have no doubt he wouldnt have lived with the european horses of the time on the turf...
Added 3 years ago by guest, -10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Bull, Sea Bird II is the best horse of all time. His derby win was outstanding! He crused up and won with a tonne in hand. Secretariat can't hold a candle to this god of horses.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Anyone who can possibly state that Secretariat is over rated should not be part of this discussion and ste0 aside from further racehorsing analysis. Are you kidding me!!!! SEC did things on a racetrack that NO other horse EVER could posssibly match. Regarding his 4 losses (REMEMBER, one loss he did win but was disqualified for a ridiculous technicality), he was sick in 2 of those and should have NEVER run. Also, do you realize that in his other loss in the woodward stakes, Prove Out ran the 1-1/2 mile race in less than 2:26, one of the few horses ever to accomplish that feat on a dirt track....hmmm...I wonder who still holds the world record at 2:24 in the Belmont Stakes!!!! Do you also know that when SEC set the 1-1/8 mile record in the Marlboro Cup he GALLOPED to an unfathomable 1:57-4/5 mile and a quarter time....only a few fifths of a second from Spectacular Bid's world record mark....that is correct...after a 1/8 of a mile gallup!!!!!! The few racing analysts who saw Man o' War and Sec including the iconic Charles Hatton agree that Sec was the greatest horse ever. Even Eddie Arcaro who rode Citation gives the nod to Sec but then again, what does Arcaro know??? For all of you deadbeats who continue to consider Secretariat over rated, your opinions are, by far, the most shortsighted claims I have ever seen in any sports related discussion and an embarassment to both this forum and the racing industry. True, the title of "greatest ever" is very subjective and horses such as Man o'War, Citation, Count Fleet, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew Kelso, Ruffian, etc. could all be argubale choices. But the fact remains when Secretariat was right and at PEAK VALUE, he could do things on a racing tack far beyond the capabilty of virtually any other horse. Simply put, I pity those who would even consider the remote possiblity of calling him over rated and suggest you remain completely anonymous to avoid the utmost embarrassment of your peers!!!!!!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Overrated? Wow, if you can't see how amazing his Belmont stakes was then you're obviously blind. "The great American racehorses are all vastly overrated" and what exactly makes Euro horses better? Turf and dirt are two very different surfaces and this horse could run on both... impressively at that!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Absolutely one of the best! He lost his first start bumped around and ill ridden. He was moved from first to second for a jockey error. He had an unknown abcess once and a fever and infection twice in losing efforts. Check his times for the same distances and against virtually the same horses and distances when fit and well. Not too difficult to ascertain if fairly done. His times speak for themselves and even aging horsemen who saw all the greatest horses suggest strongly that Secretariat was the greatest horse ever seen.
Added 3 years ago by budoinst, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Hello? Did anyone even watch his Belmont run? He won by like 32 lengths!! There should be no doubting that he was one of the greatest! That horse was one of a kind and not at all overrated. There will never be any matching to him. Perhaps Seattle Slew but that can be debatable.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The great American racehorses are all vastly overrated, none more so than this one. His 22lb heart would have exploded had he tried his hand in a average handicap at Epsom let alone the Derby itself.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -16 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Amazing horse won the belmont stakes by 31 lengths and set a record there and at the kentucky derby. no horse ever come close. he was fast not to mention beautiful. And in case you people didnt know he was more than just some horse his heart weighed 22 pounds which exlpains how he can run at such a fast pace for so long. Too bad he died at 19 his life was just beginning...
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Most over rated horse ever lost 2 of his last 3 races on dirt to average horses,there are far better horses than Sec
Added 3 years ago by guest, -16 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Most overrated horse ever !!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -14 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Prove out was no "ORDINARY HORSE" look him up... If horses have a god his name is "Secretariat"...It's not just the record time but the way he ran those races,five wide in the first turn,3 wide in second?
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I certainly don't subscribe to all the hype that Secretariat was greatest racehorse ever. He lost 4 of his 16 races and two of those losses were to very average horses in Prove Out and Onion. In my opinion Man O' War, Citation, Phar Lap and from Europe Sea Bird II and Ribot were better.
Added 4 years ago by charwoody, -18 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Truly great horse ,there's absolutely no doubt about that.
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Man O' War Report Abuse
1008 points - added 5 years ago by arollison - 29 comments
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Deserves to be 2nd, Secretariat would be faster with the equipment and track. Secretariat was way better than Man o' War.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If you've never heard of Man o' War, what are you doing even reading this site much less posting on it?
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Never heard of Man of War? What did he win?
Added 1 year ago by guest, -27 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
i think man o war should have placed at least 3rd, probaley not first cause secretariat was a big yes for first, but 4th? i think he is better than that , i mean, i watch horse racing like no other and never even heard of ribot
Added 1 year ago by guest, -6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I think the 28ft stride is largely myth, it was never measured at that distance. The one time it was measured, it rated at between 25 to 26ft, after the Lawrence. The earliest recording of 28ft came in the Thoroughbred Record in 1920, but that was never corroborated. All the bios except for maybe one record 25 plus. A stride too long is detrimental to stride time which again is detrimental to acceleration. A horse would need a long stretch and high momentum to catch swifter front runners. Ridan (or was it Nadir) actually had a measured 28ft stride, but that horse lost many races to the shorter Kelso. Native Dancer, alleged to have had a 28 footer, won 20 of 21, but won many by small margins. There is an optimum stride length that maximizes efficiency with stride time, and that range is in the 25 ft domain, just where ManoWar's was. The horse had great acceleration for the short runs, and strides long enough to handle longer distances. The 28ft measure at Kentucky Horse Park is largely speculation, based on uncorroborated writings. ManOWar had the perfect balance, excellent distance per stride without decay to acceleration, a highly efficient design. sec
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I've read a lot of comments/arguments under both Man o' War and Secretariat. I cannot speak to non-American horses, as I am un familiar with them. I feel that Man o' War is the greatest Thoroughbred in American racing history. In setting numerous records (breaking one by 6 whole seconds!) Man o' War was running on slower tracks and was never fully extended. It is common knowledge that he finished almost all of his races under hard pull from his jockeys. He had an incredible 28-foot stride, which is part makes him truly the original BIG RED. At the end of his career, the only horses willing to enter a race against him were Sir Barton and Exterminator (who was scratched from the race and ran on another track that same day). So what does that say about the connections of Exterminator thinking their chances really were? Nothing could stop Man o' War. Sprint. Distance. His competitor in the Lawrence realization may have been outclassed, but that 100 length win was under tight rein. Even as a 2-year old, MoW was giving weight to his competition, carrying higher weights that most modern races are ever asked to carry in a race. His accomplishments simply cannot be denied,.
Added 2 years ago by Emerald01, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I know if you look at times secretariat seems faster but mow was never ever even close yo fully extended, the tracks in 1919 and1920 were not nearly as fast and even though he didn't win the triple crown he beat sir barton by 17 lengths easy. He set 3 world recordsat least 6 track records, lowered a track record by 6 seconds and won a race by over 100 lengths. He only lost once and that was because he was facing the wrong way whenvthe starting bell rang and he still almost won! Only a true champ can do that. Im not saying that secretariat wasn't one of the best cause he was om just saying i think mow was better but of course we'll never really know
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
i think that if you google manowar secretariat there is a paper there that goes through all of that, secretariat and manowar revisited; and dont forget the work by charles justice, a good exploration of American thoroughbreds, and of course the work by randall and morris, A Century of Champions. In the paper referenced, Time is the dependent variable, Foal Count, a proxy variable, the independent.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I'm sorry, I'm no mathmetician. Can you explain your study to me in layman's terms? I understand that you found times improved an average of 4 seconds in the Derby between 1920 and 1973, and you estimate that horses contributed to this by 52%. How did you set up your formula, what exactly are the dependent and independent variables? Thanks for your time!
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Also, peruse the Greatest Horse Controversy by Charles Justice. His analysis was far more detailed and he asserted that tracks didn't change all that much over time. Equipment contributed the most to change. When Fuestal made his 1/5th remark, it is not known what tracks he was referring to for all tracks vary not only in surface and consistency but also in design. My study looked at two specific tracks, Churchill Downs and Belmont for the years mentioned and for those tracks approx 2 seconds accounted for all factors other than the horse for 10 furlongs (at CD) and 3 seconds for 12 furlongs (at Belmont). Unfortunately this study lacked the ability to disaggregated the non-equine factors.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Horses that ran after 1973 cannot be accounted for in my study because they were not included. Still, we must distinguish between average finishing times and particular finishing times. Thru 1973 particular finishing times can be estimated within the parameters of my study, and thus actual finishing times compared. This is an exercise in handicapping. As for Farley, I believe he took the 1/5th mark from Fuestal, MOWs trainer, who speculated on this. I found Fuestal's remark in commentary. For my estimates, I used actual data. On average, most of the improvement on performance can be traced to better finishers from the years 1920 to 1973. There may be cases where an unusually slow pace can cloak an off track, and that may disrupt estimates. This is a question I raised with Count Fleet, Steve Davidowitz concurring.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
@guest: I respect your work with regards to Man o' War vs. Secretariat, but I must disagree with you. If tracks, shoes, equipment, etc. only contributed to a 2 second difference, horses like Spend a Buck and Gato Del Sol would've beaten Triple Crown winners Omaha and Gallant Fox. According to Walter Farely, tracks improved by 2 seconds through the mile, meaning Kentucky Derby times improved by 2 1/4 seconds based on tracks alone.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat , ManOWar, and Citation bring the best and worst out of us. All the poles of so called experts are built on speculation, opinion, and fixed memories of particular performances that left impressions on observers. State culture plays a role as well, for instance, the adulation of ManOWar in Kentucky in distinction to that of Secretariat in New York. Contrast this to the following of Citation in California. Kentucky Horse Park (KHP)is a monument to ManOWar just as Belmont Park is the same to Secretariat. In a similar way the Blood-Horse publication out of Kentucky competes with the New York's Daily Racing Form (DRF) for communities. All are influenced by the cultures from which they arise. The old timers referenced in one list could easily be countered by a list of old timers in another. Fixed allegiances are difficult to break. For every Sylvester Veitch is a Holly Hughs, both Hall-of-Fame trainers who 'saw them all', yet both with differing opinions as to what they saw. For every Ed Bowen, writer and editor for Blood-Horse, is a Joe Hirsch, the late writer and chief-editor for the DRF, both of high distinction yet with differing opinions when it came to 'the best'. For every Phil Georgeff or Tommy Trotter, etc, can be found an Allen Jerkins, Hall-of-Fame (HOF) trainer, or an Eddie Arcaro, HOF jockey, who both had experiences and judgments countervailing the former. Add Charles Hatton (who 'saw them all'), Andy Beyer, handicapper and co-developer of the respected Beyer Figures, Steve Davidowitz, Teddy Cox, Mike Casale, and others to that list. And finally, the Blood-Horse panel of seven which found both Secretariat and ManOWar tied for first, both receiving 3 votes, but differing by one at place giving ManOWar the edge. Hardly a consensus.
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commentators who assert that ManOWar faced competition on par with the runners of 1973. This is not correct. Taking a quote from “A Century of Champions”, a work by Randall and Morris who in 1999 transformed data compiled by Timeform modeling into book form, this text said in regard to ManOWar: “A more rational appraisal, in light of the undoubted increase in competitiveness of Stateside racing since his day, must place 'the horse' (ManOWar) on a slightly lower pedestal, but there remains no doubt of his greatness”. This statement corroborates my work (www.truevine.net/~sec@truevine.net/Legends/) completed some years ago that found similar conclusions. In that work I found that the average finishing times of Kentucky Derby winners decreased by as much as 4 seconds between 1920 and 1973. Of those 4 seconds, 2 could be attributed to the horse alone, the remainder to all other factors, improved track surfaces, lighter equipment, training, etc.... The improved specimens can be traced not only to better nutrition but to influential blood lines imported into the states from Europe, lines which included but are not limited to the potent sires Bull Dog and Nasrullah (traceable to Nearco and Phalaris), and the highly influential broodmare sire Princiquillo. According to Randall and Morris American horses achieved parity with their European counterparts in the 1960s and forged ahead in the 70s in their golden age of racing.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Citation's OWN JOCKEY, Eddie Arcaro said Secretariat was the better horse so THAT abrutly ends any discussion regarding Citation vs. Secretariat! In fcat, Arcaro stated Secretariat was the greatest race horse he ever saw...period! Rather convincing since he rode BOTH Citation and Kelso!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Actually, Sylvestor Veitch called Man o' War better. Read comments from articles on Secretariat in The DRF and you will find old time horsemen who called Man o' War better. True, not many were quoted at the time, but I can give you a list of MANY who called Citation better than Secretariat, including Phil Georgeff, Tommy Trotter, Elmer Polzin, Warren Brown, and Peter Winnants. And Man o' War was nearly universally acknowledged as the better horse by those who saw both him and Cy. I have personally asked Ed Bowen this question, and he said not many experts who saw both were searched out, but he was sure many felt that way. That arguement just doesn't hold up.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Nice try but VIRTUALLY EVERY great American racing anlyst who saw Man o' War and Secettariat race stated that Secretariat was, indeed, the greater horse INCLUDING the iconic Charles Hatton and Hollie Hughes. Alos, please don't mention Sir Barton as your defense beacuse he was "crawling" halfway to his grave when he raced against MOW. You can "spin it" all you want but Secretariat was the faster horse...case closed!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Don't even TRY to call Secretariat greater than Man o' War based on times. Tracks are 2 seconds faster today through the mile; even faster after that. MOW also ran on steel shoes, which were inferior to the aluminum shoes in Sec's day, and had to contend with the inferior nutrition of the day. Adjust MOW’s times 2-4 seconds (depending on distance) and most of them are better than Sec's. Plus, MOW did this carrying more weight (Let's see what Sec would do with 138 pounds: he never carried more than 124.) MOW set more records than Sec, by bigger margins than Sec, some of which stood longer than Sec's, despite the improvements in track conditions which have not significantly improved since Sec's time. Yes, Sec beat more older horses, including Riva Ridge. But MOW beat Sir Barton, who was better than all of them according to The Blood Horse. And he did this by seven lengths with a bowed tendon and a thrown shoe. This is according to Dorothy Ours' biography. MOW didn't race in the Kentucky Derby because Sam Riddle thought it was too long so early in the spring. If the Triple Crown had existed then, Riddle would have let MOW run, as he let his son, War Admiral. (The Triple Crown was not acknowledged until after MOW) Experts from The Blood Horse and The Associated Press call MOW the greatest. And let's remember that MOW was never fully extended, never asked to give his best, and usually held back. The only race MOW lost was because he was in wrong direction at the start and then blocked. In his only challenging race against John P. Grier, MOW broke from a muddy spot in the track and almost fell but still won. This is also from Dorothy Ours' book. MOW proved himself dominant under inferior conditions, heavier weights, while never being extended. We can only imagine what he could have achieved in Sec's day.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
great horse...suspect owner...but he was a product of his times...one reason its near impossible to compare horses from different decades....also..ones that run on different surfaces...conformation, training, health, jockey issues..and so much more need to be considered....
Added 2 years ago by lyoness6, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Both "Big Red's" are absolutely SPECTACULAR horses and we will never know for sure who was better. Judging race horses in different era's is an extremely difficult task, and most likely virtually impossible. However, I will say that similar to the previous post, the ONLY possible way to seriously judge horses from different eras are their racing times. While track conditions, handicaps, training methods, etc. also cloud this approach, what better possible methodology can we utilize? Won/Loss records appear to be rendered irrelevant because of the various levels of distorted competition so what baramoter can we really use to stake our claims other than official times. Human racing records (Olympics and otherwise) are the basis for rating the fastest runners ever, and since horses are likewise racing against each other, this may be the only true benchmark for this seemingly monumental conundrum. Personally, saying which horse is the greatest ever may be a futile effort. While I still strongly feel Sec is the top all-time horse, my 5 greatest "FLAT RACING" horses ever (not to insult Arkle and Red Rum enthusiasts) include Secretariat, Sea Bird II, Shegar, Man o' War and Spectacular Bid AND YOU CAN MOST LIKELY PLACE THEM IN ANY ORDER!!! Best wishes to all!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If theres one horse to touch Secretariat,its this one despite times.He had a nervous trainer and ran in a different era.Put him in the 1970's and it would have been close,very close.Both amazing horses.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Guess what here are the records of times. You do the math for yourselves . . . Man o war Secretariat 6 furlongs 1:11 1/5 1:09 4/5 1 mile 1:35 4/5 1:33 2/5 1 1/8 1:49 1/5 1:45 2/5 1 1/4 2:01 4/5 1:59 2/5 1 1/2 2:28 4/5 2:24 Now you tell me? Who was faster . . Exactly . . . Secretariat.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Man O'War greatest American racehorse of the 20th century by a mile. All Secretariat would have seen of him was his rear end disappearing in the distance.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I would put Man o' War at #3, behind Citation. As great as this stallion was, you have to win the Triple Crown to solidify your credentials. I do not believe the story that his owner kept him out of the Kentucky Derby because it was too long to run that early in the season for that young of a horse. As a 2-yr old, his owner ran him in the much longer Belmont in early June. I think he was probably under the weather prior to the Kentucky Derby that year, and his owner kept him out because he would not accept anything but a win. If Secretariat had the same owner, he wouldn't have run in the four races where he was sick and his record would've been 16/17. But Man o' War was as physically imposing and gifted as Secretariat, set 3 world records, and probably had a 20+ lb. heart. Great, great horse.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I guess you know more about racing than Charles Hatton and Eddie Arcaro who both INSISTED "Sec" was the greatest ever. As a side note, Hatton SAW Man 0' War race and Acaro RODE Ciiation...makes you wonder how impressive "Sec" really was if he could sway those two immortal racing psople his way? Hey, like I previously stated, the ttle of "greatest ever" is ridicuously subjective and horses such as Man o' War, Citation, Kelso, Sea Bird, Secretariat, Phar Lap, Spectacular Bid (please don't forget that wonder horse), Ribot, etc. could all stake claims as the greatest.....but you have to admit....it is sure a lot of fun debating it...no hard feelings!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Man O' War would have whupped Secretariat's ass running backwards.
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, -10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
when he was three, he was handicapped with as much as 138 pounds in races, giving away as much as 32 pounds to other horses, few horses ever carried that much at any age as he did at that age. Has set record in the 1920's that still stand today. Remarkable horse
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The original great...won 20 of 21 races and the race he lost was by a single head and was rumored to be due to a starter (no starting gates at the time) error and he was extremely late off the line as a result....would have been the first triple crown winner easily had his owner not kept him out of the derby...sired many legendary horses including war admiral a triple crown winner
Added 3 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Another of the all-time greats and rightly deserves his place in this list of equine champions
Added 4 years ago by jaxartes, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

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Sea Bird II Report Abuse
Sea Bird II was the greatest European racehorse of the 20th century and quite probably the greatest thoroughbred ever to have graced the turf anywhere in the world. I have been involved in horseracing for 53 years and I've only seen two other horses who can be compared to Sea Bird II : Ribot the unbeaten Italian champion and the American wonder horse Secretariat. But for me Sea Bird II was the best of them all.
974 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 77 comments
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Top class horse. Nothing to touch him in Europe or America
Added 4 months ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sea Bird was a real superstar of a racehorse. Easily the best I have ever seen.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Incredible racehorse. Sea Bird and Arkle were two of a kind.
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" It's Sea Bird on the wing, a great champion." Those were the words of BBC commentator Peter O'Sullevan in describing Sea Bird's win in he 1965 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. Every time I review the race I still get a shiver up and down my spine. There is absolutely no doubt about it in my mind, Sea Bird was one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
i have seen this horse winning his races on youtube and he was very impressive although all the footage was in black and white. i don't know if he was better than secretariat but they raced in different eras so it is very difficult to know.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Look no further on this list of the world's top thoroughbreds, you've found the greatest: SEA BIRD II.
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Apart from an ill- judged defeat as a 2 year-old, when he was ridden by a jockey who didn't know the horse and who gave Sea Bird far too much ground to make up, he never put a foot wrong in his second season carrying all before him in winning the major European races. There has never been an easier winner of the Epsom Derby and Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. Sea Bird can rightly be regarded as one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Whilst it is impoossibnle to compare hiorses from diffrent era's Sea Birds vicorioes where he left great horses trailing in his wake are something to behold. Secretariat ran in far simpler, less demanding and poorer quality races.
Added 1 year ago by Bill Lambert, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Until Royal Ascot in 2012, no horse has bettered the Timeform rating of 145 achieved by Sea-Bird II, the winner of the Derby and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in 1965. The French-trained colt coasted to victory in both races with an easy, almost effortless stride and even the great Dancing Brave, who won one of the strongest Arcs in history in 1986, could not quite equal his mark. Now, though, Sea-Bird II is the second best horse in Timeform history, with Frankel rated not just one but two pounds better on 147.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I don't know who was the best Sea Bird or Secretariat but I do know that I have never seen an easier winner of the Epsom Derby and Arc. Sea Bird's wins in those races were just mindblowing.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Those of us who saw Sea Bird in action in 1965 KNOW that he has no equal in Europe, America or anywhere else in the world.
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I have seen all the best racehorses in action and I have to say that for me, none of them compare to Sea Bird. He was truly exceptional, and for me, personally, he had no equal.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sea Bird was the greatest racehorse there ever was.
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Sea Bird and Frankel deserve to be rated top of the list of the greatest horses ever to race. I'm not saying that Big Red and all the other horses talked about here are not great horses in their own right, but I believe that Sea Bird and Frankel are truly exceptional racehorses.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
No argument Sea Bird was top of the tree. Nothing to touch him on this list.
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For me, personally, Sea Bird II was the greatest racehorse of all time, I've never seen another horse to match him that's for sure. Secretariat was a good horse, but second best to Sea Bird is all he will ever be.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great horse but not quite in same league as SEC or MOW.The evidence is out there,you just have to look for it.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I still get goosebumps every time I watch Sea Bird on YouTube. It's difficult to accept the fact that it has been 47 years since this titan of the turf swept all before in that never- to- be- forgotten summer and autumn of 1965. Many of those horses that finished behind Sea Bird in the races he won went on to win top races themselves, which simply emphasised the brilliance and superiority of this truly amazing racehorse. There is no doubt about it in my mind, Sea Bird was the greatest racehorse of all time.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
One in 10 million. Sea Bird was simply in a class apart, there will never be another like him.
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TOP CLASS RACEHORSE WHO HAS NO EQUAL.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sea Bird II was a truly incredible racehorse,certainly without any doubt the best I have ever seen race in the past 50 years. That is not to say that there haven't been other top class horses, from all over the world, who have left their indelible mark on the horseracing scene in the last half century. Having said all that none ,in my opinion, have come up to the standard set by that French colt way back in 1965. There will never be another racehorse who will set the horseracing world alight quite like the inimitable Sea Bird,well not in my lifetime anyway.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
To answer the query :"Why is he named Sea Bird II". Well the answer is quite simple. There was a horse previously named Sea Bird, but not in the same class as Sea Bird II.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I've always wondered why people who love horse racing and love horses disparage them so easily. To the comment about Secretariat being "doped up, pumped up, etc." Secretariat was not. He was an exceptionally healthy horse with few problems. Today, that is not the case and the American horse racing industry depends much to much on unregulated administration of various medications. It is said to see horses so lightly raced, bloodlines so crossed, and so many horses who suffer serious injury which exceeds the rate of occurrence in the past in the US or in any other country. The industry is destroying our horse racing. Read an article in the New York Times (I believe in the last month or so) about the shame of the horse racing industry).
Added 2 years ago by guest, 10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
It is really a wasted exercise to compare horses of different eras - there are too many factors; so the point of the Epsom Derby--rising 134 feet is valid. So is it mistaken to compare Hawksters record on 1.5 miles at Santa Anita on turf to Secretariat's 1.5 record on dirt. The turf @ Santa Anita has a downhill section which contributes to faster times. You really have to know what you are comparing.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I see one contributor would not have Sea-Bird in his top 50 saying 19th century US horses beat Sea-Bird's Epsom Derby time over 1 1/2 miles. Does he know that the Epsom Derby course rises 134 feet in the first half of the race? Comparing times on a flat regular US oval to Epsom is like comparing chalk (Epsom geddit) to cheese). Hawkster ran 2 22 4/5 over 1 1/2 miles at Santa Anita. Secretariat ran 2 24 at Belmont. You can compare times to times but you can not draw a conclusion. Well you can, but it an uninformed conclusion.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
why is he named sea bird II?
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It is impossible to argue with the logic of the last contributor, he is absolutely correct. Sea Bird was a truly sensational racehorse, but then so were many of those other horses mentioned in this list. Speaking for myself, I feel privileged to have witnessed the exploits of Sea Bird, who is certainly the greatest racehorse that I ever saw race.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There is no point arguing. The only way to prove who is best is to race them all together under the same conditions. Never gonna happen, Never gonna find an answer to this argument. Sorted
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Absolutely agree with that. Sea Bird won all his races without any artificial aids. He was easily the greatest race horse there has ever been.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
No,I'm talking about a truly great racehorse called Sea Bird II, not that hyped up ,pumped up, doped up US animal. If Secretariat had been born in Europe I doubt if he would ever have seen a racecourse. They don't allow horses to race in Europe when they are pumped full of performance-enhancing drugs.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Interesting statement because a better race horse named Secretariat ran at Belmont Park, Churchill Downs, Pimlico, Woodbine Canada and Aqueduct and last I checked these race tracks exist on planet Earth!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 8 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
If there was ever a better racehorse than Sea Bird then he never ran on a racecourse on this planet.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sea Bird II was truly a racehorse made in heaven, an equine superstar. Even though Sea Bird was such a highly- strung racehorse, he was still far and away the greatest racehorse that ever saw a racetrack. Due to his highly-strung nature he wasn't an easy horse to keep in training, and the fact that his trainer, Etienne Pollet, was able to produce him fit to race was testament to the genius of this Frenchman. I am absolutely convinced that Sea Bird was easily the greatest racehorse of all time, and nothing and no-one will ever convince me otherwise.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Top class racehorse, probably the greatest thoroughbred ever seen on a racetrack anywhere in the world. Never be another like him , he was unique.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The greatest racehorse ever. No argument.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
A ranking of the greatest race horses in history is obviously based on quality not quantity. Sea Bird may have raced only 8 times and was beaten once, but if you look at the quality of his wins in the The Derby Stakes and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe there is no doubting his claim to being the greatest race horse ever. We laymen can bicker endlessly about this, but read the book A Century of Champions by Tony Morris and John Randall. This book is the best attempt at ranking the best race horses in the 20th Century in the world. Written by two experts their opinions carry far more weight than ours. You will not agree with the placings of certain horses relative to others, but you cannot dispute their reasoning.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
THE BEST OF THE BEST AS FAR AS I AM CONCENED.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sea Bird was the only racehorse to send shivers up and down my spine every time I saw him race. Johnny Tillotson had Sea Bird in mind when he sang "Poetry In Motion"
Added 2 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There has never been a horse to compare with Sea Bird II and there never will be.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Seen all the great racehorses in my long life,I'm 77, and there have been some fantastic memories amongst them. If I had to single out ONE special memory then it would have to be the incomparable Sea Bird winning the 1965 Arc. To me, personally , nothing can compare with that performance, it was simply mindblowing. He was the greatest racehorse I have ever seen,that's for sure.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
For me, personally, there is absolutely no doubt that Sea Bird II was the best racehorse of all time. Each of his wins as a three year- old was achieved with such incredible ease that you got the distinct impression that he was only performing at half speed. I am convinced beyond any doubt that if Pat Glennon had asked him a serious question in any of his races then we would have witnessed something really special.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I have never witnessed a better racehorse than Sea Bird, and I have been involved in horse racing for better than 50 years. With each year that passes I hope to see another champion to compare with the great Sea Bird but I guess I should resign myself to the fact that Sea Bird was unique and that there will never be another one like him.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I can remember Sea Bird winning the Epsom Derby and the Prix de l'arc de Triomphe in 1965 as if it was yesterday. You never forget an experience like the two wins Sea Bird achieved in those prestigious races,which is now fast approaching almost 50 years ago. The thing I remember most about Sea Bird's victories was just how effortless and majestic they were. He had such a silky smooth action,it was a delight to watch him race. I have been privileged during my life to have seen two of the greatest racehorses of all time ,Sea Bird II and Arkle and I consider myself extremely fortunate indeed to have been around at the time they raced.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
it not easy judgeing who is the greatest horse of all time. many people have different opinions we can not all agree. for me it is big red and then phar lap and maybe man o war in third position but that is just one persons opinions. no one can agree all the time. some good horses race over in europe but i do not know much about them only when they come to america for the bc races.
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By the same token I think Secretariat was brilliant but Sea Bird II was better.
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Seabird was very good but cant be compared to Secretariat.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Whilst I am Sea Bird's number one fan, he really was the best racehorse that I have ever seen in action, I must agree that Secretariat was a truly fantastic racehorse. His record alone stands up to the closest inspection and the times he posted in his Triple Crown victories in 1973 still stand today,38 years later. Love him or hate him, any fair minded racing fan must admit that Secretariat is one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
In my opinion the following European horses stand ahead of the rest - Ribot, Sea Bird II, Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Brigadier Gerard, Shergar, and Dancing Brave. They all won either the King George or the Arc (being the top two WFA races in Europe) in authorative performances with Ribot, Mill Reef, and Dancing Brace winning both. Sea Bird II's win in the Arc of 1965 was the most impressive in this race beating a top class field, which obviously had a major impact on him being award Timeform's top rating. While it is extremely difficult to say, which one horse is the greatest I would rate Brigadier Gerard the most complete horse of this elite group. He won 9 WFA races over 2 seasons ranging in distance from 1600m to 2400m.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Bigred, while Secretariat's Belmost was amazing maybe you should check out Deep Impact's effort in the 3200m Tenno Sho in 2006 running 3:13.4. Equally as impressive.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sea Bird II was indeed a spectacular race horse, but you might want to take 2 minutes and 24 seconds out of your schedule in the near future and watch a tape of Secretariat's Belmont Stakes run if you are truely attempting to witness perfection. What Secretrait accomplished on that historic day was to stretch the physical limits of what an equine champion should be able to accomplish. Simply stated his performance was supernatural which is why only a single horse has been able to get within 5 lengths of his time after 140+ years of racing. This is no knock whatsoever on Sea Bird II or any other world-wide horse. My sole point is that Sec's Belmont run could NEVER be matched by any horse, anywhere, anytime!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
How can you improve on perfection? And for me,personally, Sea Bird II was the epitome of equine excellence. I can only give a totally biased opinion of this spectacular racehorse, which is to say that I have never seen a better thoroughbred in action than this horseracing superstar.
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1965 was a great year because not only was Sea Bird II the best flat horse in the world,but Arkle was also proving that he was the greatest steeplechaser there has ever been. We will never again see two horses who were so superior to every other racing at the same time.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Best racehorse I ever saw. All the superlatives in the English dictionary wouldn't do justice to this brilliant horse's ability. He was unique, and there will never be another like him,certainly not in my lifetime anyway.
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I have to say that Sea Bird was,without a doubt, the finest racehorse I ever saw run. All his wins were achieved with the minimum of effort and he never seemed to be out of a canter. Apparently he was a very difficult horse to train as he was such a nervous type. His jockey Pat Glennon who was Australian , was on record as saying that he never got to the bottom of Sea Bird's ability as he never had to ask him a serious question in any of his races.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
They broke the mould when this horse was born,he was the pre-eminent European racehorse of the twentieth century and along with the great Italian champion stands head and shoulders above all the rest. I'm not familiar with the American horseracing scene so it would be pointless of me to make any comments about any of the racehorses from that country, although I'm sure there have been some great thoroughbreds from that country too, particularly Secretariat and Man O'War.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Anyone who witnessed Sea Bird's rout of the Derby and Arc fields in 1965 would be in no doubt of this horses's claims to be one of the greatest racehorses of all time. I know that I have never seen a better performance by a racehorse anywhere in the world, and probably never will again.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I cannot write about the great horses like some of you guys but I thinke I know a good horse one I see one. Arkle was great so was Mill Reef and Nijinski and Shergar. I also think that Sec Man O'War and Spectacular Bid are fantastic horses. Sea Bird was awesome so was Ribot They are all brilliant and I have seen them all on Youtube.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Just watched this horse on YouTube winning the English Derby and the big European race they call the Arc. No escaping the fact that Sea Bird was a great horse after what he did to the opposition in those two races way back when. I'm no too sure if he would have beaten Secretariat though. I don't know much about record breaking race times on European tracks,but as far as I know Sea Bird didn't break any track records whereas Big Red did and still holds some of them nearly 40 years on.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Pour Moi has just won the Epsom Derby and is the first French horse to have done so since Empery in1976. But without a doubt the best French horse ever was Sea Bird II who won the Epsom Derby in 1965. It is always difficult to compare great horses and probably unfair. This website contains the names of many truly great racehorses from all over the world and most of them deserve to be included here. I can only speak for myself, but I have to say that the best that I have ever seen was Sea Bird II. I don't think that I shall ever see a racehorse as brilliant as him again.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I was lucky enough to see him win the Derby in 1965. Wow, I could not beleieve how easily he sprinted past Sunacelli and Niksar in the straight and he made it look so effortless. I saw him win the Arc on television and he was never off the bridle to beat the previously unbeaten French Derby winner Reliance II and a star-studded field that included five Derby winners and is generally regarded as the best field ever assembled for the Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. Sea Bird II was a very special racehorse.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
A silky smooth action and a truly scintillating turn of foot that took him past horses as if they were standing still. Someone once said that watching Sea Bird in action was just like a red hot knife going through butter.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
As far as I am concerned Sea Bird was by far the greatest racehorse I have ever seen. Won the Derby and Arc with imperious authority over a truly world class field. Never be another racehorse like him.
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There can be little doubt that Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave ,Nijinsky and Vaguely Noble were the best racehorses to appear on European racetracks in the Twentieth Century.
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Without a doubt one of the supreme thoroughbreds of all time despite the fact that he was a bundle of nerves whenever he raced. For such a highly-strung animal to perform with such brilliance is a true testament to the calibre of Sea Bird's undoubted greatness.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Please STOP using the "tough" Epsom 1-1/2 mile course vs. an oval dirt track as your selling point for Sea Bird II vs. Secretariat...it is an embarassing stance. Are you seriously telling me that a tougher turf course would make up 13.5 seconds or 67.5 lengths when comparing Sea Bird's Epsom to Sec's Belmont!!! Secondly, I am NOT disputing Epsom as a tougher course but the tougher course is somewhat offset by the fact that it IS turf which ADDS time to a race horse's fractions. Substantiating that fact is EVERY World Record distance has indeed been performed on turf! If Sea Bird had raced against Secretariat at Belmont on June 9, 1973, there is NO POSSIBLE way he would have kept up with "Big Red" and would have been demoished like the rest of the field. That is simply FACT...and EVERYONE of you Europeon enthusiasts have to realize it is NOT JUST an OPINION!!!! NO horse EVER has come within 5 lengths of Sec's 2:24 time and don't hold your breath for that to happen in the near future. Sea Bird was great...absolutely no doubt about it but please stop comparing him to Secretariat,...it borders on insanity!!!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion about the ability of Secretariat to handle Epsom and other courses,but there is absolutely NO DOUBT that some European courses are tougher to handle than US courses, that cannot be disputed. Obviously a twisting, turning ,rollercoaster course like Epsom is tougher to negotiate than a flat course, as all US courses are to my knowledge. Chester, the oldest racecourse in the world, is a flat course, but is extremely tight, and calls for the more nippy type of animal. No, I cannot accept your assertion that some,not all,European racetracks are not a tougher test than US tracks. How on earth can you state categorically that Secretariat would have had no problem coping with a track such as Epsom , when you have no way of proving it?
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great horse and justifiably in top 5 of all tme but at the end of the day his times in derby and arc werent all that spectacular(a good ten + secs off am I right?).And I dont agree that Euro courses are a tougher test.Secretariat would have run up and down those sloping hills of epsom without any problem.His heart was 22lbs.He was the most powerful and fastest horse of all time.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The Race course in prix de L'arc de Thriomphe is just a lot more difficult the the American surface! The races in europe are so much prestigious and off course Secreteriat was a great horse, but he could never reach the greatness of Sea bird II !!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Seriously, how can you compare times returned on flat oval artificial surfaces like those in the States with those on Europe's widely varied turf tracks? Epsom's Derby course, for instance, rises steadily, with a slight bend, to about halfway then turns left and swoops steeply downhill before turning left again into the heavily cambered straight. Then, when the runners are tired, they are asked to climb the last half-furlong. I'm not saying that makes Epsom a great racecourse. On the contrary. But that's how it is.
Added 3 years ago by Lochroe, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
No doubt about it,the greatest racehorse of all time. Would make all those American horses look like seaside donkeys!
Added 3 years ago by guest, -7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I have read on more than a couple discussion boards that Sea Bird II is the best thoroughbred of the 20th century. And this board rates him as #2. Are you kidding me? Where did this idea come from? Sea Bird II only ran 8 races, and the two races his fans cite to establish his "greatness" are the 1965 Prix de l'arc De Triomphe (won in 2:35.5) and 1965 Epsom Derby (won in 2:38.5). Both races are the same length that the Kentucky Derby was run prior to 1896. Let's for a moment not even talk about Sea Bird II's North American peers, but compare him to the Kentucky Derby champions from 1875-1895. Aristides in 1875 actually beat Sea Bird II's time for 1-1/2 miles in the Epsom Derby!!!! 10 other American horses over that period also bested Sea Bird II's time in the Epsom!!!! Now let's talk about Sea Bird's peers. Secretariat raced only 8 years after Sea Bird retired and set a world record of 2:24 for 1 1/2 miles. When you look at the list of world records for thoroughbreds at all the various distances, several are still on the books from the late 1950's through the 1960's, and the best decade was actually the 1980's. So Sea Bird II was arguably racing during the 20 years that represented the pinnacle of thoroughbred racing. Sea Bird II's 2:35 in the Prix de l'arc De Triomphe was said to be against a stellar field of champions - an "awesome", "overwhelming" victory. Well, if Secretariat had been racing that day and was anywhere close to the form he displayed at the Belmont in 1973, he would have beaten Sea Bird II by over 50 lengths!!!! The 31 length victory over Sham in the Belmont would have looked like a warm-up compared to how he would have annihilated this European "champion". So please, folks, let's face the facts and compare horses that really deserve comparison. Sea Bird II would not even make the top 50 horses in my list.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Obviously the best European horse. Secretariart was the best in America. These horses shouldn't be compared. I know who I like best, and Sea Bird fans know who they love
Added 3 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Secretariat is the greatest American racehorse, and Sea Bird ii is the greatest European racehose.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The best there's ever been. End of argument.
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I'm lucky (and old) enough to have seen Secretariat and Sea Bird race in the flesh. I loved watching Secretariat and was thrilled by him. But US racing is a rather sterile affair. The same anti-clockwise time trial day after day. Then I think of Sea Bird. I honestly believe this horse never broke sweat. Was he ever off the bit? Was he ever out of a canter?? We only ever saw the tip of the iceberg with Sea bird, but that was all he needed. Sea Bird was perfection.
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Sea Bird II never raced against the best in the wolrd. Never set records like Secretariat. He would never come close to any of Big Red feats especially the triple crown ones.
Added 4 years ago by rscarbro48, 7 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I totally agree with the assessment of this brilliant racehorse. Sea Bird is generally regarded as the 'Champion of Champions' by many racing experts and I, for one, wouldn't argue with that.
Added 4 years ago by jaxartes, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

4.

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Ribot Report Abuse
This Italian horse raced in Europe in the 1950's and remained unbeaten in 16 races. He raced as a 2-year old, 3-year old and as a 4-year old and nothing could ever get near him. Ribot won two Prix de l'arc de Triomphe's in Paris and came over to Britain to win the prestigious King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes. He was effective on any surface and was as tough as teak. Ribot can most definitely be classed as one of the greatest racehorses of the 20th century.
913 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 17 comments
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He had versatility over distance, and in all conditions that few great horses had
Added 5 months ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Unquestionably one of the greatest racehorses who ever lived. Whether or not he was the best is a matter of opinion. How would he have coped with the likes of Secretariat, Sea Bird II, Man O' War, Citation ? I never saw Ribot race, but I have no doubt that he was a truly brilliant racehorse.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Probably the only racehorse capable of giving Sea Bird a race. Ribot was, without doubt, a truly sensational thoroughbred who possessed such brilliance that there wasn't a horse who could get anywhere near him for the three seasons he stayed in training. Unquestionably one of the all -time greats.
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Fabulous racehorse who has few if any peers. His unblemished 16 race unbeaten record speaks for itself.
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I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Ribot would have beaten most ,if not all , of the horses on this list, he really was that good. People fail to realise how difficult it is to remain unbeaten over 3 seasons. Only the truly great horses are able to accomplish this feat, and Ribot was most definitely one of the true greats of thoroughbred racing.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
A fabulous racehorse with a perfect record which very few other racehorses can lay claim to. Would definitely be in the top 5 of any list of all time greats.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Awesome 10 and hard to dispute...let's make it top 12 because Spectacular Bid and Sea the Stars should also be part of any "greatest horse" list.
Added 2 years ago by bigred, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The 10 greatest racehorses of all time, in no particular order? Secretariat Sea Bird II Man O' War Ribot Eclipse Phar Lap Citation Brigadier Gerard Native Dancer Ruffian Well that would be my idea of the 10 greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
You cannot knock an unbeaten record of 16 wins stretching over three seasons. None of the top 20 horses on this list can match that. Lammtarra was unbeaten but only ran four times. Ribot was a truly great racehorse, there can be no doubt about that. Definitely in the top 5 of all time. Eclipse must also be considered as one of the greatest horses ever.
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Ribot's achilles, as most point out, was the "mid twins". 'nough said.
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Well said!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
It is impossible to find fault with this great horses's unbeaten record of 16 wins. The reason that Ribot has not received the credit he so rightly deserves is due to the fact that he raced in an era when televised racing did not have the global impact that it has today. If Ribot was racing today he would have achieved the status of an equine superstar.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Ribot was a barrel- chested racehorse and they just didn't come any tougher than this fella. Nothing fazed him and he won on all types of going, the mark of a great racehorse. Definitely in the top three greatest European racehorses of the Twentieth Century.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
What a ridiculous comment by charwoody. There can be no doubt whatsoever that Ribot was a truly great racehorse,his unbeaten record is testament to this.
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Absolutley Great horse but not the greatest.
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I respect your opinion, charwoody, but Ribot was a truly great horse. You cannot remaine unbeaten in 16 race over 4 seasons on all types of surface and not be a great horse. His wins in England and France adds testament to this assertion.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
As good as Ribot was there are many thoroughbreds who,IMO, were far superior to him. The quality of opposition that Ribot defeated was substandard and I believe he has been vastly overrated.
Added 4 years ago by charwoody, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

5.

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Kelso Report Abuse
1960-1964 Horse of the Year, five time Jockey Club Gold Cup winner for 2 miles against the best horses in the world. Still holds record for 2 miles and also holds record for 1 1/2 miles on turf at 2:23 4/5 faster than Secretariat's Belmont, carried over 130 lbs 24 times. Handicap Triple Crown winner. Won 39 of 63, placing in the money 54 times. Ranked best horse of any age by Eddie Arcaro who rode two Triple Crown winners, Citation and Whirlaway. Not to take away from other greats, Secretariat, Man O War or Citation, Kelso proved himself for six years against the 60,000 throroughbreds in the world by becoming the highest money winner. No other horse in history duplicates Kelso's record.
882 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 7 comments
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I am British and I remember watching Kelso winning the Washington D.C, International in 1964. He was a magnificent racehorse.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 14 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
C Hanford's training philosophy of racing Kelso at 6 and 7 furlongs in May and June just to get him both mentally and physically fit (against top sprinters) is not understood today. And while it compromises his win percentage, it also gave longevity to a most intelligent racehorse (gelding).
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Oh dear! Kelso #18! Black Caviar, who up to this time of writing (6/22/12) has beaten mostly unknowns in the racing backwater of Australia, is #10 and Kelso, KELSO!, is #18. This is beyond wrong.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 44 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
#24 you must be joking! Kelso should be in the top 10. How many horses have won 39 races!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 23 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
does not belong down here...top 5 all time easily...won consistantly for years and years...
Added 2 years ago by lyoness6, 13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Arcaro said Citation was best rode & seen as a 3 year old. Kelso best rode & seen as a 4 yr. old in 1966 & also said Kelso could beat Citation easily. Said in 1996 rated Secretariat best he ever seen.
Added 4 years ago by rscarbro48, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Tuirf courses are faster than dirt. Hawkster has the record on turf in 2:22 4/5. Again, Arcaro said Secretariat was best he ever seen & Citation & Kelso best ever rode! With all due respect the facts are not right here.
Added 4 years ago by rscarbro48, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

6.

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Citation Report Abuse
1948 Triple Crown Champion. Rated "best three year old ever" by Eddie Arcaro. Won 27 of 29 at three and could have won the other two but was held back. Defeated the two horses he lost to above in later races. Won 16 in a row. Could run on any kind of track. Ranked "a pound better than Secretariat" by Richard Stone Reeves the famous equine painter who knew all the horses.
873 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 7 comments
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His jockey rode whirlaway and citation, he said citation was better
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Acaro actually stated that Kelso was the best he ever rode. "I believe Kelso was the best horse I ever rode," Arcaro said. "He was Horse of the Year five straight years (1960-64), and that takes a lot of doing. And he hooked everybody, every place, on every kind of racetrack. He just was the best horse. Sprint, go a distance, run all day, He could do it all."
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Interesting comment considering his OWN JOCKEY, Eddie Arcaro, stated Secretariat was, unquestionably, the greatest horse he EVER saw including his two great horses Citation and Kelso!
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Second best American racehorse of the 20th century behind Man O' War. That horse in third place 2furlongs behind is poor, tired, Big Red.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I would put Citation #2 on this list. Won 19 of 20 races as a 3 yr. old, all against top competition. Won Kentucky Derby by 3-1/2 lengths, Preakness by 5-1/2, and tied the stakes record in the Belmont. Set world records as 4-5 year old.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Probably should be top 5 and easily placed over Zenyatta.
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Arcaro said Citation & Kelso was the best he ever rode & Secretariat best he ever seen & fastest.
Added 4 years ago by rscarbro48, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

7.

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Nijinsky Report Abuse
858 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 7 comments
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Re Nijinsky and Carbine: this list is not about stud records. As its title states explicitly, it's about RACE records. Using a stallion's success at stud as a criterion in determining “The Best RACEhorses of All Times” is irrelevant - and unfair to mares and geldings. Nijinsky and Carbine were great RACEhorses and deserve consideration on this list based on their race records. Their subsequent success at stud doesn't change their race records one iota.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 19 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
There was one horse that had a better stud record, Research Carbine.
Added 2 years ago by guest, -21 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Piggott definitely to blame for Nijinsky's Arc defeat? Identical waiting tactics had been employed for success at Epsom and Ascot. And, of course, Nijinsky had suffered a serious attack of ringworm before he was nursed home in the St Leger, probably having a much harder race than Piggott's artistry made it look, because the colt lost more than two stone after the race. So if anyone HAS to be blamed (and I don't think anyone should be) it should perhaps be O'Brien, who admitted after the Arc that he had not realised how much the ringworm had taken out of Nijinsky and that the race probably came too soon after the Leger.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The last horse to win the English Triple Crown in 1970. That feat will NEVER be achieved again because owners and trainers tend to shun the St Leger as a target now. In any case Nijinsky was a very special horse and should never have been defeated. His jockey Lester Piggot was definitely to blame for his defeat in the 1970 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe when he was just beaten by Sassafras. Why his connections then decided to run Nijinsky in the Champion Stakes shortly afterwards,where he was again beaten, this time by Lorenzaccio, is a complete mystery to me. Nijinsky had a very tough campaign as a 3-year old ,he was on the go from April until October, fully 6 months. Perhaps those involved with Nijinsky thought he was a machine and not flesh and blood.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Surle in the top 15 racehorses of all,close to the very top.
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In pure statistical analysis the horse of the century .Imagine winning the triple crown,Irish Derby and King George in one season-something unequaled till today.Nijinsky would surely have added the Arc to his booty but for facing an attack of ringworm..
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
ran over all distances, at stud he wassecond to none
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8.

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Seattle Slew Report Abuse
Seattle Slew was the 1977 Triple Crown winner and only triple crown winner that had been undefeated prior to winning the crown.
846 points - added 5 years ago by arollison - 9 comments
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The post second from the bottom here under the great Seattle Slew hails him as “The ONLY undefeated Triple Crown Winner in history.” The English Triple Crown (2,000 Guineas, Epsom Derby and St. Leger) was so named long before our Triple Crown in the U.S., and Ormonde (1886) and Bahram (1935) were not only undefeated when they won the English Triple Crown but, unlike Slew, they retired undefeated.
Added 7 months ago by guest, 9 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
ok guys your talking about big red, no offence but i wouldn't compare her to him, he was just already faster and more distance by just looking at the records
Added 1 year ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Genuine "great" horse. Deserves to be higher on this list.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
please remember his girl...landaluce....she (just like ruffian) gave her life on the track...and she was undefeated at the time
Added 2 years ago by lyoness6, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Truely a grat horse and worthy of an even higher spot on this list. Regarding the comparison to Secretariat, Slew falls somehat short because his times for almost every fraction simply couldn't match up to "Big Red" who was the faster horse.
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Why is he way down here?! I think he might be better than secretariat by there could be no proving unless they raced against each other and they didn't so definatally one of the best
Added 3 years ago by guest, -2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
agreed, he was a better horse than secretariat
Added 3 years ago by guest, -4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
In my opinion the Greatest. The ONLY undefeated Triple Crown Winner in history. And as for breeding how about A.P. Indy and Cigar to mention just a few.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
was one of two horses to possibly challenge Secretariat the other being Dr. Fager
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9.

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Forego Report Abuse
One of the best racehorses of all times, Forego was voted the Eclipse Award for Horse of the Year for three years straight: 1974, 1975 and 1976. His total lifetime earnings topped $1,900,000.
818 points - added 5 years ago by arollison - 11 comments
Comments:
A genuine "great" horse. Deserves to be much higher on this list.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I rank Forego as the third greatest horse (American horses only) after Secretariat and Citation.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
WEIGHT is the only factor that remains unchanged in horseracing over the generations. And only the mighty FOREGO could carry the ridiculous numbers to victory so often. He was the greatest
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Great points regarding Forego's legacy. However, I do believe you do have to also throw Kelso and Man o' War into the American mix. I think it is so sad that Secretariat didn't have a chance to race as a 4 year-old. If you think SEC's 3-year old campaign was unparalleled, his 4-year old campaign would have been absolutely frightening NO MATTER HOW MUCH EXTRA WEIGHT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN SADDLED WITH!
Added 2 years ago by bigred, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Among American race horses I think Forego deserves to be ranked only behind Secretariat, Citation, and Spectacular Bid. Forego's 1976 campaign is among the greatest ever: he fell a nose short of winning the Handicap Triple Crown and then later won the Woodward Stakes and the Marlboro Cup. Had he not suffered an inflamed ankle he would have won the Jockey Club Gold Cup as the overwhelming favourite. Had he achieved there would be no doubt that he belongs as the 4th greatest American thoroughbred of all time.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Forego won races from sprints to marathons, while carrying a mountain on his back. No modern horse has carried anything like what Forego routinely carried. He wond the 1976 Marlboro Cup carrying 137lbs and the 1975 Suburban (a mile and half race) carrying 134. Let's see some of the more recent superstars do that.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Forego was an awesome horse. It certainly would have been awesome to watch Forego race against Secretariat as 4 and 5 year olds. What many people don't realize is that the comparison to a 3 and 4 year old colt, from an anotomical perspective, is synonymous to a 15 and 21 year old male with the 4 year old much bigger, stronger, and faster. Scary to think that we were all deprived of watching Secretariat as a 4 year old and the unbreakable earth shattering record times he might have continued to set!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Defeated champion sprinters JO Tobin and Dr. Patches, both of whom beat Seattle Slew. Beat another 8 or so champion horses and numerous stakes winners over many years. Beat Honest Pleasure in the Marlboro in stupefying fashion. All this on bad legs, carrying Dr. Fager on his back... There may have been a few flat our faster horses on a given day, but no horse had the heart Forego had, and therefore no horse was as favored by people, and still is. I don't know what the "best" horse means, but we all know what the FAVORITE means and -- favored in like 95+% of his 57 races -- WHO it simply has to be!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Defeated champion sprinters JO Tobin and Dr. Patches, both of whom beat Seattle Slew. Beat another 8 or so champion horses and numerous stakes winners over many years. Beat Honest Pleasure in the Marlboro in stupefying fashion. All this on bad legs, carrying Dr. Fager on his back... There may have been a few flat our faster horses on a given day, but no horse had the heart Forego had, and therefore no horse was as favored by people, and still is I don't know what the "best" horse means, but we all know what the FAVORITE means and -- favored in like 95+% of his 57 races -- WHO it simply has to be!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Actually that was a quote from his trainer about entering him in the Preakness. He was later gelded and returned as Sprint Champion before starting on his Eclipse run. Just happened to mature a little later than Secretariat. It would have been interesting to have seen them run as 4 and 5 year olds.
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He was a great horse but when he lost to Secretariat in the Derby his owner swore he never race his horse ever again against him.
Added 4 years ago by rscarbro48, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

10.

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Dr. Fager Report Abuse
Raced 22 times, won18, two seconds, one third, one disqualification in the Jersey Derby. Elected to the Racing Hall of Fame three years after retirement. He gave you chills from the wind as he raced by.
786 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 12 comments
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Dr. Fager is the only horse to win four end-of-year championship titles in the same year. After his “annus mirabilis” in 1968 the Daily Racing Form poll awarded him: Horse of the Year, Champion Handicap Horse, Champion Sprinter and Champion Grass Horse.
Added 8 months ago by guest, 15 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Dr. Fager’s 1:32 1/5 world record for 8f (carrying 134 lbs) stood for 29 years. But his 1:20 1/5 Aqueduct track record for 7f (toting 139 lbs) stood for 31 years.
Added 9 months ago by guest, 10 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Re the mentions below of Dr. Fager's fastest mile (1:32.2) versus Frankel's fastest mile (1:37.3) – a 25½ length difference! – you left out another important fact that is even more flattering to Dr. Fager. He carried 134 lbs, and gave his nine rivals between 16 and 24 lbs, while Frankel carried only 126 lbs and met his opponents at equal weights.
Added 9 months ago by guest, 20 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Not mentioned here, but worth noting: in addition to his dazzling successes on dirt, Dr. Fager also won at the elite level on grass. He won the G1 United Nations Handicap in 1968 defeating, among others: Dual U.S. champion grass horse, dual Washington D.C. International Stakes winner and Daily Racing Form Horse of the Year, Fort Marcy; Kentucky Derby runner-up and third in the Belmont Stakes, Advocator; and Australian champion, dual Cox Plate winner and Caulfield Cup winner, Tobin Bronze.
Added 10 months ago by guest, 29 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Two more things in comparing Dr. Fager's and Frankel's fastest wins over 8f. (1) Frankel did his on a straight one-mile turf track officially rated good-to-firm. Dr. Fager did his on a one-turn dirt track. So Frankel ran 8f straight. Dr. Fager spent 2f negotiating a 180-degree turn. (2) Queally gave Frankel at least four welts with the whip and showed him the whip over most of the last 3f. Baeza never used the whip or even showed it to Dr. Fager. (Videos of both races on YouTube).
Added 1 year ago by guest, 40 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Dr. Fager's world record mile of 1:32 1/5 or, converting it to tenths of seconds, 1:32.2, was 5.1 seconds faster than Frankel's fastest mile of 1:37.3. That's a margin of 25.5 lengths!
Added 1 year ago by guest, 36 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
“Dr. Fager's 1968 world record of 1:32 1/5 at Arlington Park near Chicago, the most hallowed standard of time in American racing …” - Steven Crist, NY Times, 4/9/89.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 23 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Do you really think Dr. Fager would have posted a better time than Prove Outs 2:25.8 IN THE MUD? What are Dr. Fager's world-class 12 furlong times??? Answer: there are NONE! You surely know SEC was ill when he lost the Whitney & Wood (Abscess). At 1 mile the fastest ever...probably. Bewteen 10 & 12 furlongs Secretariat would have BURIED him!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 1 year ago by bigred, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Did you forget him and then just put him in here?Waaaay underrated. Maybe the fastest American horse ever. Move him up 50 or 60 spots.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Heads up Dr. Fager would win more than Secretariat. Too bad Secretariat didn't win the Wood--forgot to run his race. As he forgot to run his race in the Woodward--and as he forgot to run his race in the Whitney. Also remember, Dr. Fager is the world record holder at a mile. Guess he beats Secretariat 10 of 10 to the slower Secretariat!!!!! Dr. Fager carried larger imposts and ran fantastic times. Secretariat got weight from Onion and Prove Out, and didn't beat them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No way Dr. Fager loses to Angle Light, Onion, Prove Out, Twice 'a Prince, or Master Achiever even ONCE. Much less lose to them two years running. Furthermore, Secretariat's great competition: Twice A Prince, My Gallant, Our Native doesn't match up with some of the great's competition. Swaps would have ate Secretariat for lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 2 years ago by guest, -11 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Interesting statement since Secretariat set the 1-1/8 mile WORLD record in 1973 at the Marlboro Cup (1:45-2/5 seconds) and "galluped" to an unfathomable 1:57-4/5 seconds 1-1/4 mile that unofficially ties Spectacular Bid's still standing World Record. Bottom line is to say ANY horse at ANY distance would beat Secretariat 9 out of 10 times borders on insanity!!!!
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Would have beat Secretariat at any distance up to 1 1/8 miles--9 times out of 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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11.

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Affirmed Report Abuse
This amazing racehorse had 29 starts, 22 wins, 5 second place wins, and 1 third place win. He earned $2,393,818 during his career.
772 points - added 5 years ago by arollison - 3 comments
Comments:
Seattle Slew was four when he beat Affirmed. One of those times Affirmed's saddle slipped. Slew lost that race to Exceller. Affirmed was only a three year old and had run in the Triple Crown with no easy races facing Alydar each time. Then he also ran and won the Jim Dandy and next in the Travers which he lost to Affirmed due to disqualification. He had a very busy schedule before the confrontation with Seattle Slew. How was he then expected to be at his best? Ridiculous when you consider he also ran hard and often his two year old season (five times against Alydar) and six times in his three year old year BEFORE the Derby. His four year old season was better than Slew's. Slew did very well in the breeding shed but his best son, A.P. Indy, was also Secretariat's grandson. Affirmed did not do as well but still had many grass stars, including Flawlessly. Affirmed won his Triple Crown beating great horses like Alydar. Slew beat Run Dusty Run who was not in Alydar's league. Affirmed is underrated IMO.
Added 8 months ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
No as good as Frankel
Added 1 year ago by guest, -54 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Seattle Slew tattooed him both times they met.
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12.

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Count Fleet Report Abuse
735 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 6 comments
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The first horse Frank Wright compared Secretariat to, moments after he had completed his rout of the Belmont Stakes, was … Count Fleet! Wright, a trainer and erudite TV analyst, was part of the TV team covering the Belmont. As members of that team struggled to put into words what they had just witnessed, Wright said: “Count Fleet, Man o’ War, and compare him to all the great ones, and he certainly deserves it … what an incredible effort.” Wow! Wright obviously thought very highly of The Count.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 5 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Ranked #5 on The Blood-Horse magazine’s Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century, behind only Man o’ War, Secretariat, Citation and Kelso. That’s rarefied company – the elite of the elite.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 24 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Count Fleet was America’s Champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1942, winning 10 of 15 starts (4 seconds, 1 third). He won the Champagne (8f) at Belmont by six lengths in 1:34 4/5 – a stakes and track record and the fastest mile by a juvenile to that time. His Champagne time would remain unchallenged for 34 years until surpassed by Seattle Slew. He then won the Pimlico Futurity (8.5f) by five lengths in equal track record time, won Pimlico’s Walden (8.5f) by 30 lengths and was assigned an unprecedented 132 lbs in the Experimental Free Handicap. In six starts at three he was not only undefeated, he was untouchable. He won the KY Derby by three lengths, the Preakness by eight and the Belmont by 25. This would remain the record winning margin in the Belmont until Secretariat 30 years later. Count Fleet was named Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and Horse of the Year in 1943, receiving 135 of the 143 votes for the sport’s ultimate honor.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 37 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
“He was a kind of a freak horse. He could do anything. He could go to the front, come [from] behind, and run all day. Run in the mud. It didn’t make any difference.” - Count Fleet’s jockey, Johnny Longden, on ESPN’s Jewels of the Triple Crown, uploaded to YouTube 4 Aug 2006.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 19 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Sham, Desert Orchid, and Yeats are better than Count Fleet? Give me a break.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
#30....no way! Count Fleet is one of the fastest and under rated horses of all-time. On a bad day, should at least be in the top 20.
Added 3 years ago by Dannykeith46, 19 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking

13.

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Mill Reef Report Abuse
716 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 4 comments
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Brilliant horse with an incredible acceleration! I don't understand why you wouldn't put him in the top 10!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Not very big,but my word what a fantastic racehorse he was. I certainly take issue with the last contributor, I would rate Mill Reef at number 7 in a list of the best European racehorses of the 20th century behind Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave, Shergar, Nijinsky and Brigadier Gerard. There is no doubt in my mind that Mill Reef was top class.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
As good as Mill Reef was, he shouldn't be as high on this list as he is. There were many better European champions than Mill Reef. Sea Bird, Dancing Brave, Nijinsky, Ribot, Shergar, Sea the Stars and Brigadier Gerard to name a few.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The best post-war British middle distance racehorse ever who could conquer the best of opposition by superlative margins on any type of going and win in any distance.Sea the Stars was more talented but could not cope on soft going or Dancing Brave or Brigadier Gerard for that matter.
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14.

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Shergar Report Abuse
709 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 15 comments
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I'm afraid Shergar is vastly overrated on the basis of what he actually achieved on the racecourse. Yes, he was an emphatic winner of the Epsom Derby, but let's be honest the opposition was very poor. Shergar apart, the 1981 Derby field was one of the weakest since 1950. Shergar's limitations were exposed when he contested the St Leger, where he was soundly beaten. I was shocked and angered when he was kidnapped and killed by the IRA scum.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Shergar should be a lot higher because he was one of the best horses that i have ever heard of !!! But when he was kinapped on February 8, 1983 no-body ever so him again!! He must be dead now though as it has been over 20 years now and horses usually only live up 2 30 years of age !! ( i have a horse so i should know) xx
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It's true that Shergar never beat top class opposition, but he could do no more than completely annihilate the opposition in his Derby victory. The only horse in the long history of the Epsom Derby to have had the race won when he turned into the straight.
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You've never seen a horse gallop like this fella did when he won the Derby. Scum IRA prevented Shergar from being a champion stallion at stud.
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It is ludicrous to rate Lammtarra as one of the all time greats based on just four racecourse appearances. It seems to me that he was whisked off to stud with great haste at the end of his second season, probably with a view to protecting his stud value as an unbeaten horse.
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Never ran against strong opposition ? Very strange comment , So how do you explain the record breaking time in the Derby ?
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There is no comparaison with Lamterra who never ran against a strong oppoistion! The three year horses (for instance), who ran against lamterra never proved something as 4 year old!
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the best ever
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Lammtarra was an undefeated Thoroughbred racehorse who won three Group One races in 1995 and was voted the Cartier Three-Year-Old European Champion Colt. He won the Epsom Derby in record time, the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe more or less from the front . I also watched Shergar an amazing horse one of the best ever , just think Lammtarra was a wonderhorse , to win the Epsom Derby on his first run of the season and broke the track record was truly spectacular.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I have seen every Derby winner since Psidium in 1961 and I can truthfully say that along with Sea Bird II, Shergar's win was simply jaw-dropping. I would definitely rate Shergar as one of the greatest Derby winners of all time. A truly brilliant racehorse who might have been equally brilliant at stud if he hadn't come to such a tragic end at the hands of the utterly detestable IRA.
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The only British horse that could maybe beat Lammtarra , but I doubt it
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Agree with carolanntee. However Shergar underated. His turn of foot was mind blowing. He was never extended. He deserves his place as number 4
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Shergar was in all honesty the quickest horse in the history of the sport. His turn of foot was frightening. He not only had the ability to win races but also had the ability to canter home a furlong out and still dominate races by 10 lengths, unbeleivable racehorse and in my opinion the 3rd greatest flat racehorse of all time.
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I totally agree with you, my friend, Shergar at his best was a helluva good horse and his annihilation of the 1981 Epsom Derby field will remain forever in the memory of all those who witnessed that scintillating victory.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Should be number 1, have you ever seen his Derby romp. It was the greatest racing preformance in history. His King George and Irish Derby wins also were impossible to comprehend. Undoubtably the better than 24 of the 25 above. The only horse better than him was Sea Bird II and maybe Brigadier Gerrard. Anyone that says Secretariat was the best is an idiot.
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15.

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sea the stars Report Abuse
706 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 12 comments
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Good horse, but a long way short of the best horses on this list. There are many horses below STS on this list who are better than him. Much too highly rated here.
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Only ever met poor opposition and even then he made hard work of beating them. Vastly overrated. Not one of the great racehorses
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The best way to assess greatness is probably to compare the winning margins of a racehorse against rivals at the time, running in the same race on the same track.. Allowance would need to be made for the caliber of the beaten horses, which obviously makes this a very difficult procedure. Another approach is to consider just the three great American and three great English races, which make up the Triple Crown in each country and to add in France`s greatest race, the Arc. These races are run over differing distances from the 8 furlongs of the 2000 Guineas to the 15.6 furlongs of the St Leger. America`s Triple Crown races and the Arc are intermediate to this. Times and distances can be converted to an average MPH figure over the distance. From this there is no evidence to suggest that American tracks are slower than European. On the contrary Epsom Derby speeds are consistently slower, due to the toughness of the course. It is no surprise that Secretariat at 37.83mph in the Preakness and 37.69mph in the Kentucky Derby both in 1973 is the fastest horse ever on this comparison. The fastest European horse on this basis is Sea the Stars at 37.55mph in the 2,000 Guineas, 36.91 in the Arc but only 34.45 in the Epsom Derby. All were in 2009. The fastest Canadian horse Northern Dancer ran at 37.5mph in 1964, the same speed achieved by Secretariat in the longer Belmont nine years later. His offspring Frankel ran at 37mph in the 2011 2000 Guineas whilst Seattle Stew managed 37.35mph in the slightly longer Preakness and 36.82mph in the Kentucky Derby. Man O` War in 1020 ran the Belmont at 36.89mph. at a time when speeds were generally lower than today. What does this prove? Only that it is hard to argue with the greatness of Secretariat
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
His rating here is just about right. A very good horse, but a long way short of the very best.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
we just can't compare all horses in the history of racing since i think each of them ran their share of problems and luck but this little beast Sea The Stars is just made of another metal.u've just got to hear the comments of the commentators of that famous 2009 Arc and you would know HE'S RACING GOD!!!!!!just a champion who can run over any distance from sprint to stayers' race........something out of this world.he stands on that thin line between excellence and perfection.i would never challenge someone saying he's the all time greatest!!!!
Added 2 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
For me the greatest horse I've ever had the pleasure of viewing. Hi win in the Prix du L'arc De Triomphe was probably the greatest victory I've ever seen of any horse. I'd loved to have seen him up against the best in the US......especially on turf. Would have silenced those who feel European horses 2nd best.
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Is anybody heard about " Kincsem " a hungarian race horse. Just check it out.... Theh best ever was that beast !
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Don't get me wrong, Sea The Stars is a great champion and Yes 'A Horse Of A Lifetime' but anyone who is trying to argue that he is better than Nijinsky, Shergar and Zenyatta are just totally wrong.
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When are American horses going to come over to Britain and race for the Triple Crown? The fact that they don't means that they can never be taken seriously. World records? Of course Americans hold them: they race on oval, perfectly flat, artificial surfaces as opposed to Europe's hugely varied turf courses.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
A very good racehorse - ran 2:26 for the 1-1/2 mile Prix du l'arc De Triomphe. Won all but one race, although running only 6 times as a 3 year old will certainly keep you fit, as compared to the grueling schedule for North American horses. When are European horses going to come over to America and race in the Triple Crown? A quick flight on an Airbus, get over the jet lag, and you should be ready to take on the American competition. The fact that they don't, and the fact that they run just a few races as 3-yr olds, means they can never be taken seriously. Not to mention the fact that none of them are current world record holders at any distance. Yes a good racehorse, but shouldn't be anywhere on this list. Kelso, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, War Admiral, Spectacular Bid, etc. etc. all should bump any of the non-American horses on this list.
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Magnificent horse this Sea The Stars. Dominated everything that was put on his way. His acceleration, his class, he was just too good.
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Magnifient horse, I was at Sandown for his eclipse win and he wss fantastic. A bit overatted to be 5th but yes he was a great especially when winning the Arc.
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16.

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Dahlia Report Abuse
Rarely has one horse had an impact in international horse racing comparable to this great mare. Before the Breeders’ Cup, the Dubai World Cup and the Japan Cup made multi-hemispheric horse traveling a reality, Dahlia was a one-horse road show. And what a show! She won G1s in five countries (France, Ireland, England, Canada and the US); the first horse to do so. She was the first mare to top $1 million in earnings. She won down the 5f straight course at Deauville and won multiple G1s from 10f to 12f, racing clockwise and anti-clockwise, defeating Derby winners and Arc winners. She was the UK Horse of the Year at three and four and earned divisional champion honors in Europe, Ireland and the US. There have been few greater female thoroughbreds than Dahlia at her best!
699 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
In 1953 U.S. thoroughbred racing introduced the annual honor, Champion Turf Horse. Each year it was awarded to the best horse racing on grass in America, regardless of gender. It was not until 1979 that the U.S. industry split this award by gender and introduced separate annual honors, Champion Male Turf Horse and Champion Female Turf Horse. From 1953 to 1979 only one female won the Champion Turf Horse award: Dahlia, in 1974.
Added 7 months ago by guest, 13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
In all my decades of observing horse racing around the world I have never seen a jockey so confident – and so contemptuous of his opposition! – as Piggott was on Dahlia in winning her second consecutive King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Ascot in 1974. Piggott’s exaggerated look over his left shoulder just inside the 2f marker – and his subsequent looks over both shoulders, while barely shaking the reins at her – spoke volumes for Dahlia’s almost-cruel dominance over her opponents.
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“…she defeated no less than 10 classic-winning colts, including English Derby winners Grundy, Roberto, and Snow Knight; Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe winners Rheingold and Star Appeal, plus the winners of the French and Irish Derbys, the Irish St. Leger, Grand Prix de Paris, and Belmont Stakes. And those are just the classic winners.” - Steve Haskin, BloodHorse.com, 28 July 2009.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 57 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Saw her win the DC Int'l at Laurel - awesome performance for a 3YO filly. Aussie Billy Pyres rode her. Helluva racehorse at her best!
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Correcting my post below: while Dahlia was the first three-year-old filly to win the Washington DC International she was not the only one. Two years after Dahlia’s feat, Epsom Derby runner-up Nobiliary joined Dahlia as the only three-year-old fillies to triumph in the Laurel showcase. Interestingly, both fillies were bred and owned by Nelson Bunker Hunt and trained by Maurice Zilber.
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She had a long litany of firsts, among them: first (and only) three-year-old filly to win the Washington DC International Stakes; first horse to win consecutive King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes (matched only once since, by Swain); first horse to win consecutive Benson & Hedges Gold Cups (matched only twice since, these days known as the Juddmonte International); first European-based horse to win the Canadian International Stakes; first European-based horse to win the Man o’ War Stakes; and, as mentioned above, first horse to win G1s in five different countries and first mare to top $1 million in earnings.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 60 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
For almost three decades, from 1958 to 1986, the Canadian International Stakes was run over 1 5/8 miles on the Woodbine turf (since 1987, 1 ½ m). Some great horses won it at 1 5/8, notably Secretariat in ’73. But Dahlia’s time in winning it the following year (2:40:00), coming from 21 lengths behind what Sports Illustrated called “a fairly slow pace,” was the fastest of those 29 editions of Canada’s most prestigious international thoroughbred event, 1.8 seconds faster than Secretariat’s time.
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17.

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Brigadier Gerard Report Abuse
British racehorse only ever beaten once in 17 races and that was over 10 furlongs. Never beaten when racing at a mile.
695 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
Make no mistake about it Brigadier Gerard was a fanastic horse and a great favourite of mine. But what I saw Frankel achieve over the past 3 seasons convinces me that Frankel was superior to BG.
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Brigadier Gerard lost once at York, when he was reported by his jockey to be suffering from a heavy viral infection. Joe Mercer his regular jockey has said that if Frankel could win at York, he should be rated up there with the Brigadier, whom he always called the Big Fella. Well Frankel did win at York in a faster time than the Brigadier. But, of course, he did not have the Brigadier`s abilty to win at distances all the way from 6 furlongs out to a mile and a half, A relly great horse, perhaps under-rated here because he did not race at Kentucky.
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When Frankel wins 16 races then,and only then, can we talk about Frankel in the same breath as Brigadier Gerard.
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This horse was the best miler of all time without doubt, but he has just lost his crown to Frankel
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Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel were probably the greatest specialist milers ever seen in the British Isles.
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Certainly one of the greatest milers of all time and such was his undoubted brilliance that he could win at distances far in excess of his optimum trip.
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Seeming hiw he was given a rating of 144 and lost once in 17 races he should be at least 10th best of all time.
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18.

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Dancing Brave Report Abuse
680 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 12 comments
Comments:
A rating of 17 is about right for Dancing Brave. Good horse but not one of the all time greats.
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One way of comparing horses from different Continents and different epochs, is to consider the three American and three British Triple Crown races, along with the Breeder`s Cup and the King George VI as well as the Arc. These are probably amongst the 10 most important flat races in the world. Speeds vary between the courses – the Kentucky Derby and the 2000 Guineas being generally fast races whilst the Derby and St Leger are slower. By awarding 10 points to the horse which showed the highest average speed over the years in each race, and so on down the years, you can develop a comparison Few horses cross the Atlantic. When the 2000 Guineas record holder Rock of Gibraltar did to enter the Breeder`s, he did not win. Secretariat with unbeaten records in three Triple Crown races naturally emerges as the best ever with 30 points. Second equal with 26 would come Seattle Slew and Dancing Brave. Sea the Stars one of a handful of horses to match Secretariat`s speed on other courses would have 25. Danedream the German filly, 2012 Arc winner and record holder is at 22 and Nijinsky is at 20. Galileo makes 18 and Northern Dancer thd great Canadian horse who has sired so many fine racehorses and Never Say Die St Leger and Derby winner 17. Man O` War would have scored higher if he had not run the same races as Secretariat, just fractionally slower. Dante the 1945 Epsom Derby record holder and Ribot French double Arc winner each make 15. Brigadier Gerard, Seabird 11 , Mill Reef and many other great horses that won a string of races also fare less wiell under this system, because on the day the races were slower. No mathematical system is going to convince aficionados of another horse. But this does at leas suggest that Dancing Brave and Sea the Stars should be rated more highly
Added 1 year ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Anyone who witnessed this great racehorse's performance when he won the 1986 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe could only conclude the Dancing Brave was, without doubt, a genuine contender for greatest racehorse of the 20th century. A superstar!
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Supersonic! One of the greates racehorses ever to race in Europe.
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Dancing Brave should be in the top 5 of all time a simply outstanding racing machine his Arc win was breath taking
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Won the 1986 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe as if propelled from a rocket. On THAT performance would have beaten any racehorse.
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If you want to see finishing speed , watch Lammtarra on utube ( by the way first run of the season tn ''record time'')
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Gave the best ever performance in an Arc win after Sea Bird vanquishing one of the strongest fields with the blistering surge of amissile fired.Would certainly have won the Epsom Deby but for Starkey's waiting tactics .He faced better opposition than any great British middle-distance champion and posessed the greatest finishing speed ever by a British racehorse.Was alos devastating in the Guineas.He however could not relish soft going or stay beyond a mile and a half.To me on the day of the Arc the best European racehorse since Sea Bird .
Added 3 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Yes,he SHOULD be in the top 10, at least.
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Tell me that you're kidding,jeepster! You will NEVER see a horse finish like this great champion did in the 1986 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. I cannot believe that Dancing Brave isn't in the top 10 in this list.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Good horse,but there are many better horses on this list.
Added 3 years ago by jeepster, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The best by far, just like ali
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19.

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Damascus Report Abuse
679 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
“ … a demure little horse who goes quietly on parade and handles himself with decorum at the gate. But in the heat of conflict, when his blood is up, he has iron resolution. … he was courage itself.” – From Charles Hatton’s American Racing Manual profile of Damascus.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 11 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Esteemed US racing writer and author Steve Haskin (BloodHorse.com, 14 July 2009): “Damascus ranks among the greatest horses in racing history, and certainly among the most durable horses ever seen. … the most underrated horse of all time.”
Added 1 year ago by guest, 40 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Come on! Damascus deserves to be rated much higher than this. He won against the best of his era at 2, 3 and 4. And it was some era: his rivalry with Dr. Fager and Buckpasser is right up there in US racing lore. His last race, when he broke down and had to be eased while attempting to win his second Jockey Club Gold Cup, was the only time he finished out of a place. He retired with a record of 32 – 21-7-3 and $1,176,781 in earnings. Having won three of his four starts as a juvenile, including the Remsen, he went on to have a 3yo campaign that ranks him with the elite of the elite, among his wins the Belmont, Preakness, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Woodward (beating Dr. Fager and Buckpasser by 10 len), Aqueduct Hcp (as top weight against older horses), Travers (by 22 len), American Derby, Dwyer, Bay Shore, etc. His $817,941 earnings as a 3yo stood as the sophomore record until broken by Secretariat. He was both US Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and US Horse of the Year in 1967. A truly fabulous racehorse!
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20.

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Zarkava Report Abuse
679 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
Black Caviar does not belong in the same sentence, paragraph, page, chapter or book as Zarkava.
Added 11 months ago by guest, 29 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I don't know about her being clear of Black Caviar but having both Arcs there's no doubt in my mind she would have beaten Sea The Stars. Probably one of the most underrated fillies of all time
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Agree with previous comment, Zarkava should be streets clear of Black Caviar.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 28 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
How can Black Caviar be at #10 and Zarkava at #27? Jeeeze! To be sure Zarkava raced only at two and three, but she won all seven of her starts (five G1s and one G3) including winning the Arc as a three-year-old filly. There's an immeasurable qualitative difference between winning fraudulent G1s in Australia and genuine G1s against the best in Europe.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 63 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Zarkava is the second greatest female horse of all time. Only Zenyatta betters this incredible filly. Disgrace that she is not top 10.
Added 3 years ago by guest, 4 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Superb filly.
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21.

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Native Dancer Report Abuse
One of the all- time greats and only ever beaten once,and even then was desperately unlucky and should have won.
677 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
the horse showed excellency! he was powerful and full of speed including some stamina. and i don't think it should matter where theses horses listed on here is placed, they all made it and made their names famous, bravo to all these magnificent animals
Added 1 year ago by guest, 1 point Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
to which big red are you referring
Added 2 years ago by lyoness6, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Far better horse than Big Red and had a much better winning ratio.
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but for a head in the ky derby he was the best ever
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22.

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Goldikova Report Abuse
This great French mare is still the only horse to win a Breeders’ Cup race three times – the BC Mile in ’08, ’09 and ’10. And she finished third, beaten one length, in the ’11 BC Mile. In her homeland, she won the G1 Prix Rothschild down the Deauville straight mile four years in a row. She won 14 G1s, the most by any mare bred in Europe. And she won G1s, in open company, in France, the US and England. She won every year she raced, 2 through 6, and finished off the board only once in her illustrious career, 27 – 17-6-3, for earnings equivalent of USD7,176,551.
676 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
She was European Horse of the Year (2010), twice European Champion Older Horse (2009 & 2010) and twice U.S. American Champion Female Turf Horse (2009 & 2010).
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23.

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Gladiateur Report Abuse
Thought by many to have been France's greatest thoroughbred, Gladiateur won at the highest level on both sides of the English Channel both years that he raced. He won the English Triple Crown of classics in 1865 as well as France's most prestigious race for three-year-olds, the Grand Prix de Paris. The highlight of his four-year-old campaign was returning to England and winning the Ascot Gold Cup. He retired with a 19 - 16-0-1 record and the unanimous, undying admiration of the French racing public.
675 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Vive le Gladiateur!
Added 12 months ago by guest, 15 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
For winning the English Triple Crown he was hailed by his adoring French fans as "The Avenger of Waterloo."
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24.

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Buckpasser Report Abuse
674 points - added 3 years ago by guest -

25.

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Spectacular Bid Report Abuse
667 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
Not to speak ill of the deceased, but the only "help" Bid had was his groom, Moe. Bud Delp was a brutally demanding trainer. His horses either stood up to the training or he threw them away. Derby week, Bid worked 1 mile on Sun, galloped 2 miles on Mon & Tues, worked 6f on Wed, galloped 2 miles on Thurs, blew out 2f on Friday, jogged on Derby day. As if that wasn't enough to kill all chance, Delp then put Ronnie Franklin on the horse! Bid's training went like this his entire career. And with all that, he still romped. Moe told me that the pin issue on Belmont was played down. He said the pin was a good 2.5 inches in the sole of Bid's hoof. When pulled out, it bled. The blacksmith had to pare the sole down to the point of oozing blood to get all the infection out. He never should have run. Moe said he was dead lame. They iced his feet and applied Foot Freeze, but in a 1.5 mile race, that only lasts about half the distance.Between Delps total disregard for the horse and Ronnie Frankilin's ignorant riding, it's amazing that Bid was able to ever win a race. Anytime he got beat, it was because he couldn't overcome Delp's training and Franklin's riding. He was truly a super horse and is highly underrated.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 0 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The bid is EASILY a top 5 horse of all time. He had an incredible, unbeaten 4-year old season where he set numerous records carrying high weight and running various distances. He was spectacular!
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easily top 10...one of the best ever
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I am a HUGE Spectacular Bid fan, and while I strongly feel he belongs in the top 5 horses of all-time, he was no Secretariat. Unfortunately for Bid, his ultra-disappointing failure in the Belmont Stakes significantly hurts his legacy. That's just the way it is in American horse racing, and there's nothing you or I can do to change that mindset. Best Wishes
Added 3 years ago by bigred, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Hey man Spectacular Bid was all round a better horse than Secretariat. Too much hype with Secretariat and overrated.
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Would have been dog meat to Secretariat, Man O'War,Citation,Native Dancer, Sea Bird, Phar Lap,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.
Added 3 years ago by guest, -1 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
The most complete and arguably the best racehorse to have set foot on the American turf if you analyse his complete career in terms of consistency and ability to perform in all types of going.A champion at 2,3 and 4 which Secretariat or Sea Bird were not.
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26.

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Allez France Report Abuse
The toast of French racing in the early 1970s, US-bred Allez France was a G1 winner at two, the French fillies’ Triple Crown winner and Arc runner-up at three, the Arc winner at four, and Prix Ganay winner at four and five. She was France’s Champion Two-Year-Old Filly, Champion Three-Year-Old Filly, Champion Older Mare twice, and Horse of the Year in 1974. She won 13 of her 18 starts in France including eight G1 victories. She beat her great contemporary Dahlia the six times they met on French soil but she could not match Dahlia’s globe-trotting success. Allez France lost all three of her starts outside France (one in England and two in the US).
666 points - added 1 year ago by guest -

27.

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Pearl Cap Report Abuse
The first three-year-old filly to win the Arc (1931). She beat the best colts in her age group, in what are now G1 races, both years she raced, at two and three. And she scored multiple G1 victories over the best older horses at three. A great filly – one for the ages!
665 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
Pearl Cap’s versatility was impressive. She won what are now Group races at 5.5f, 6f, 7f, 8f (twice), 12f (twice) and 12.5f.
Added 9 months ago by guest, 14 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Although Pearl Cap is rightly remembered most for her sensationally successful three-year-old campaign it is worth noting that at two she beat colts in the Prix Herod (now Listed), Prix La Rochette (now G3), Prix Robert Papin (now G2) and Prix Morny (now G1).
Added 9 months ago by guest, 13 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Yes, she was the first three-year-old filly to win the Arc. But also at three she won what is sometimes referred to as the French fillies’ Triple Crown: the Poule d'Essai des Pouliches, Prix de Diane and Prix Vermeille (all now G1s). And she beat older horses of both genders in the Arc and the Prix Jacques Le Marois (both now G1s).
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She also produced 1947 Epsom Derby winner Pearl Diver who, at 40/1, upset boom colt Tudor Minstrel (4th).
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28.

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Alleged Report Abuse
664 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
The only two-time winner of the Arc in the nearly six decades since Ribot did it. Twice the top-rated horse in Europe in the annual International Classification. Twice the top-rated horse in Timeform’s annual rankings. Won nine of his 10 starts. His only “failure” was a second in the St. Leger to Dunfermline whom he then beat comfortably in the Arc. A better record than some above him here.
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29.

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War Admiral Report Abuse
Triple crown winner and offspring of Man O' War
664 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
Brilliant horse but personally feel Seabiscuit was better. Despite the age difference and the race being run to War Admirals favourite conditions, Seabiscuit still beat War Admiral fair and square in the match race.
Added 2 years ago by guest, 2 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I'm actually surprised that War Admiral isn't higher on the list. Perhaps people feel that the son of Man o' War shouldn't be so closely ranked, but War Admiral was an astonishing horse.
Added 2 years ago by Emerald01, 3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
I say war admiral is better than seabiscuit. He was man o wars best colt i do belive
Added 2 years ago by guest, -3 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Seabiscuit was good and considered better because he was not thought in the first place to be race horse material! Unlike War Admiral.
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Sorry Seabiscuit lovers. I know Seabiscuit won the great match race. But look at the record. War Admiral was 100 times the better horse. Yet Seabiscuit is ranked higher.
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Great horse,definatley not the best, Still great
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30.

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Gallant Fox Report Abuse
664 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
As Gallant Fox left the racetrack and headed for stud, where he would become the only Triple Crown winner to sire a Triple Crown winner (Omaha), The Blood-Horse wrote of him: "Since the retirement of Man o' War no horse has captured the imagination of the American public as has Gallant Fox. After a relatively light campaign as a two-year-old, he swept like a meteor across the racing sky of 1930 and when he was retired for all times after his bloodless triumph in the Jockey Club Gold Cup he was more than a racehorse - he was an institution."
Added 1 year ago by guest, 21 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Gallant Fox not only won the Triple Crown in 1930, he won every important sophomore Stakes race except the Travers in which, famously, he was runner-up to 100-to-1 shot Jim Dandy. His 10 – 9-1-0 season saw him sweep the Wood Memorial, Preakness, KY Derby, Belmont, Arlington Classic, Dwyer and Lawrence Realization before conquering older foes in the Saratoga Cup and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He retired as a three-year-old with the highest earnings of any thoroughbred to that time, $328,165. In 17 career starts he thus had average earnings per start of $19,303 … a stunning statistic for that time.
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31.

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Regret Report Abuse
In a short but sensationally successful career, Regret proved to be one of America’s greatest female racehorses. She was unbeaten at two, still the only filly to have won Saratoga’s storied trio of juvenile stakes: the Saratoga Special, Sanford and Hopeful. She beat colts in all three races including that year’s top juvenile male Pebbles. In her first start at three she beat Pebbles again, this time in the Kentucky Derby – the first filly to win the Run for the Roses. In her only other start at three she beat Belmont Stakes winner and champion colt of that year, The Finn, in the Saranac. Thus she was unbeaten at two and three, beat colts in all five starts and defeated the champion colt of each year. She suffered her first defeat, and only off-the-board finish, at four. But she came back to win three of her four starts at five, her only loss being by a nose in the Brooklyn – a race that featured three KY Derby winners and two Horses of the Year, and was run in US record time. No female ever finished in front of her.
663 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 6 comments
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In response to an earlier post here, Regret not only won the KY Derby in her first start at three, she won it in her first start beyond 6f. Astonishing!
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The legendary Col. Matt J. Winn, longtime President of Churchill Downs who saw each of the first 75 Kentucky Derbies (1875-1949), said in his autobiography that Regret’s win in 1915 made the Kentucky Derby “an American institution.”
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Exterminator also won the KY Derby in his first start at three.
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Sir Barton also won the KY Derby in his first start at three. And he was a maiden to boot!
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She was retrospectively named Champion Two-Year-Old Filly of 1914 and Champion Three-Year-Old Filly AND Horse of the Year in 1915. Amazing filly indeed!
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Not only was she the first filly to win the Kentucky Derby but she did it in her first start as a three-year-old. Somewhat like Lammtarra winning the Epsom Derby in his first start at three. Amazing filly!
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32.

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Tudor Minstrel Report Abuse
661 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 7 comments
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His reputation as a great miler rests on only three wins at 8f: the 2,000 Guineas (won by 8 lengths), St. James’s Palace Stakes (only two opponents) and Knights’ Royal Stakes (now the QE II Stakes). In a 10-race career, these are the only wins he had in what are now G1 races. At his two starts beyond a mile he finished a distant fourth behind a 40/1 outsider in the 12f Epsom Derby – and he was a decisively beaten second in the 10f Eclipse Stakes. Notwithstanding his undefeated four starts at two and his brilliant win in the Guineas at three, his career was too short and one-dimensional to rank him in the top 50 racehorses of all time.
Added 9 months ago by guest, 31 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Uh? The post three down says " ... Tudor Minstrel and Man O' War raced in the 1930s and 1940s ..." Man o' War raced in neither decade; he raced in 1919 and 1920.
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One of the best milers ever seen in Europe.
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A real superstar miler. Unquestionably one of the greatest racehorses ever to grace a racetrack.
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People fail to realise the fact that because horses such as Tudor Minstrel and Man O' War raced in the 1930s and 1940s, they are still regarded as truly great thoroughbreds. Racetracks, and training methods may have changed a great deal in 80 years,but great horses still appear in every era and Tudor Minstrel and Man O'War are no exeptions.
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Probably the greatest miler to race in Europe in the Twentieth Century,with Brigadier Gerard not far behind.
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Brilliant racehorse and regarded by many knowledgeable pundits as one of the greatest European milers.
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33.

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Miesque Report Abuse
A dual G1 winner as a juvenile in France, she was that country’s Champion Two-Year-Old-Filly in 1986. At three she won the English 1,000 Guineas and the French equivalent, the Poule d’Essai des Pouliches, before devastating a field of mostly older males in the Breeders’ Cup Mile at Hollywood Park in a track record 1:32 4/5. At four she continued to win at the highest level in France before returning to the US to score another devastating victory in the Breeders’ Cup Mile at Churchill Downs – the first horse to win two BC races. She never finished off the board (16 – 12-3-1) with 10 of her 12 wins being G1s. In her three seasons of racing she won nine end-of-year Champion awards on two continents.
655 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 1 comment
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Not only beloved in France but Miesque is also in the U.S. Thoroughbred Hall of Fame.
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34.

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Ormonde Report Abuse
Was there ever a better racehorse, anywhere, than Ormonde? The English-bred colt won at the highest level in his homeland every year he raced (2, 3 and 4) and retired having won all 16 of his starts including the 1886 English Triple Crown. He beat the best horses of his age group and his era, at distances from 6f to 16f, often giving his high-class opponents significant weight advantages.
654 points - added 1 year ago by guest -

35.

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Round Table Report Abuse
654 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 2 comments
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Retired in 1959 as the richest thoroughbred of all time with earnings of $1,749,869 and although best remembered for his dominance on grass (US Champion Turf Horse in three successive years) he also won at the highest level, in record times, on dirt. Had he better handled off tracks he would have been in the Top 10 of all time.
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How can Round Table be rated so low? He won at the highest level every year he raced (2 thru 5) compiling a 66 – 43-8-5 record, became only the third American thoroughbred to top $1 million in earnings ($1.75 million), set or equaled 14 track records and was US Champion Turf Horse in three consecutive years and Champion Turf Horse, Champion Male Handicap Horse and Horse of the Year in 1958. This is the record of a genuine champion!
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36.

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Pretty Polly Report Abuse
Irish-bred Pretty Polly was one of the great mares of all time. Her 24 – 22-2-0 record included an undefeated nine-race juvenile season in England when she twice beat top colt St. Amant (who would win the 2,000 Guineas and Derby the next year). At three she won the 1,000 Guineas in record time, the Epsom Oaks and then deprived St. Amant of the Triple Crown by beating him in the St. Leger in record time. Her 15-race win streak ended with a harrowing trip to Paris and a second in the Prix du Conseil Municipal while giving weight to older males. At four she won the Coronation Cup, in record time that stood for 23 years. At five she won the Coronation again but suffered her second defeat when runner up in the Ascot Gold Cup, her last race.
652 points - added 1 year ago by guest -

37.

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Kizil Kourgan Report Abuse
Kizil Kourgan was a contemporary of the great English filly Spectre. They raced against each other only once, in the 1902 Grand Prix de Paris - France’s richest and most prestigious race at that time. The result was a decisive victory for Kizil Kourgan. She also won the French fillies’ Triple Crown: the Poule d'Essai des Pouliches (equivalent of the 1,000 Guineas), Prix de Diane (Oaks) and Prix Royal-Oak (St. Leger). In addition to beating the best colts in the Grand Prix de Paris and the Prix Royal-Oak, she did likewise in the prestigious Prix Lupin. Kizil Kourgan was sometimes referred to by the English as “the French Sceptre” – and Sceptre was sometimes referred to by the French as “the English Kizil Kourgan.”
650 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Another misspelling of Sceptre. Whoever keeps misspelling this great filly's name please write 100 times: Sceptre not Spectre. Thank you.
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She also produced the first dual winner of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, Ksar.
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38.

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Spectre Report Abuse
No list of the best ever racehorses is complete without the filly Sceptre very high up. She is still the only three-year-old to win four English classics outright: the 1,000 Guineas, 2,000 Guineas, Epsom Oaks and St. Leger. [Formosa won the same four classics in 1868 but dead-heated in the 2,000 Guineas]. Sceptre finished fourth in the 1902 Derby after being left at the start. Several times she competed in major events one and two days apart, such as the two Guineas, the Derby and Oaks and the Coronation Stakes and St. James’s Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot. A dual Stakes winner at two and a four-time Classic winner at three, she went on to win the Hardwicke, Jockey Club, Duke of York and Champion Stakes at four.
649 points - added 1 year ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
This horse's name is misspelled in the headline. It is Sceptre (not Spectre).
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39.

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Exterminator Report Abuse
649 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 4 comments
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Very revealing quotes from Knapp and Winn below. This horse, a genuine great, is much underrated!
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The Binghamton Press, reporting the death of Exterminator on Wed., Sep. 26, 1945: “It was comparatively recently that Colonel [Matt J.] Winn, head of Churchill Downs and an acknowledged authority on horseflesh, ranked Exterminator as ‘the greatest all-around American thoroughbred I ever saw.’ He said he based his choice on ‘speed, courage, stamina, intelligence and perhaps more important, durability’.”
Added 1 year ago by guest, 56 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Grand old horse who exhibited rare durability and longevity. Won as a two-year-old and as a nine-year-old, and every year in between! Won the KY Derby at three and was U.S. Horse of the Year at seven! Was U.S. Champion Older Male Horse at five, six and seven. Won the then prestigious Saratoga Cup a unique four straight years. The Hall of Fame website, and other sources, suggest his 33 Stakes wins remains a record to this day. Long after Exterminator finally retired, Hall of Fame jockey Willie Knapp, who rode him in his early years and later trained him, said: “When he was at his best Exterminator could have beaten Man o’ War or Citation or Kelso or any other horse that ever lived …” Knapp had a unique credibility in making that comparison to Man o’ War: he was the only jockey to have beaten Man o’ War when he rode Upset to victory in the 1919 Sanford at Saratoga.
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some folks believe this horse is the reason why MOW was retired....riddle is said he did not wish to face hism
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40.

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Equipoise Report Abuse
648 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 7 comments
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“Ranked by many as a greater race horse than Man O’ War.” – George Kirksey, United Press correspondent, reporting on Equipoise’s win in the Arlington Hcp on 22 July 1933, as published in the Pittsburgh Press (and elsewhere) on 23 July 1933.
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I can’t find any film of Equipoise’s world record mile but the official chart of the race said he “went to the front easily and had something to spare.” John Hervey, the famous racing historian of that era, wrote that not only had Equipoise won “without having been asked for his best” but that “non-official watches [showed] even faster time than that announced.” It sounds like a much easier win than Queally showing Frankel the whip over most of the last 3f of the Guineas and whipping him at least four times.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 17 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Re the post immediately below: Equipoise's world record mile was run on a one-turn dirt track where he spent 2f negotiating a U-turn. Frankel did his down a straight one-mile turf track. Big advantage going straight versus going around an oval's turn.
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Equipoise's world record mile of 1:34 2/5 or, converting it to tenths of seconds, 1:34.4, was 2.9 seconds faster than Frankel's fastest mile of 1:37.3. That's a margin of 14.5 lengths! And Equipoise ran his fastest mile 79 years earlier than Frankel ran his!
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LOL, yes I love that song.
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Perhaps the only horse on this list celebrated in the lyrics of an iconic Broadway musical, the Damon Runyon-inspired “Guys And Dolls.” And just a minute boys / I’ve got the feedbox noise / It says the great grandfather / Was Equipoise
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Best remembered as America’s handicap champion of the early 1930s, Equipoise was also an outstanding juvenile and was named co-champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1930, with Jamestown. Among his eight wins that year was the prestigious Pimlico Futurity in which he was left at the start but was still able to beat illustrious peers Twenty Grand and Mate. His jockey Sonny Workman is widely reported as saying “it may have been the greatest race anybody ever saw.” Sickness cut short his three-year-old campaign after he finished fourth in the Preakness (then the first leg of the Triple Crown). But he bounced back to dominate the handicap ranks at four, including setting a world record of 1:34 2/5 for 8f at Arlington Park. He was named both Champion Older Horse and Horse of the Year that year, 1932, was given the same two honors again in 1933 and was named Champion Older Horse yet again in 1934. Heck of a racehorse!
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41.

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Whirlaway Report Abuse
629 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 6 comments
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Joe Palmer wrote of Whirlaway in The Blood-Horse: "He carries in his armament the deadliest weapon a thoroughbred can have - an annihilating burst of speed which he can apparently turn on at any stage of a race."
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First horse to earn half-a-million dollars and retired in 1943 as the highest earning racehorse to that time with $561,161 in his career bank.
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Whirlaway broke the KY Derby record which had stood for 10 years and his record, 2:01 2/5, stood for 21 years.
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Of the 11 U.S. Triple Crown winners, only three of them were awarded the ultimate accolade, Horse of the Year, twice: Affirmed at 3 and 4; Secretariat at 2 and 3; and Whirlaway at 3 and 4.
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Whirlaway should be ahead of Phar Lap. Eddie Arcaro saw PL race at Agua Caliente and was enormously impressed by him - perhaps more than he should have been given that PL beat nothing. But Arcaro rated Whirlaway better than PL - Phil Georgeff's 2003 book on Citation being one of several sources quoting Arcaro on Whirlaway's superiority over PL.
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Whirlaway was the 1941 triple crown winner. He deserves to be higher on the list than 62. My parents watched him run the first leg of the Triple Crown at Churchill Downs on their first date. They were married 10 days later and were married 63 years until my mothers death. He will always have a special place in my heart as a great horse in his and my history.
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42.

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Lammtarra Report Abuse
627 points - added 4 years ago by guest - 9 comments
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Well argued.
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Are my eyes deceiving me? Lammtarra at #41? LAMMTARRA??? Some posters here suggest his short career (only four starts) prevents him from higher consideration. Well surely that depends on what he did in those four starts. And this is what he did: Won his only start as a two-year-old in the 7f Listed Washington Singer Stakes at Newbury. More than 300 days later, in his first start as a three-year-old, he won the G1 Epsom Derby in race record time that stood for 15 years and has only been bettered once. Next he won the G1 King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes, Britain’s most prestigious mile-and-a-half contest for three-year-olds and up. And he concluded his three-year-old season, and his career, by winning the G1 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe against Europe’s crème de la crème. Why does this not entitle Lammtarra to a much higher rating here than #41? A short career, yes. But there are quite a few horses rated above him here who did not achieve in longer careers anything comparable to what Lammtarra did in his short career.
Added 1 year ago by guest, 44 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
could be a good/great horse...who knows...4 races do not make a career...
Added 2 years ago by lyoness6, -12 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Obviously a top class horse, but 4 races is not enough to rate him among the very best. I suspect that his Arab connections were more interested in his stud value as an unbeaten thoroughbred. Rated far too high on this list ,should be mid 40's.
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take a look at his times , the derby stands out being his FIRST run of the season, Are you saying Swain was not a top class horse ?
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Good horse but never ran against a strong opposition!
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Number one in my opionion , won the Derby with his first run of the season , in record time !
Added 3 years ago by guest, 6 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Set the course record after winning the Epsom Derby, which was only bettered last year when Workforce won . Considering Lammtarra had such limited racing experience he must have been a brilliant racehorse, opposition notwithstanding.
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Brilliant. Absolutley brilliant 4 wins from 4 starts and just magnificent. Top 20 at least.
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43.

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Colin Report Abuse
625 points - added 3 years ago by guest - 4 comments
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Like Secretariat, Colin was awarded U.S. racing's ultimate accolade, Horse of the Year, at both two and three - the only years he raced. [Of course, for Colin's era, 1907 and 1908, the honors were awarded retrospectively].
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The legendary Charles Hatton, who observed and chronicled American horse racing from pre-Man o’ War to post-Secretariat, was renowned for his aversion to describing horses as “great.” He was asked in 1973, Secretariat’s three-year-old year, to name his five “greatest” horses. He replied he could name only four: Man o’ War, Sysonby, Colin … and Secretariat.
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James Rowe, Sr., described by the Hall of Fame as “arguably the most successful trainer in the history of Thoroughbred racing,” once said (according to his write-up on the HoF website) that he wanted his epitaph to read, simply: “He trained Colin.”
Added 1 year ago by guest, 28 points Vote + to improve this comment's ranking Vote - to decrease this comment's ranking
Should be way up there he won all his 15 races!
Added 3 years ago by guest, 11 points