1.
Secretariat
At the age of 2, Secretariat was crowned Horse of the Year for his remarkable racing history. He only finished out of the top 3 one time during his career, and that was his first race.
1396 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 239 comments
Comments:
An eminent physicist once remarked that a mind like Isaac Newton's only comes along once every 500 years. Maybe. Well it may just be that a horse like Secretariat only comes along once every 500 years as well. Maybe.
Added 7 years ago by guest, 0 points
1:59-2/5 1:53 2:24 The phenomenal Secretariat. Long may he reign!
Added 7 years ago by guest, 5 points
Secretariat still holds the record times for each of the Triple Crown races some 44 years - and counting - later! Kentucky Derby 1:59-2/5 Preakness Stakes 1:53 flat Belmont Stakes 2:24 flat The closest any horse has come to Secretariat's breathtaking time of 2:24 in a mile and a half on dirt on any track in the world is 2:25-4/5. That's 9 lengths!
Added 7 years ago by guest, 3 points
"It is as if God had decided to create the perfect horse." -Chick Lang
Added 7 years ago by guest, 3 points
"Make no mistake, my friends. He was the greatest racehorse who ever lived, and I was the luckiest guy in the world to be on his back." -Ron Turcotte
Added 7 years ago by guest, 4 points
"The Derby made him a star. The Preakness made him spectacular. And the Belmont made him immortal." -Bill Nack
Added 7 years ago by guest, 3 points
It is immensely telling that whenever this racehorse or that one world over is touted as the greatest of all time, he, or in a very few cases she, is invariably compared to the immortal Secretariat. As Charles Hatton wrote, Secretariat's "only point of reference is himself."
Added 7 years ago by guest, 5 points
There have been many great race horses, but only a single supernatural one: Secretariat.
Added 7 years ago by guest, 3 points
The real unbeatable record of Secretariat are 3 louds stormy punches ( Triple Crown ) whom will stay for a long time yet !! Actually we are at 42 years since 1973 records and from 50 years in 2023 his fame will grow up and upper !!
The greatest..........unbeatable .
Added 8 years ago by guest, 4 points
And one more thing.You say that to be considered as "greatest of all time" a horse must win the Triple Crown but here in the UK this is unlikely ever to happen again as many trainers shun the St Leger.The Triple Crown here has to be won over 8,12 and then 14 furlongs(2000 Guineas-Derby-St Leger),In the US,its won over 10,9 1/2 and then 12 furlongs(Derby-Preakness-Belmont).Plus your tracks are truly flat,ours are not.Our Triple Crown is a stronger test of a racehorses ability to combine speed with staying power.
I do in principle agree that a horse like Frankel has not won a broad enough spectrum of races to be considered "greatest".He was a miler like Brigadier Gerard and your Spectacular Bid.They cannot be in the equation agreed.
Seabird,Shergar,Mill Reef,Lammtarra,Nijinsky and Sea the Stars all proved themselves by winning at different distances in the classic races and must be in the equation.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 3 points
Hold on,hold on.Dirt is more consistent than turf which varies with weather.Plus Nijinsky's Derby time was record-breaking at the time.Also the incentive is to win the race not to break the record.I am going to give you Secretariat as best racehorse of all time but not because of the argument you made.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 0 points
To be great,you must win the TC,either side of the pond,it does not matter.Then once you have done that,you need the fast times to be considered the greatest of all time.Here are American Pharaoh's times for the TC 2015: 2:03:02 in the Derby, 1:58:45 in Preakness and an impressive 2:26:65 in the Belmont.
You can compare these times to the greatest horse of all time,Secretariat. 1:59:40 in Derby, 1:53:00 in Preakness and 2:24:00 in Belmont.
Now to Europe(or more specifically UK).They have 5 classics,of which 3 form the TC(2000 Guineas,Epsom Derby and St Leger).There is only one racehorse(nijinsky) that has won the TC in the modern era.Before him,you have to go back 80 years for the penultimate winner of the TC,Bahram.
Nijinsky's times in the TC were not record-breaking but solid and his jockey said he "was always cantering".
So horses like Frankel and Shergar that were undeniably "great" never can be in the reckoning for "greatest of al time" because they didnt accomplish the only real test by which this accolade can be judged.Win the great races(TC) and win them in the fastest time.It is that simple.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 3 points
Regarding Sham, the perspective that time gives us makes us appreciate what a very, very good horse he was. In any other year he would have won 2 of the TC legs, and most likely all three. We would be admiring him in the same way we do Affirmed, Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid. These were all great horses, but great was still along way from Secretariat.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 4 points
Forego did have trouble with sham. Sham was a greatone. He was Tc material affirmed alydar and s bid would have trouble with him feel sorry for him. He ran gallant. But in the Belmont i dont blame pincay for trying to keep up how could he know Bigred was a machine.
Added 9 years ago by guest, -4 points
Mow was great so were the other tc winners and who knows when things happen like bigbrown and animalkingdon. But when they dont race sidebyside and you cant compare heart sizes the times and records is the only gauge. BigRed is the king. So onion beat him once, whats the reason also is onion legendary and prove out, same question is he another Mow. I saw Bigred and look every year Barbaro? I wonder what secretariat times would be in those races where he took of "last, last again" his Derby slow start and running wide i ll guess 1:58flat. Man what a heart. At the first Turcotte couldnt know how much tremendous machine he had in his hands.
Added 9 years ago by guest, -1 points
for anyone to say that Secretariat was not the best race horse of all time is simply silly. Many very good race horses have emotional reactions from people. I get that. But they cannot stand up to the performance of that incredible horse in 1973. And by the way, times do matter. It is the common denominator that allows us to compare horses thru the years. No horse today or yesterday can compare to Secretariats great feats in the triple crown.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 11 points
should not be first man o' war is better. just because that secretariat got a movie made of hin and he is fast don't mean hes the best
Added 9 years ago by guest, -29 points
To the prior post....well said! In sports, an athlete's immortality/greatness is defined by the definitive manner of their world-class achievements, NOT by their W/L record. It is in this area that Secretariat stands tall among the rest via his still standing record times in the 3 TC races, his uncanny combination of supernatural "speed and staying" power, and his virtual physics defying performances in the Belmont Stakes (no horse has EVER got within 9 lengths....9 lengths....of his 2:24 12F dirt track time; Kentucky Derby when he accelerated an ENTIRE 10F from start to finish, ending the race with an unfathomable 23 second final quarter; Marlboro Cup when he not only set a 9F world record (only bested by 0.2 seconds over the past 41 years, but "pulled-up" 1F post wire at 1:57.8 to tie Spectacular Bid's 10F world record. Secretariat finished 1st 17 out of 21 races (he was disqualified & placed 2nd in the Champagne Stakes as a 2-year old); with 2 of his 4 losses due to unmistakable illness, his Maiden race when he was crushed out of the gate and pinned down on the rail the entire by severe jockey error, and the Woodward Stakes when he was thrown into a 12F race with ZERO dirt track training fro 2.5 weeks and NO TRAINING on any surface for some 5 days! To cite an example, if W/L record is the superior barometer to measure the best, why isn't Rocky Marciano and his 49-0 record acknowledged by boxing experts as the greatest fighter ever??? Simply stated, because at PEAK VALUE, Ali, Robinson, Louis, etc. were simply better boxers...PERIOD! Once again, combined speed and staying power, NO HORSE at PEAK VALUE can compare to Secretariat!
Added 10 years ago by bigred, 7 points
Prove Out was good...But a great horse can be beaten.Even Sec.An off day,an illness.an unfamiliar jockey.an unlucky line etc.Being unbeaten shoulnt be part of the judgment.The 73 TC wins were his finest hour and he should be judged on these.All 3 times remain intact and the Belmont is UNIVERSALLY acknowledged as the greatest display of equine speed ever.Thats pretty decisive.
Added 10 years ago by guest, -8 points
When Jerkens got Prove Out going right in 1973 he was awesome, running record times and beating the likes of Secretariat, Forego, Riva Ridge and Cougar II. But a horse’s greatness is determined his/her career, not on one race or one campaign. Secretariat won 76% of his starts; Prove Out 23%. In 33% of his starts Secretariat scored GI wins; Prove Out 5%. Secretariat had career earnings of $1,316,808 (Average Earnings Per Start $62,705); Prove Out $270,426 (AEPS $6,934). Secretariat won three Classics (all in record times that still stand); Prove Out nil. Secretariat was Horse of the Year both years he raced (at 2 and 3); Prove Out nil. To go on would be to pile on, and Prove Out doesn't deserve that. Yes, Prove Out beat Secretariat emphatically in the Woodward – but when you evaluate their careers, Secretariat was a significantly superior racehorse.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 27 points
If you want to be taken seriously in claiming that a particular horse was better than Secretariat, at least spell the horse's name correctly: Prove Out (two words).
Added 10 years ago by guest, 4 points
Proveout was too good for him. No excuses.
Did he win the Arc nope he won the Canadian international.
Added 10 years ago by guest, -21 points
Secretariat didn't just win each of the Triple Crown races in record time (see post below), each of those records still stands, 41 years later!
Added 10 years ago by guest, 25 points
What California Chrome could NOT do just emphasizes the awe-inspiring triumph of what Secretariat DID do: won each of the Triple Crown races in record time – and finished off the gut-busting challenge by winning the Belmont with one of the greatest performances in thoroughbred history.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 17 points
Obvious first pick on anyone's list but of course that doesnt mean that there arent comparable horses.ManoWar may have been his equal we cant know for sure.Interesting that horse-racing can generate such a lengthy debate but..Big Red was something very special.Personally,I'd place him best of all time ahead of MOW but others dont so who knows for sure?
Added 10 years ago by guest, 4 points
To whom, I have been following this childish squabble which has no place here. I have contributed to this site before and will list my initials. The original post simply used subtle means to initiate a discussion on ed bowen and his remarks on secretariat and manowar. I too am familiar with his works and comments. Mr. Bowen who wrote the bio on Manowar has relied on polls to inform his positions on the two horses and has offered no real analysis in their place. Mr. Bowen is a respected author who at one time worked for BloodHorse. I too have found at least some of his argumentation worthy of critique, for instance he is on record saying time records are of little value when comparing horses. If that is true, then at least half of manowar's legacy can be truncated for most of his biographers cite his records endlessly. Just read Dorothy Our's work 'A Legend Like Lighting". The original post cites specifics: polls, tracks, shoes, even genetics as points of discussion. No one responded to that. Well I will. Research has shown that horses have gotten faster over time, independent of tracks, shoes, etc, and this not even the so called experts who voted for manowar in those polls ever addressed. So introduce this into your discussion and see where it goes, if something meaningful ensues. As for my part it is done. RaCarde
Added 10 years ago by guest, -13 points
Tracks and technology has improved over time yes but that cannot All the difference seen in Time and improvements in performance. Some 20 lengths separate KD times in current times and those in the early 20s. Track, gates, shoes does not explain all of that....
Added 10 years ago by guest, 0 points
Well what do you say? This is what Ed Bowen has said in many places...He wrote the book on ManoWar. He waters down Secretariat's achievements all the time and references polls as if they were scientific proof of his claims...You know the polls I'm sure you do, all 3 of them...Are polls enough????? Are you Ed Bowen? I am not but this is what he has said in many places....
Added 10 years ago by guest, 4 points
BEST EVER!! PERIOD
Added 10 years ago by guest, 13 points
ed bowen says: "look, its the polls, the polls, the pools...Manowar wins by a landslide....the polls.."
Added 10 years ago by guest, -31 points
come on people..Mano was superhuman..he had a 50ft stride, could run the mile in one minute flat, and it would take an impost of 300 lbs for Mano to loose...and the Polls, the Polls, the Polls, the Polls tell us truth....that is what Ed Bowen tells us!!!!!what about that????
Added 10 years ago by guest, -33 points
TRUTH IS....with BOTH horses at 100%, Secretariat would BURY Phar Lap! Please, don't compare Phar Lap with Secretariat because SEC could do things on a race track Phar Lap couldn't even DREAM OF!!!!
Added 10 years ago by bigred, 25 points
The Yanks have us beat on this.Secretariat was undeniably the greatest thoroughbred of all time.I believe his WR time will stand forever.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 27 points
Andy Beyer quoted on the PBS NewsHour website, 10 June 2011: “ … Secretariat’s Belmont Stakes was … probably the greatest single horse race ever run.” “The time of the race [the Belmont] was almost beyond imagining.” "Secretariat was in a different dimension than any other horse we've seen in modern times."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 51 points
At the peak of their careers, in the spring/summer of their three-year-old campaigns, both Secretariat and Ruffian won on New York tracks, officially rated as fast, at 8f, 9f and 12f. Each recorded his/her fastest winning times for these distances in these races. At 8f: Secretariat won the Gotham at Aqueduct in 1:33 2/5; Ruffian won the Acorn at Aqueduct in 1:34 2/5 (advantage Sec by 1 sec = 5 len). At 9f: Secretariat won the Marlboro Cup at Belmont in 1:45 2/5; Ruffian won the Mother Goose at Aqueduct in 1:47 4/5 (advantage Sec by 2 2/5 sec = 12 len). At 12f: Secretariat won the Belmont in 2:24; Ruffian won the CCA Oaks at Belmont in 2:27 4/5 (advantage Sec by 3 4/5 sec = 19 len). Which leads one apparently crack-addled galoot to post below that Ruffian was “way better” than Secretariat. Yeah, sure.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 64 points
Yes, objectively, Ruffian's record - great as it was against her own age and gender - does not begin to measure up to Secretariat's. IF there was a filly from that era who might have been competitive with Secretariat it would have been Dahlia, on grass. Her wins at three against the best older horses in the King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes and in the Washington DC International were truly awesome. And don't forget she won the '74 Canadian International in nine lengths faster time than Secretariat won it the year before. I'm not saying she WOULD have beaten the great horse but her record says she would have had a better chance to do so than Ruffian.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 46 points
So Ruffian was “way better” than “this dirt bag” Secretariat? And we wonder what’s wrong with horse racing today. May I suggest: a chronic ignorance of the sport’s history and, partly as a result of that ignorance, a crippling inability to analyze and evaluate the sport’s stars. Ruffian was a great filly who met a fate as tragic as it was too soon. But she never raced outside her age group and never completed a race against anything but fillies. In each of the Triple Crown races Secretariat set records that, incredibly, still stand – 40 years later! As a three-year-old he also took on and beat the best older horses at G1 level , on both dirt and turf, and set a world record (9f, dirt) and a Belmont track record (12f, turf) in doing so. By objective, provable fact, Ruffian was not a better racehorse than Secretariat (not “way better” or any degree better). And to denigrate Secretariat as a “dirt bag” is simply beyond the pale of sound mindedness.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 87 points
Saw them both. Loved Ruffian. She was a brilliant speed horse, but couldn't maintain speed over distance like Secretariat. Anything from a mile and over, he was much the better.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 28 points
Ruffian. Was way better than this dirt bag
Added 11 years ago by guest, -32 points
right...and that is on dirt...the real test of greatness is the dirt track...the Belmont track can punish any pretenders of greatness...but I am sure it got a taste of its own medicine from secretariat...
Added 11 years ago by guest, 6 points
Additionally, how about posting a 1:09.8 for the first 3/4 mile and 1:34.2 mile, and then breezing to a 25 second final quarter! You are ABSOLUTELY correct....what Secretariat accomplished on June 9, 1973 stretches far beyond the physical limits of what a thoroughbred is capable of!!!
Added 11 years ago by bigred, 15 points
I don't think there was and will be another racehorse that can do a 461/5 on the first 2 quarters and still breeze home with a 25 on a mile and a half race...I don't think the tracks nor the equipment nor the drugs has anything to do with such a display of speed and staying power...not even a fiction writer can create one...secretariat is simply the best...
Added 11 years ago by guest, 9 points
Yes, its an absurdity. Think of it in human terms. The ave finishing times in the 100 meter dash at the world level has dropped considerably in the last 50 years. It used to be well over 10 seconds to run. Now its well under 10 seconds, prob around 9.9 or so. Are we to say that this is solely due to lighter shoes, better racing venues and tracks? An absurdity. What is left out is the human factor. Athletes themselves have gotten faster over time. The new record is now 9.58 seconds or so, Usane Bolt? Just lighter shoes, etc? Ridiculous. Its the same with the thoroughbred breed. It too, on average, has gotten faster over time, independently of tracks, shoes,etc....How? Very good stallions and mares, pedigree, larger crops, etc....
Added 11 years ago by guest, 2 points
To me, the best way to see the fallacy of the "tracks are faster now" argument is to look not at MOW at all, but some of his contemporaries and near contemporaries. I gather the technology arguers would claim an approximately 3 second advantage per mile due to plates and track surface. Even if we say 2 seconds, that would mean that Mad Hatter, two years in a row, had the equivalent of a 3:18 JCGC, putting him significantly ahead of the great Kelso. More importantly, both the place and show horses (Pillory and the filly Bit o' White), who were only 2 lengths back, would also have beaten Kelso's BEST time at the two mile distance. Do we really believe that not just Mad Hatter, but also Pillory and Bit o" White were better than Kelso? People who argue the technology angle can't pick and chose which horses to whom that allowance should be applied.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
I have read of few pieces written by Ed Bowen including his book on ManOWar, and he just seems to consider time records as irrelevent and unreliable. Yet ManOWar set a slew of them in his era. Most of them were broken within a few years leaving only his 1 5/8th record as his longest standing, over 70 years at Belmont I think. Pls note that that distance is one that is not run often. The Gallant Fox, if is still exists today, might be the only one left, an ungraded Stakes race ran on the last Saturday of the year. Yes sir you are correct.....the track that day in 1973 was not that fast. Beyer determined that it had slowed a bit and in his original figure of 148 (Beyer adjusted it to 139 using his year 2000 tables), he estimated a slightly slower track by some 3 to 4 fifths of a second. Time is not the only test of the strength of a track record. Crop size is too. Since Secs records were set, over 1 million thoroughbreds have been foaled in North America, a staggering number. And still only 1 or two of his records have been broken. The more horses bred, the chance of breeding great horses increase. Yet most of Secs records still stand. His 9 furlong world record lasted for some 18 years, broken only on the faster west coast tracks and by only two horses, both 4 year olds i think. Still he owns the track record for the distance at Belmont. But according to Ed Bowen, this doesnt matter. Lighter shoes and better surfaces explains faster times. Horses getting better? Well I have yet to see him address this. rac
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
Does Ed Bowen dismiss the FACT that on June 9, 1973, ALL of the Belmont Stakes races were running 5 to 10 lengths short of track records for those distances (explaining why Beyer predicted a 2:27 time)??? Or does he dismiss the FACT that NO HORSE SINCE Secretariat has even "sniffed" his Triple Crown records even with the so-called on-going improvement in track conditions, training, etc! Is he kidding himself or what??? What is extremely amazing about Secretariat is not only does he own the 1.5 mile dirt track World Record by 9 lengths...I repeat...9 lengths but his 1-1/8 mile record was only bested by 1 length, his 1-3/16 mile 1:53 flat Preakness was only bested by 3 lengths (Riva Ridge), his 1 mile Gotham was only bested by 5 lengths (Dr. Fager), and he "galloped" to 2 unofficial world records 1/8 of a mile AFTER the wire for 1-1/4 miles (1:57.8 to tie Spectacular Bid), and 1-5/8 miles (2:37.4 to break Swaps world record by 4 lengths!). Incredibly, Secretariat's times over 6 different distances either stake a claim at world records or are within 1, 3, and 5 lengths of additional world records. Add in the fact he is the SOLE horse EVER to be documented as accelerating an entire race from start to finish over 1-1/4 miles/10 furlongs (Kentucky Derby)!!! I want to see another horse boast a myriad of world class speed figures between 1 and 1-5/8 miles BEFORE or AFTER Secretariat????????
Added 11 years ago by bigred, 12 points
Yes I had been saying this for years. Record while important is insufficient in deciding an answer to this question. If record by itself is sufficient, then Kincem who had an incredible career in the 1870s and achieved a true singularity, something that most likely will never be repeated (how can 54 straight wins ever be repeated?), would have to be ranked above all others. The great filly's achievement would certainly rank above all others, but this still cannot answer the question of whether or not she would defeat all others since her era. Many other variables are involved, the most important being genetics. Did the breed get better as time progressed, and this independent of improvements in track design, surface and technology? I would argue yes, peaking, at least in the U.S., around the mid 20th century. Studies have demonstrated this. This is why I rank Secretariat ahead of most if not all others before him or since (at least in the U.S.). When those like racing historian and writer for Blood Horse Ed Bowen dismiss Secretariat, it is interesting they rarely include genetics in their arguments Instead they cite changes in technology (shoes) and track speed as the major variables. Certain European stallions were imported into the states just before, during and after the second World War which boosted the American stock into international standards, probably surpassing them. Horses got faster and were able to maintain speed over longer distances. Secretariat surpassed the pinnacle of this trend. Other horses also achieved greatness at about this time. Changes in track speed and technology cannot account for all the change seen in performance over time. Competition is far stronger than what is was 70 to 100 years ago. rac
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
Superb analogy! Let's take it one step further and use boxing as an example. I have never seen a sophisticated list of "the greatest boxers ever" with Rocky Marciano and his 49-0 record as the #1 all-time boxer. Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson (pound for pound, of course) ALWAYS rate higher and both of them lost several matches. Simply stated, they were superior boxers, maintaining skillsets beyond Marciano's capabilities which takes nothing away from the great Marciano. Same in horse racing because Secretariat possessed an unparalleled mix of "speed" and "stamina" above and beyond all the rest and his supernatural-like performances prove it!
Added 11 years ago by bigred, 13 points
If you hold that going undefeated is the sole (or even major) criterion for comparing racehorses then you have to acknowledge that Kincsem (54 – 54-0-0) was 3.8 times a better horse than Frankel (14 – 14-0-0) and that Frankel wasn’t quite as good as Peppers Pride (19 – 19-0-0). Which is absurd, because the underlying proposition is absurd and is postulated only by neophytes, the sort of vulgar idolaters that Frankel and Black Caviar seem to have beckoned forth from under their rocks.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 54 points
Well said! Your comment is evocative of Charles Hatton's famous assessment of Secretariat: "His only point of reference is himself."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
I saw Frankel race......blew my mind. However.....Secretariat was on another level, a phenomenon, the best
Added 11 years ago by guest, 34 points
I like Frankel but anyone sugesting he's as good as Secretariat is pulling your leg.The only horse that can be compared is MOW.Some say he's better.In my view,the best Euro horse was Nijinsky.Seabird was a beautiful horse but not a TC winner.The horse must be a TC winner..failing that,the horse could be considered the greatest if he held very fast times over multiple distance proving sprint and stamina.If the horse doesnt hold either the TC or the times,then its a bit rich to place him above those that do.Secretariat holds both accolades..the TC and the record times.You cant argue with that.Being unbeaten is good but not a big factor overall.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 34 points
Im english and I think Frankel was a great horse but Secretariat was a phenomenon. His record speaks for itself and its not about how many you win, its the manner of winning and and WHO you beat. Secretariat for me, hands down.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 40 points
Also, you mention underfeated. How many horses go underfeated? Frankel & Ribot, yes. But incredible horses such as Sea Bird II, MOW, Nijinsky, Citation, Dr. Fager, Mill Reef etc. all lost races for different reasons. Being underfeated doesn't make you the best...too many factors/variables. Secertariat's supernatural status is the result of his World-Class performances/times/fractions bewteen 8 & 12 furlongs. God, the horse even set world-records "pulling up" 1/1 of a mile AFTER THE WIRE at 10 & 13 furlongs!!! How many horses can you honestly say were world-class "sprinters" & "stayers"??? The answer is you can count them on a single hand w/Secertariat at the head of the class!!!
Added 11 years ago by bigred, 44 points
What has Frankel re-written??? (1) NEVER raced more than 10.5 furlongs, dodging Europe's most prestigious races (ARC, Epsom, English TC Races); (2) His 8 furlong times are mediocre at best, if not sub-par; (3) It took him 4+ years to run more than 8 furlongs??? (4) ran 14 races in 3+ years - talk about ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE & cherry picking your races; (5) If you know anything which you obviously DON'T, Secretariat lost 4 races (he was disqualified in one after finishing 1st) of which 2 he was ill and another when he didn't train for 2+ weeks!!! (His only legitamate loss was his maiden race). So spare me your nonsense because If Frankel even "sneezed", Cecil would have kept him in the barn for 3 months!!! At 9 furlongs or better Secertariat would have BURIED Frankel & SEC's world-class times at those distances prove it!!!
Added 11 years ago by bigred, 39 points
Completely defunct list already, Frankel has rewritten it (all move one place down). Top ten in the list should all be unbeaten anyway-these are supposed to be the best horses ever!! As for including horses with a less than 80% win record (Secretariat etc) -laughable.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -64 points
hes a bad ass
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
The vet who did Secretariat's autopsy said he had never seen a heart so perfect and so strong.This explains how he ran so powerfully.The Belmont exhibition was jaw-dropping but I think the move on the first turn of the Preakness was his best.Ive never ever seen a horse move like that.Whilst there have many other good horses,I have never seen a horse as good as Secretariat and Ive been following racing for 50 years now.I just wish Id seen him race but I never did.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
Secretariat was the greatest horse of all time by quite some margin.ALL HIS TC RECORD WINNING TIMES ARE INTACT 40 YEARS ON!
MOW second,Ribot 3rd,The Bid four,Kelso five..Seabird would make the top ten although he left nothing for posterity,no TC,no great times etc.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 12 points
Forego had a heck of a career. He was very popular in the New York racing scene; the horse was of that great 1970 crop that produced so many winners and hall of famers: Dahlia,Mr. Prospector (maybe the finest sire of the last 40 years or so), Secretariat, Forego, Ancient Title, Desert Vixen and the list goes on. The one forgotten is Sham. He equaled track records and broke them during his Triple run. Yes, he broke down in the Belmont but that hardly overshadows his previous performances. One bad race does not make a bad horse. Before the Kentucky Derby he lost twice (the '73 season), both due to bad jockey decisions. He should have been undefeated en route to Kentucky. In the KD, he finished 8 and 1/2 lengths ahead of Forego. Yes, Forego was young and getting his legs, but 8.5 lengths would be a very difficult margin to close, even with more growth and maturity. Don't forget, Sham was also growing and maturing. Based on that race when both Forego and Sham were all out, this is why i believe Forego would have had a hard time catching Sham if the latter had continued his career. Unfortunately, Sham never had a chance to rebound and prove himself for he was suddenly retired and sent to stud. The stallion deal was to good to refuse, near 3 million dollars at Spendthrift, and that for a horse that lost his last 4 races.....Still, all the respect for Forego, probably the first or second best gelding America ever produced, the other contender being Kelso. I think Forego was far better than Exterminator, and any of the others. He was a big horse and could carry a load....His '76 Marlboro was a masterpiece.....Red1
Added 11 years ago by guest, 6 points
Secretariat set records in all three Triple Crown races. Three classic grade one stakes in five weeks and records in every one. Those records have stood for 39 years now. As a three year old, he bested great older horses, also setting course or world records. Victories on dirt, turf and mud. Horse of the Year as a two year old. Yes, he did lose (i.e., got second in) some races, but that was probably a result of his fame and appeal. By that I mean that if there had not been so much anticipation of (and perhaps pressure for) his appearance in each race, it may have been easier to scratch if there was any uncertainty about whether he was at his best that day. I don't mean to imply that any of his connections knowingly put him at risk, rather that there may have been a tacit understanding that made those who knew him best reticent to volunteer uncertainties. At any rate, Secretariat had 21 races in two seasons. Ribot was a great undefeated horse, but raced only 16 times in three seasons. Sea Bird and Shergar each raced 8 times, fewer races in their careers than Secretariat raced as a two year old. Man O' War and Kelso were great horses, no doubt, and had to carry amounts of weight that Secretariat didn't. However, as many have pointed out, Secretariat's weight was significantly greater than those horses', and any of you who run know that that does make a difference, even if it is "in shape" weight. We don't see anabolic types winning a marathon! To me, it's the totality of the careers. Secretariat had brilliant speed and amazing endurance. He won at many distances, on many different tracks, surfaces and conditions, against older champions and great horses from his own age group. It is really too bad for us all that he didn't race as a four year old. There have been other great horses in the U.S. and abroad that have thrilled us with their performances, but for me, Secretariat will always be number one.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 9 points
Dear red1:
In 57 starts, Forego had 34 wins, 9 seconds and 7 thirds (50 races in the money). He registered 24 stakes victories including 14 Grade 1 wins. Just slightly better than Sham.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 6 points
The next time you watch the Belmont Stakes take the winners time and subtract 2:24 from it. Multiply that number by 5. This will tell you how many lengths Secretariat would have beaten the winner by. Citation - 21 lengths; Seattle Slew - 28 etc.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 12 points
Secretariat LOST 5 races out of 21 starts. Hardly the record of the greatest horse of all-time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -23 points
Sec over Forego without a doubt...Forego would have had trouble with Sham...red1
Added 11 years ago by guest, -9 points
Saw Secretariat win the Belmont. Unbelievable horse. Forego should be much higher than 18th. Sec vs Forego as 4 year olds 1 1/4 mile at Belmont. Question: Who do you like?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 8 points
Over hyped and over rated!
Added 12 years ago by guest, -26 points
If anyone has ANY doubts about Secretariat's ability to run lightning fast 1 mile or less fractions consider that he once was clocked at 32-2/5 seconds for a 3 furlong workout for an unfathomable average of 10-4/5 seconds per furlong! SEC also consistently ran 57 to 58 second 5 furlong workouts, including a workout where he "galluped" out an additional 6th furlong in 1:08-4/5 seconds. His incredible 1:33-2/5 second mile in the Gotham stakes was an additional barometer of his ability to exhibit sprinter speed. Bottom line is Secretariat was BOTH a "sprinter" and "stayer" justifying his world-class stature.
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 6 points
Especially in todays market. The good horses are sent off to stud as soon as possible. I dont have the facts or figues but it looks as if the best 3 year olds are gone before they reach 4 years . Curlin, a great athlete, was one of the very few that continued for an additional season. Money runs the industry plus a possible lack of durability in the modern specimen. I think owners want them sold to the breeders before anything happens.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
I agree with you that Sec needed an extra season to achieve his full potential. He probably would have held more records. I think a lot of good horses retire too soon to get the chance to achieve their full potential.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
There may be some truth to what you say...ManOWar descendents have done very well through the first mile, Fager, Swaps, etc....Princiquillo progeny, Secretariat, et al...have done well through the longer distances, although Kelso, a descendent of ManOWar, was an exception for he did very well through the longer distances. Unfortunately, Sec needed an extra season to be tested at the shorter distances and he didnt have that luxury. In that so called list of top 100 thoroughbreds, I thought Swaps had been severely underrated, he should have been somewhere in the top 12, probably top 9. The great jockey Eddie Arcero who rode Nashua once commented that Swaps career had been wasted by poor management, we never really saw his best.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
I think Secretariat was one of the greatest racehorses of all times and maybe the best at at over 12 furlongs but I think Swaps is better. He set world records from a mile to 1 5/8 miles. Seems that Swaps is more versatile. Sec would probably beat him at a mile and half and over but couldn't have ran with him at 1 mile or under. None of them have any business on the track with Dr. Fager at a mile or less. Also, I never liked how Secretariat fans all ways make excuses for his losses. Almost every great racehorse that lost was sick or had an injury they didn't report. I call BS on that. Sham riped his front teeth out coming out of the gate. Had it not been for that maybe he would have won the Derby. His Belmont time was amazing and his Derby time was great but still almost 2 seconds off a world record and not much faster than Northern Dancers (ND wasn't even 3 years until the end of May)
Added 12 years ago by guest, -13 points
Nice analysis. I also think he could have trimmed anywhere from 1 to 3 seconds off of Kelso's records at 2 miles, which is extraordinary at such a long distance. But this was an extraordinary horse. In that paper which I referenced earlier, there is a scale of heart mass to body mass which the avereage horse scores at about 110, Sec at about 55 to 60. The lower the figure the better, that is the horse will experience less fatigue over distance. The great Phar Lap scored at about 85 and he set records at long distances, even while carrying large imposts. So the data seems to suggest, in fact strongly suggests that Sec was a very special specimen that could have set records all the way through at least 2 miles. The races he lost in 1973 were all lost OFF THE TRACK, BEFORE THE RACE, not on the track, and that includes Prove Out. rac
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Secretariat ran in the 1973 Preakness at 37.83mph, still a world record for 9.5 furlongs although two horses have matched or betterred it in the Jockey over 10 furlongs.
Frankel`s best speed in a major race on turf was 37 mph in the 2011 2000 Guineas, although the next year he achieved almost the same speed over 10 furlongs at York.
The fastest time over 2 miles in a major race was set by Rain Lover in Melbourne in 1968, at 36.16 mph just beating Kelso`s speed in the two mile Jockey of 1964. Rain Lover was a descendant of Ribot and recorded a faster time than Secretariat`s own offspring Kingston Rule at Melbourne,
Secretariat`s 37.5 mph average speed in the 1.5 mile Belmont suggests that he would have betterred the times of all modern horses over two miles also.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
Frankel would easily beat any horse past or present but secreteriat was no nag and would. Put up a good show my friend NOW SIT DOWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 12 years ago by guest, -35 points
Frankel would have pulverized Secretariat over a mile. Secretariat that overrated, hyped -up nag.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -45 points
I just came across a paper forecasting Secretariat's performance level in the Jockey Club Gold Cup when it was set at 2 miles.....In that examination, good data is used to show that Sec could easily have set a new record in that race, easily breaking Kelso's records....I think if Secretariat ManoWar is googled, the paper is called Secretariat and ManoWar Revisited.... a new paper is published there which also talks about Secreatiats heart to body mass ratio, something not seen in other places.....Secretariat is most likely the finest horse this country ever produced....the facts demonstrate this.....
Added 12 years ago by guest, 7 points
The only thing that Frankel would be even associated to Secretariat is Frankel would be Secretariats pony horse or Secretariats rabbit horse. Why? because Frankel is vastly overrated by his own Brit company Timeform
Added 12 years ago by guest, 18 points
Frankel - no question far better than ANY horse previously
Added 12 years ago by guest, -37 points
Secretariat was truly great on his day. However he lost almost one quarter of his races, so I'm afraid that means he can't be considered as the best of all time IMHO.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -37 points
Difficult to really asses this hirse a sthe fottage shows an incredible performance where he killed his oposisition but much of this was becasuse of Jockey error; they should never have let him get that far away.
Added 12 years ago by Bill Lambert, -7 points
Kelso wasnt oversized...he stood 16 hands with a stride that barely reached 24 ft; I got this data from hatten ...Ridan was a much larger animal who could not beat Kelso...Forego was oversized and carried less of a percent of his weight than Kelso.......maybe Secreatiat can carry 132 lbs or so but i am talking about 138 or more.... Im talking about 12% or more, that which Mow and Kelso did...Mow was a bigger than avereage animal but he was no 17 hands, 1220 as forego was....Secretariat had a terrific conformation, very muscular animal and in my OPINION based on more OBJECTIVE modeling, MAY HAVE BEEN the best specimen this country ever produced at the classic distances on flat tracks, and maybe even at 16 furlongs where my work predicts a finishing time near 197 seconds, still we can never be sure ...Prove Out had a prediction time at 16 furs much better than he was able to accomplish, so we can never be sure about anything in this business....regards.....in the meantime, MOW is moving up the ladder....
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
I find it intereting that you bring up the excessive weights for MOW, Kelso, and Forego who were all oversized beasts. It is no coincidence that all 3 of these horses handled large handicaps with their massive anatomical structures the primary reason for easily adapting to extra weight. That is exactly my point with regard to Secretariat. Like these 3 legends, SEC's enormous conformation would have likewise easily handled any extra weight at 4...5....and so on. Regards!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 3 points
FYI.... Red...add to that Kelso who barely touched 16 hands and weighed probably less than 1100 pounds...yet that boy set all kinds of records at long distances carrying imposts at 12% more or less.....MOW massed in at 1150 and carried imposts at 12%. The point is that there probably is not a clear relationship between Mass and impost....The horse can or the horse cant do it and that is all there is to it.....And as far as the 'forum', opinions are like navels, everyone has one....some are more experienced than others, yes but tell that to the 'expert' who put sec in the 14 spot on the listing....I like numbers, ratios, and emperical models more than opinions, even professional opinions.....Beyer himself once quipped that that head to head between Affimed and Alyadar in the Belmont may have looked spectacular, but it wasnt.....Beyer didnt think much of it and why? Because he could score it, with a model, numbers, something more objective.....Once again, I have scored Secs potential at two miles and it looks spectacular, but seeing is believing......sec
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
FYI, Foregoweighed well over 1200 pounds and the best he could carry was about 11% of his weight. Take 11% of Secs weight what do you get? And Forego raced well into his 7 year, won a ton of titles defeating the best of his 4-7 years........I guess Forego was absolutely inferior......sec
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
FYI, you continue to use the word "speculation" with regard to Secretariat? Bottom line is THIS ENTIRE FORUM as well as ANY top 10 race horse list is based on sheer specuation! Also, you CANNOT use Citation or virtually any other horse to prove your point that "you simply don't know if Secretariat could have carried extra weight". Reason being NONE of these horses were 1,100 - 1,150 lbs. Secretariat was ALREADY dealing with an extra 100 - 150 lbs (10% to 15% of extra weight) , and an extra 6 - 10 would NOT have mattered at all at the age of 4!!! Lucien Lauren, Ron Turcotte, Andy Beyer, Charles Hatton (premier US racing analyst), Kent Hollingsworth (senior US trainer), and Eddie Arcaro (Citation jockey who also claimed SEC was the greatest horse ever!) all stated Secretariat was getting "better" when he retired. Also, all of the aforementioned individuals clearly indicated that Turcotte had never gotten to the bottom of Secretariat. Assuming he was healthy, SEC would have absolutely crushed his competion at 4 years old, and would have set many more records. We can only base our assumptions on the data we have, justifying why SEC's supernatural like performances place him at the top of many historians lists. Regards!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 6 points
big red, i said he faced and defeated good horses, just not all of them: Dahlia and he needed a rematch with Prove Out. I am not saying they ducked Prove Out in the Cup. They had to give Riva a chance at that win. Still we are left with questions unanswered....also, you didnt address the euro horses..they are toughened by running tougher courses....i think i read somewhere that lucien lauren said it would take 6 months to train sec to run there...just to get the horse in form for the arc de triumph would take several months of running and training. Its all speculation on how the horse could have handled all of that....yes, he was anatomically a terrific specimen with an alleged 22 lb heart but dont forget Sham had a huge heart as well and look at what happened to him in the Belmont. Its not just heart, there are other factors as well that must be present. Its all speculation.....If you want to see how well Secretariat might have done at 2 miles, i am putting a paper together on the subject, based on probability theory. I discovered that Prove Out should have ran the 2 mile distance much faster than he did, at least a second faster. He was already showing signs of decay in his form which preempted his best output. Thats what I mean when I say its all speculation........there is no substitute for the real thing, for actually running the race and secretariat is no exception....I found that Sec's predicted time at 2 miles was record setting, by as much as 2 seconds, but once again just speculation....Nevertheless, Sec is a candidate for the best of the best, along with a few others, that is the best we can do, just name candidates.....By the way Citation had trouble carrying weight, that despite his record setting 3 year old season. Yea he dad bad ankles, but still he never won carrying more than 129 pounds...We simply dont know what they will do until they do it.......sec
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
FYI, I cannot argue with the previous post that there are most likey 4 - 6 horses that could stake a claim to being the greatest horse ever such as MOW, Secretariat, Sea Bird II, etc. Certainly, when you narrow it down to a handful of these absolute superior thoroughbreds, nominating a "no-contest" winner is virtually impossible. Truly, the top tier of horses could beat each other on any given day.
Added 12 years ago by bigred, -4 points
The anatomical difference between a 3 and 4 yr-old horse is synonymous to a 15 and 21 year old male, thus the reason for handicaps. However, even as a 2/3 year-old, Secretariat had to endure extra weight EVERY time he raced! SEC's weight ranged from 1,100 to 1,150 lbs which is easily 100 - 150 lbs heavier than the standard 1,000 lb. horse. Do you honestly think as a 4 year old, SEC couldn't have handled and extra 6 - 10 lbs? SEC was a solid mass of pure muscle; a freight train with PERFECT conformation. NEXT: It is true ProveOut beat SEC at the Woodward by approx. 4 lengths, but SEC had ZERO training for nearly 2 wks and was rushed into the race at the 11th hour because Riva Ridge could not run in the mud. SEC still ran a stellar 2:26-3/5 time IN THE MUD WITHOUT TRAINING which would best nearly ANY horse on the planet except for the 4 year-old Prove Out who ran the race of his life that day (2:25-4/5). If SEC had trained properly, most experts agree he could have easily made up 1 to 1.5 seconds, but it was obvious he tired in the stretch. You quoted SEC didn’t beat good horses? How about Sham (who would have been a TC winner WITHOUT SEC), 5 yr-old Canadian Champion Kennedy Road (SEC beat him 2x), 4 yr-old premier North American champion turf horse TenTam, 4 year old Kentucky Derby & Belmont Champion Riva Ridge, 3 year-old Forego, and 6 year-old champion Couger II…all crushed by SEC who was only 3! Do you really think a beast of a horse like SEC with a 22lb. heart would not have been able to handle 2 miles? Secretariat “galloped” 1/8 of a mile past the wire in the Belmont Stakes to an unofficial world record for 1-5/8 miles, besting the legendary SWAPS record by 3/5 of a second....GALLUPED….after still sprinting the final 2 furlongs. Next time you decide to make outlandish statements, please do your homework first!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 4 points
the best we can do is list candidates, candidates for first, second, and so forth......it is not possible to know with any certainty the 'best' of the best....Secretariat would certainly, and i mean certainly , be a top tier candidate along with 4, 5, or maybe 6 others.......a candidate for the best of the best.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Kudos and thanks to the previous poster. Brilliantly put!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 9 points
It just amazes me how ANYONE can possibly state that Secretariat was "hyped up far beyond his ability"??? Think about this....ONE HORSE...I repeat ONE HORSE...owns ALL 3 North American TC racing records. That covers over 140 years, 420+ races and some 4,500 horses!!! The distances have remained basically the same, and considering the technical strides in training/conditioning and track surface enhancements the past half century, it is virtually unfathomable to think that ALL 3 records could continue to stand the test of time. Secretariat ran on dirt, in the rain slopped mud, and both dry/slick turf while CRUSHING 4, 5 and 6 year-old champion horses as a 3 year old. He set two unofficial world records for 1-1/4 and 1-5/8 mile distances "galluping" 1/8 of a mile AFTER the wire, and his performance in the Belmont Stakes ranks as the greatest single performance in racing history with NO horse ever coming within 9 lengths of his 1-1/2 mile dirt time. His 4 losses were compromised by 2 illnesses where he had no business racing and another loss with ZERO training for a 1-1/2 mile race wherby he still posted a super 2:26 in change time IN THE MUD!!! The fact remains, it is NOT the overall record that determines eternal thoroughbred status but the supernatural achievments achieved in their most significant wins/races. Keep in mind there are horses with stellar records that really never beat any superior horses (if you race against a turtle you will win 100% of the time!), but you can NEVER discount world-class performances that unquestionably surpass all those who have come before and after. It is in this aspect that Secretariat knows NO PEERS. Simply stated, SEC did things on a race track that immensely stretched the limits of the standard thoroughbred!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 34 points
Greatest of all time... this horse was money!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 9 points
Out of all the other horses I've seen race Secretariat is THE BEST.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 8 points
If Sec lived up to the potential his performance norms indicated, this horse was not hyped...I ran the numbers on Sec and his potential at the Jockey Club Gold Cup distance of two miles, the way it was ran in 1973. I found that his loss to Prove Out in the Woodward was in fact an aberration, clearly a sub-performance. On removing that race from his performance line, the standard errors declined indicating that race was something of an outlier. The horse entered that race without training, and still he ran its second fastest time. Secs potential at two miles, based on his actual performances through 1.5 miles, is apparently off the charts, outdoing Kelso and Citation by large margins. No, if Sec lived up to his potential, this horse was anything but hyped......at least in American flat racing.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Great horse, but hyped far beyond his ability. There have been better horses than Secretariat.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -42 points
I believe that the "tracks are faster now" argument is often applied incorrectly, when people argue that Man O' War's times actually surpass Secretariat's times. What has changed dramatically since MOW's time is the composition related to drainage. That means that overall tracks are faster now, but a fast track in 1920 is still comparable to a fast track in 1973, or 2012. A "heavy" or "cuppy" track, or even a "good" track in 1920 would, indeed, be slower than more contemporary tracks with similar designations. Most of MOW's races were run on a "fast" track. There are also race charts that indicate that in at least one of his races, MOW was "hard ridden." That race was the Dwyer Stakes, vs. John P. Grier, under 126 lbs. on a fast track. No excessive weight and a fast track and "hard ridden." And, indeed, he had very fast early fractions (:46 half, 1:09.4 @ 6F), but finished 9F in a somewhat tepid 1:49.1, under a "hard ride." Well, maybe he wasn't feeling great himself that day, but a horse who is never asked to work very hard, in general, has a much better post-race recovery, and we don't really know how well he would do, how sound he would stay (or how healthy) if he gave it his all every time. I think Man O' War was a great horse for his time, and a very good, possibly great horse for any time, but I personally believe that Secretariat won the genetic lottery, and I believe his accomplishments exceeded those of MOW. I also think the "superior nutrition" argument is very much overstated. Secretariat got oats, alfalfa hay, and frequent carrots and apples when he was racing. Nothing more exotic. I can't believe that 1973 oats were that much different from 1920 oats!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
OOoops! I meant to say that Prove Out's best was nearly two seconds slower than Secretariat's best!
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
Those who have said Prove Out was an average horse have not checked his bloodlines. His sire was the prepotent Graustark, son of Ribot, and his dam, Equal Venture, was a full sister to Triple Crown winner Assault. However, that Woodward was Prove Out on his best day, and he was still over two seconds slower than Secretariat on his best day. And though Secretariat appeared in races on off days for him for whatever reasons, on his best days, in my opinion, nobody could or will touch him! I'm not sure if anyone here has mentioned Mill Reef, but it is interesting to note that that great champion was also a product of the Nasrullah (grandsire) Princequillo (damsire) cross, as was Secretariat.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
with his great distance and speed he would win pretty easy... and his jocky didn't even have to usse his whip, even during his famous 31 lengths belmont race..i mean, just imagine all the famous other horses like ice cream :
, Man O'War, Citation, Phar Lap, Native Dancer, Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew and Dr Fager
ok, secretariat would have been the whip cream to the ice cream
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
Apparently my previous piece didn't post so here it is again. Apologists of Mano don't take into account the role of genetics over time. This dimension accounts for differences in finishing times over generations. They cite shoes, tracks, weight, 'held in check', etc..., all non-heritable factors and in the year he ran. My work at "Sec and Mano Revisited', took these into account along with heritable factors over generations and found Sec ahead by 1.2 to 1.8 seconds at 12 furlongs (Mano was allowed to run in the Lawrence-Dorothy Ours). What I discovered was that Mano was impossibly GREAT, converting his times to modern figures would put his 12 furlong runs in the low 2:25 range which is amazing, he wasn't even giving his best. Still Sec, who wasn't asked, was many fractions ahead which demonstrates his greatness. What is amazing is that Mano was bred in 1920 in a foal count of 1600+. Only Sec, Count Fleet, and Mano ran like this, my top three American Horses, (along with Kelso below). sec
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
I must add one more to the list, Kelso. Though I could not in my work test his performances because the horse did not run the modeled races, his 2 mile runs were sensational. This horse, which apparently just reached 16 hands with a stride anywhere from 23 to 25 ft at most, ran the finest long distance Gold Cup performances on more than one occasion setting records that will not be broken. This horse had heart both figuratively and literally and so must be included along with the three previously mentioned, Sec, Count Fleet, and Mano. It is ashamed this horse, a descendent of Manowar, was gelded. He had two careers, the second as a show jumper demonstrating high athletic ability. sec
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Secretariat was the best equine athlete because he was a freak of nature, with a heart weighing I believe 18 pounds, and being 2 1/2 times the size of a normal horse heart, no wonder he could run like a machine. Great or not, he's never been my favorite, but I do respect him as a legend that will probably never be matched.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Typical american comment. Heres another one you guys often pull "we live in the best country in the world"
and even calling it " The World Series".. thats just crap.
america is not the whole world
that is the kind of attitude that makes the whole world not like you
Added 12 years ago by guest, -64 points
Read his record. He was THE BEST of all time - no ifs or buts. And now the Maryland Racing Commission has officially adjusted his Preakness time to 1:53; thus he set race records in each of the Triple Crown races. Incomparable!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 65 points
Not only did Secretariat WIN the TC, he won each race in record times that still hold. He won the Derby fully two seconds faster than this year's winner, I'll Have Another; we won't even discuss the Belmont (31 lengths!?), and there is an ongoing battle over a timer error in the Preakness. Win the TC and claim those record times and you're my #1 horse.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 20 points
I know this seems kind of petty, but I wish the connections of Secretariat had been able to come up with an original nickname for him, as it confuses things with the original Big Red, Man o' War. I'm not arguing merit here, just a thing about the nickname. :-)
Added 12 years ago by Emerald01, -1 points
Just a note: Man o' War was not scratched from the Kentucky Derby. he was never entered in the race.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Phar lap is not extremely overrated!!
Added 12 years ago by guest, -15 points
Secretariat is the best horse in the world because he's the only one who had Sham as a rival. Defeating Sham thrice in the Triple Crown is arguably the greatest sport accomplishment ever.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Secretariat IS the best without a doubt, While Sea Bird II only ran 8 and lost 1 Secretariat ran about 20 and lost 3. Then he had perfect comformation, great fun- loving personality, and ran the Kentucky faster than in everyhalf mile. So to all of you people Secretariat is the best. NO ARGUMENT.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 7 points
Phar Lap also won the 1931 1400m (7f) Group 1 Futurity Stks on a very heavy track against a top class sprinter/miler field carrying 147 pounds or 10 stone 3 as a 4yo. That weight equates to roughly 18 pounds OVER weight for age
Added 12 years ago by guest, -12 points
Sec carried more weight at 2 and 3YO than Phar Lap. Ran in arguably the most competitive decade in American horse racing history. Set 10 records including 2 world records without exertion. Broke track records in training on MUD. Defeated older, champion, horses on dirt and turf. Simply the best of all time. Again, OPhar Lap extremely overrated.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 16 points
Phar Lap did not carry massive weights. He was significantly over scale, for his age, a mere 3 times. Carried paltry weights at 2 and 3YO. Ran on the easier turf surface. Did NOT race against America's best. Very slow time, considering he was 5YO and carrying only 129 at the Agua. very overrated.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 6 points
yeh he was amazing !!! he died of a foot infection/disease. Well he was put to sleep wen the pain became 2 hard 2 bear!! R.I.P Secretariat xx
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Even the superhorse Phar Lap cant compare to Secretariat...shows you just how amazing Big Red was.I think Man O War is the only comparable horse and maybe the Bid or Europes wonder horse Seabird.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 8 points
Phar Lap. A class above all others. Won Group 1's 1400m - 3200 m. Carried Massive weights that would be banned today.. Smashed America's best with a split hoof while breaking track record, and had never raced on dirt before. Ran againt all the best at age , open classes, any track. Secretariat did not achieve anything like this.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -17 points
we have a great grandaughter of secretariat! She's with no doubt has the best conformation of all our horses and we have a warmblood!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Guys you keep mentioning times but that is irrelevant because European horses especially in France go a relatively sedate pace for the first part of the race and the race really only takes place in the final two furlongs where as in the States horses tend to run from the off
Added 12 years ago by guest, -15 points
Secretariat won 16 races, finished 1st a 17th time but was disqualified and placed 2nd, had 2 second place finishes, 1 third place finish and was out of the money only once when he finished fourth in his first race after being "mauled" out of the starting gate by a horse named Quebec. Note, he should have been scracted in two of his losses due to illness. Where did you get your information from - a bubble gum machine???
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 5 points
You know what, I was wrong.....and I'll admit when I am.
Sec had 21 starts of which he placed 16 times and won the race outright 3. 16 places is great....although I would have liked to have seen more than 3 wins.....
Added 12 years ago by guest, -37 points
Come on, Sec only started 16 races and won 3, I don't care how fast he was.....he ONLY WON 3 races.....let's see, 3/16 = 18.75 pct. In my book that shows exactly why this horse is overrated.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -53 points
Omaha better than Secretariat or Man O'War or Seabird?Come on,thats just silly.I wish people would really think before they vote.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 13 points
FYI, the PREMIER thoroughbred speed analyst Andrew Beyer did a workup of Secretariat's stats in 2011 using an updated methodology. The results showed an absolutely incomprehensible 139 rating!!!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 14 points
If you are looking for amazing "sectional" times, look no further than SEC's 23 second (some analysts actually think it was 22-4/5 seconds!) LAST QUATER MILE in the 1-1/4 mile Kentucky Derby to steal the win from Sham. What horse runs a final quater mile in a 1-1/4 mile race in 23 or 22-4/5 seconds, with EACH QUARTER FASTER THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE!!! My friend, you are also SO RIGHT in speaking to SEC's unfathomable burst of speed to go from last to first in the Preakness "3 WIDE" on an extremely sharp Pimilco turn since the track is only 1 mile! NO HORSE EVER could have possibly ran that fast so early in the race andthen "toyed" with Sham the last 1/4 - 1/8 mile being hand ridden! That is why SEC is the greatest horse ever...because he did things on a race track NO OTHER HORSE could accomplish!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 9 points
I see what youre getting at.A champion horse just does enough to break from the pack and get the win regardless of time.Its a valid point.But this is what Sec did!Amazingly,he was never pushed and never felt the whip!In his greatest race,he was still accelerating.There was more in the tank and still his times are unmatched.Thats why he was the greatest ever!If Belmont doesnt convince you.look again at his Preakness.Came from right at the back,surged to the front in the space of 20 seconds and held it to the finish!A move that early would have finished lessermortals by the 1 mile mark.Hows that for sectional time?
Added 12 years ago by guest, 5 points
Secretariat holds 1 world record and its on dirt, a surface the MAJORITY of the world don't race on !! Do you think thats the reason it still stands ? Of course it is !! Track records mean NOTHING ! Check the lists of horses who hold track records anywhere and you'll find almost all of them were horses nobody even remembers. A track like Royal Ascot in England, for example, where many big races are run each year, has an uphill run in and therefore the times cannot be compared with most other tracks. A track like Moonee Valley in Australia, where they run the Cox Plate, is a tight turning track and its turf surface is strathayr. This is not conductive to running fast times. Does this mean Frankel, who's currently rated the world's best racehorse, is no good as he's not running fast time at Royal Ascot relative to the world record over the corresponding distance ? Was Sunline, who won in 3 countries, a hack because her 2 Cox Plate winning times were not close to the world record ? Of course not. Times should never be used as an indicator as to the merits of a horses greatness or for that matter when doing the form for the races this weekend. They are a useful indicator in sprint races but as the distances increase times become more irrelevant. Sectional time relative to race tempo is far more important than overall time. I concede times are much more important in the US as most of your tracks are very similar but to the majority of the world they don't mean too much. A champion horse who is a backmarker has no real say in the time it runs if the horses go slow up the front. If the champion horse keeps winning when coming from behind and thus it's finishing sectionals are continually superior, that is the mark of its greatness, more so than the overall times it achieved. Nobody would argue regarding Secretariat being a champion but it's more got to do with the races he won, the opposition he beat, his winning margins and his overall record for most people
Added 12 years ago by guest, -42 points
So what is your point? Just for the record, Secretariat did RUN 2 turf races in his last 2 wins and his FIRST turf performance resulted in a STILL STANDING 1-1/2 mile track record time of 2:24-4/5 which covers over 140 years! Also, 9 of the official 10 distance records between 1 and 2 miles were recorded on TURF justifying that fast DIRT times are more dfficult to post. The MAIN POINT is that as a 3-year-old, Secretariat posted SIX...I repeat SIX STILL STANDING world or track records in his 12 races. I want you to sit back and think about that statistic...in HALF of his 12 races, he ran the distance faster than any horse has ever run in 100+ years...NO HORSE COMES EVEN CLOSE TO SUCH A FEAT!!! Furthermore, in his last 3 wins as a 3-year old, he absolutely CRUSHED 4, 5 and 6 year-old CHAMPION race horses by 4 - 10 lengths!
I certainly am NOT blind to the fact that the European tracks reflect a significant inconsistency in their surfaces and that has to be taken into account, making the comparison between North American and European/Australian/etc. horses a near impossible task. However, in ANY sport, ratings are typically based on STATISTICAL FACTS, and until you or any other genius can come up with a more sophisticated rating scale for ALL world class horses, there can be no more sensible measuring/benchmark tool than the time it takes for a horse to complete his race because we are talking about a "race" for which the winner has posted the fastest time!!!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 20 points
Nobody else in the world races on dirt !! Not going to say he was not a great champion but the majority of the world races on turf so a distance record on dirt means nothing to anybody outside of the US. Just like everything else, Americans seem to think the world starts on the east coast of US and finishes on the west coast of US. In racing it's called Breeders Cup World Championships, in baseball its called World Series, you call the NBA winner the world champion and the US is the only country (besides Canada) where the teams come from. It's really quite hilarious. Distance records have NOTHING to do with how good a horse was, outside of North America. The most important thing is race record. North American racetracks are basically all the same whereas you will find no two racetracks the same anywhere else in the world. I'm suprised an American track has not been set up into lanes like an athletics track. If you want to continually talk about times then why not ? Every horse can run precisely the same distance and there will be no interference from other horses.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -48 points
The 1 1/2 mile dirt is a WORLD RECORD not an American record.Turf is faster anyways.Also he still holds the 3 track records of the premier North American racetracks 40 years on.Thats unprecedented.No European horse has a TR 40 years on.His one weakness as I see it was he tended to give up if blocked.But by far and away the greatest horse that ever lived.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 9 points
His Belmont run was the greatest by any horse of all time.American,Canadian,British,French,you name it.No horse has ever run like that!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 6 points
Secretariat was unquestionally a champion. I find it hard to fathom how many here call him undoubtedly the best ever and easily no. 1 etc. These so called world records are not world records but rather North American records. The only record that counts is a horse's overall record and longevity should also be highly regarded. Almost all of the world races on turf, not dirt. There are many great champions from other parts of the world who raced as 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 yo etc. Champions who raced left and right handed on different shaped tracks etc. Not trying to knock Secretariat but I certainly don't say he was clearly no. 1 either. Probably No. 1 in USA though. Many great horses from Europe and Australia and now Japan but its a very subjective exercise.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -37 points
To the individual who boldly stated that Man o' War would have bested Secretariat 9 out of 10 times I would love to hear your logic. Here is my logic: Secretariat's times at EVERY fraction BOTH horses ran absolutely "blow away" Man o' War! Now I do understand Man o' War carried more weight and the tracks were not as sophisticated, but the time differentials are so vastly lopsided it is obvious that Secretariat would have bested Man o' War "at least" 75% of their hypotehetical matches. You are speaking solely to emotion with your zeal obviously blinding you to the truth!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 12 points
Absolutely incorrect! As a 3 year old, Secretariat "crushed" many 4, 5 & 6 year olds in his last four races by 4 to 10 lengths including Canada's 5 year old horse of the year Kennedy Road (twice SEC blasted Kennedy Road), 4 year-old Riva Ridge who was the prior year's Kentucky Derby/Belmont Champion and still owns the 1-3/16 mile fastest dirt track time, Champion 4 year old TURF horse Tentam who was ranked as the BEST turf horse in North America, and California 6 year-old champion Couger II. These are only a few of the older horses that looked like yearlings next to Secretariat! Regardless, here is the BOTTOM LINE: Secretariat's world class record times prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the aforementioned horses he embarrassed is not even an issue because MANY of his times have not been matched by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. ....year olds! In other words, while SEC DID crush older champion horses, virtually 99.9% of ANY HORSES could not match his record times so what is the difference??? His earth shattering performances would have BESTED ANY HORSE regardless of age with that statement 100% backed up by his world class times!!!!!!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 17 points
Is it true Secretariat NEVER raced out of restricted grade ? How can he be called the greatest when he never raced against all comers but was rather restricted to races of his own age. Champion 3yo but best ever ? Spare me.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -39 points
Secretariats records still stand 38 years later. HOY twice. ran Derby in successive 1/4's faster than the last. Single most dominating performances ever witnessed. Won each TC race in a different and in an astounding manner. no horse comes close.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 10 points
Man O'War would have beaten Secretariat 9 times out of 10.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -38 points
Overall, secretariat has better race times and lengths than sea bird 2 or any other racehorse in history. Every book you read will spin their wishes wherever they want but the numbers speak for themselves. Of all the racehorses in history there is no other racehorse which has leapt out of the pages as secretariat has. It seems that this horse loved to run more than any other, that and likely he had the love infused around him necessary to run so gloriously.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Like Ali - The Greatest
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Secretariat was quite clearly the greatest of all time.Only horse to touch him would be Man O'War or possibly Phar Lap.Seabird was great too but times werent fast enough.His timeform is overblown.Sec definitely first though.No doubts.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
i'm surprised big red is not #1.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Everyone needs to sit back and listen to your selves. Its ridiculous how pissed you guys are about which race horse is better. How about this for a change, numbers never lie and you win some, you lose some. But in the end, it comes down to times, age, and well of course a triple crown. That is that, good by.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -7 points
I've never been to a horse race in my life, nor am I a big fan of the sport. However, I do love sports. Secretariat's romp at the Belmont is easily the finest non-stop 2 1/2 continual minutes in sporting history. Not even Chamberlain's 100 point game compares, as it took him all game. One must remember that on the day of the Belmont, millions of non racing fans from around the world turned on their TV's to see for the 1st time a horse that everybody was talking about. Not only did Secretariat deliver, but he beat the hype from wire to wire. An astonishing display that will be referenced for as long as people talk about horse racing and sport in General. This very well may be the holy grail of sporting records....and it still stands almost 40 years later!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
This is so US centric, you need to break this down into differnt distances and surfaces. to say LAmmtarra wa sthe best because he held the course record for the Derby is ludicrous. Just look at Dancing Brave who came from last to first ( almost at epsom. his tiome for the last two furlongs is regarded as the best and quickest finish to that race and then the ground conditions make or break records. undoubtedly the best horse of recent time is See the Stars, won everything with a turn of pace that has startled all before him. can go from the front or coem out f the pack. I would match him against any. Talking of the greatest race horses of all time there is only one...ARKLE..
Added 13 years ago by guest, -7 points
The experts say Man O'War and Secretariat.Sec has much better times but ran in competitive era with less weight.We can safely say these 2 are the greatest US horses.I like Seabird and Nijinsky for best European.Whos better overrall?Only God knows for sure...but I would say that Sec's Belmont race was the best ever display of power by a horse.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
I think Secretariat was amazing and his Belmont win was incredible. But Man O War won a race by 100 lengths. In fact he retired because no one would race him. I am a Man O War fan but the movie about Secretariat gave me a love and appreciation for him. If Disney would make a movie about Man O War, maybe the Sec fans would appreciate him as well. We saw Sec run. We didn't have the privilege to see Man O War run. So it's not right to compare what you saw to what you didn't.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
AWESOME points & regarding his illness, SEC detractors FORGET that Man o' War was scracthed from the most prestigious race in America (the Kentucky Derby) because he had a virus, while Ruffian was scrathed from a major stakes race in the fall of 1974 due to a low grade fever. Simply put, horses CANNOT run well when they are ill (didyou ever try going to the gym with a virus/fever???), but Penny & Lauren knew they couldn't scratch SEC because of the 25,000+ people who came out to the track to see him run. Many experts clearly state SEC was mishandled and should have never been beaten. One last thought...how many people realize that SEC's quarter mile fractions in the Kentucky Derby were faster than each preceding fraction, a REMARKABLE accomplishment over a 1-1/4 mile race. To steadily increase your speed from start to finish over that distance should be virtually impossible...who does that! SEC was, indeed, the greatest horse who ever graced a racetrack!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 0 points
Secretariat holds the STILL STANDING fastest recorded times in the world on dirt all the way from 1 3/16 to 1 5/8 miles in HISTORY and is just 0.2 seconds off the current 1 1/8 mile world record. He NEVER lost a race that was not caused by ill health (x2), unprepared replacement for other horse in long distance race (x1), severe interference (x1) or unfair disqualification (x1). Excluding these factors, he won his remaining 16 races all by handsome margins of multiple lengths, never a photo finish. Under healthy and fair conditions he would beat ANY horse put against him, not by a nose but by a margin of lengths.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Simply the Best ever. When he died, an autopsy revealed a heart over twice the size of his average competitor.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -4 points
I think that Secretariat is and always will be the greatest racehorse. The only reason he lost the 2 races was the fact that his jockey was just overall bad, and the second time was due to a abscess. If he didn't have that I feel he could have won that race.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -6 points
Great point and ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON THE MARK! I find it interesting that Man o' War was scratched for the Kentucky Derby, thus preventing him from being a TC winner. In fairness to MOW he was most likley "under the weather" and appropriately scratched. Unfortunately, Secretariat was NOT scratched for two of his 3 losses as a 3-year old when he was ill and don't believe for one second Tweedy & Lauren didn't know he was far less than 100%. There was NO WAY Sec was being scratched for the Wood Memormial when his recent $6M investors showed up to the race. Secondly, more than $50,000 jammed Sratoga to see Sec run in the Whitney and fever or not, he was going to run. Turcott "begged" Lauren to scratch him but Lauren refused, saying he would put another jockey on Sec if Turcott refused to ride him. Secretariat was a victim of his superior greatness since his owner and trainer assumed his uncanny ability could overcome even illness and sub-par training (Woodward Stakes).
Added 13 years ago by bigred, -4 points
To all those people who keep citing Secretariat's 3 losses at three...he showed those losses were flukes (abscess, illness with fever, last minute sub on the slop while preparing for a turf race a week later), by killing the field and setting a track or world record after each loss - Derby (still standing TR), Marlboro Cup (WR for 1 1/8), MOW Stakes (TR in first race on grass). Secretariat got a virus in the fall of '73 that would have put most horses out for the season - he was therefore below form after the TC races, but still won major races. SUPER HORSE!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 6 points
Thank you! Finally somebody that knows a bit or two about race horsing. Prove Out was a super and vastly under rated horse. In fact, in most experts eyes, he still reigns as the only horse who legitimately bested Secretariat (Sec's other defeats were related to illness & literally being "mauled" out of the starting gate in his 1st race). True, Sec should have never run in this race because he was training on grass for the Woodward. Regardless, I don't think ANY HORSE could have bested Prove Out that day since his 2:25-4/5 time in the mud was too incredible for even Sec to match! No doubt Secretariat was the greatest horse ever but on that 1973 wet day, Prove Out reigned supreme!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 0 points
There was nothing "very average" about Prove Out. He had a career plagued by injuries and bad handlers. However, after Allen Jerkens got a hold of him and he was in good health, he showed he go run right up there with the all time greats. In the 1973 Woodward, he whipped Secretariat on a sloppy track that Steve Haskins said "wasn't playing fast at all and turned in the 2nd fastest 1 1/2 mile in history at 2:25.8. He gave up 7 pounds to Secretariat in doing so. A few weeks later, he crushed Secretariat's great stablemate, Riva Ridge, in the 2 mile Jockey Club Gold Cup by 33 lengths in 3:20. The only horse ever to run faster at this distance was Kelso in 3:19.2.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Let's just wait until the Arc before you start singing the praises of SYT. I would like to see how he copes with the devastating finishing kick of the Epsom Derby winner Pour Moi, who will be much better suited to the Longchamps track than he was with Epsom.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -12 points
I am the individual who posted the tip regarding So You Think at Royal Ascot but was not counting on diabolical tactics employed by the trainer and an equally diabolical ride by Britains 'No 1' jockey in Ryan Moore which had they not have occured would have had SYT winning the race easily. This lends support to a previous posters comment stating that records of horses are tarnished by factors beyond their control that subsequently bring them undone such as pilot error, interference and farcicly paced races. In saying that the top ten horses listed are pretty spot on however, an Australian horse called Carbine mounts a pretty spectacular argument for inclusion... A record equal to and perhaps superior than Phar Lap and was an entire that subsequently excelled at stud. Bit of Aussie pride here if you couldn't tell.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -24 points
I hope that I did not offend you in any way with my comments, that wasn't my intention. Red Rum's Grand National record as you mentioned in an earlier post will NEVER be equalled let alone beaten. He was without any doubt the most loved racehorse this side of the pond. On the subject of the US. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the United States,in my humble opinion, is the greatest country on the planet, I really do believe that and I feel I am well qualified to say this as I shall be spending my 10th vacation in your great country next week. All the Americans I have met since 1999 have been friendly,helpful and extremely hospitable and I cannot speak highly enough of them. You also have some of the most wonderful scenery on earth. I fell in love with the USA the very first time I visited the country in 1999 and will never take my vacations anywhere else. My best wishes to you,my friend.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
I am prepared to concede that I am not qualified to comment on Red Rum's position as a steeplechaser.I said that it was just my opinion.I do find it bizarre that hes not in the top ten steeplechasers but European racing is very different.HAndicap or not,the horse still has to jump those 40 fences,negotiate the traffic of fallers and unseated horses and time his run to the finish to perfection(jockey).If you Brits say he wasnt one of the best then okay I'll acccept that.He's your horse.Just so you know,Aintree is your most famous race,far more famous to non-UK people than your derby or arc or gold cup.Its watched religiously this side of the pond.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -4 points
I would concur 100 per cent with the last contributor regarding the undeniable greatness of Secretariat, his race record is beyond dispute. Red Rum, as anyone who knows anything about British National Hunt racing will tell you, was most definitely NOT one of the great steeplechasers to have raced in Britain and Ireland. If Secretariat had won the biggest handicap race in the US on three occasions do you think that he would have been regarded the greatest American racehorse ever? No,of course he wouldn't. But that is what the guy who thinks that Red Rum three Grand National wins in a handicap race amounts to. Please,if you don't know what you are talking about it's best to say nothing at all on the subject, with respect.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -4 points
To state Secretariat is overrated is ignorant. Obviously racehorses in different countries run different types of races. That being said, anyone with a brain stem who saw his performances in the 1973 Triple Crown races saw BRILLIANCE on the part of this Athlete. He was, and for many will remain, a national treasure. Has any naysayer in this group 'bested' Sec's time at Belmont? Obviously not. His records speak for themselves. He was a phenomenon, with far better manners & dignity than some of the clowns on this discussion. Case closed.
Added 13 years ago by scgloe1, 8 points
I cant comment further on Red Rum except to say that he did win Aintree 3 times and no other horse will match this.Ever.That is his record like it or not and you can throw all the academia you want at it but the record speaks for itself.Same for Secretariat.His record immediately silences any attempt to take away what is rightly his.We have nothing to fall back on but the record.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
I will just give you one example to prove to you that Red Rum WASN'T the best steeplechaser or even one of the best . In the 1973 Grand National Crisp carried top weight of 12 stone (168 pounds) and Red Rum was set to carry 10stone 4 pounds (144pounds) , Crisp was jumping superbly despite his huge weight and it was only in the last few yards that Red Rum managed to pass Crisp to win by just over a length. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that Crisp would have beaten Red Rum if they were both carrying the same weight. Crisp was a very good chaser but by no means one of the best. I can assure you that Red Rum was definitely NOT one of the greatest chasers, but he was much loved by his millions of adoring fans which probably gives people like yourself a misleading impression that he must have been one of the greatest jumpers, which is simply not true.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
We're never going to agree which is fine.A top thoroughbred runs maybe 20 races in his race career and has 2 possibly 3 years to shine.What does he leave behind for posterity in this small window?How many wins in 1st class races,how many TC wins,how many TR's,how many WR's?Sure the horse is probably going to have a few off days and get beaten...the judges take account of that.But this is essentially the footprint on time that the horse leaves.Theres nothing else to judge the horse by.If you have a better system let the judges know please.
As to Red Rum,I'll say this...his 3 wins and 2 seconds in the MOST DIFFICULT RACE IN THE WORLD in my humble opinion automatically qualify him as one of,if not the greatest jump horse ever.The horse that won 5 Cheltenhams must be up there as well but Id say3 AIntrees > 5 Gold Cups.Championship races or not,the AIntree course is a greater test and so it must carry more weight!!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -4 points
Clearly I am unable to convince you that the only way to determine one horse's superiority over another is when they race against each other and one or other prevails,which is common sense in anyone's language. Secretariat couldn't break track records every time he raced,nor could he win every race he contentested by 31 lengths, which emphasises the fact that he was not a machine,just flesh and blood. As for Red Rum. You must understand that the Grand National is a unique race,totally different to any other type of jump race. Very few of the top chasers ever contest the race because they would be handicapped with huge weights which would give the others carrying much lower weights a distinct advantage. On a park course, which is any other racetrack in the country, Red Rum's race record was very ordinary indeed. To put that into perspective here is Red Rum's record at Aintree: Ran 5 times, won 3 times and was second twice. Now compare that with his race record on all the other tracks he raced on: Ran 98 times,won 19 placed 36 ,unplaced 42 and he fell once. I think that you will agree that on the balance of his form he was a much better horse when he ran at Aintree than when he ran on other courses. Red Rum was never good enough to contest the championship races such as the Cheltenham Gold Cup and the King George VI Chase. The stark fact is that if the Grand National didn't exist as a race then I'm afraid Red Rum would never have achieved the fame and recognition that he has.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
I never said it was easy as 1,2,3 to decipher a horse's record and come up with a rating.Its complex.Very complex.But this is indeed what they do.Head-to-head is impossible for obvious reasons and is in anycase an unsatisfactory way of ajudicating it,if it were possible.eg,SEC ran the 3 greatest races in US history in succession but lost to Onion.Ok,so Onion is better??????No,for obvious reasons they take the overall record.If Lammtarra isnt Europe's greatest horse,then what about Nijinsky.His record was damn good in that he won the TC.It cant be Seabird because saying how effortless and majestic he was JUST DOESNT CUT IT.You have to win the TC and the times must be top notch.Its flat racing for chrissakes!!What else is there except times to indicate greatness!!!!!AS regards Red Rum,true I dont know much about the jumps but I do know he won AIntree a record 3 times.As that is the worlds most difficult jump course,if it were being judged this side of the Atlantic,then he would figure VERY PROMINENTLY.Only common sense.Also he never fell in 100 races,am I right?
Added 13 years ago by guest, -7 points
No, I'm afraid that Lammtarra wouldn't be Europe's biggest contender as the course record he established when winning the Epsom Derby was bettered last year when Workforce set the new figures. Lammtarra's Prix de l'arc de Triomphe time has also been bettered by others. That is not to say that Lammtarra wasn't the best European racehorse, but that can never be proved.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
I understand that you know nothing about National Hunt racing in the British Isles and Ireland, as Red Rum wouldn't make the top 10 of the best steeplechasers of all time and that is FACT, whatever anyone else says to the contrary. As for who was the greatest flat performer of all time, the question is purely academic as there is no conceivable way of proving it. Extrapolations of form, time, records, quality of opposition,winning distances,etc don't count for a hill of beans. The only definitive proof that horse A is superior to horse B is when the two horses race head to head and one or the other prevails. All you are doing in these posts is propounding an unsubstantiated opinion. Please don't misunderstand me , there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not dogmatically asserted to be a fact.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Of course you judge a horse by its record.The win-lose ratio is not really important but is considered.The number of wins in big races and the margins therein are the next marker.Then the number of track records.And finally the number of world records.Secretariat still has 4 TR's and 1 WR 40 years after retiring.This is unmatched and so he is de facto the greatest of all time.4 TR's(belmont,preakness,derby,marlboro), 3 WR's(1 1/8.1 1/4 ,1 1/2 dirt) with just 1 still remaining (1 1/2 dirt) and largest margin ever in 1st class horserace((31 lengths).MOW had numerous records but of course all broken now.I wouldnt argue with anyone who tied these two for the win but officially SEC is the greatest racehorse of all time.And Seabird?Holds no TR or WR whatsoever and never did.Times and records count for a lot in flat racing.Dont let anyone tell you differently.Lammtarra would be Europe's biggest contender.Its only in the jumps that times dont count.Greatest jump horse must be Red Rum or Arkle but thats not my area so dont quote me.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
most australian horses are not that good and not in the same class as european and american horses. there has never been an australian winner of the breeders cup which only goes to prove how poor australian horses are
Added 13 years ago by guest, 9 points
I bet the guy who said that So You Think would win at Royal Ascot feels an idiot. What a donkey that horse is. Secretariat would have given So You Think 2 furlongs start and still beaten him easily.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 11 points
You might not like the head to head encounter scenario, but that is the ONLY way that a definitive conclusion to an argument involving two or more racehorses is ever settled. I could say that Secretariat was superior to Man O'War, but how can I possibly prove that assertion. The simply answer is I can't, nor can anyone else.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
I dont like the head-to-head analogy one bit.Look at Secretariat being beaten by Onion.Sec had the inside line which he hated.He always ran his best on the outside going wide and clear.If youlook at the race where he gets beaten by Onion,you can see that hes effectively blocked and cant get through.So I dont go with head to head analogies one bit.What if one horse is running a temperature or has an abcess?If my life was at stake I wouldnt take the bet in the above scenario.If it was just money,Id put everything I could afford to lose on Secretariat.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
In any hypothetical horse race involving all the great racehorses in the history of thoroughbred racing,few would argue that Secretariat would start favorite. On the balance of his record alone, which includes being in possession of the fastest times in two of the three legs of the Triple Crown, and with very strong claims of having recorded the fastest time in the third leg also,despite an electronic failure in the timing for that race. Secretariat has,rightly in my opinion, been the benchmark by which all other racehorses are judged.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
While I am certainly partial to Secretariat, I would also take Sea Bird II, Man o'War or Spectacular Bid. While Sea Bird II only ran 8 races, his performances were virtually effortless, Man o' War's lregacy speaks for itself and Spectacular Bid may be the most under rated horse ever!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, -1 points
What I would say is that Secretariat is in possession of all the requisite attributes if you MUST have one horse to run for you ,if your life depended on it.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
I'm NOT so brave! I only meant if you HAD NO CHOICE but to choose a single horse over that distance it would be Secretariat!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, -1 points
All I can say to you,my friend, is that your are a much braver man than I. But then we all possess a certain degree of bravado when there is no likelihood of being put to the test. I suspect that in the event of a real life situation, where your life is on the line, then you might not have the courage of your current convictions.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
You make a super point my friend because NOTHING in any sport is a guarantee. Who would have thought that a tiny horse named "Prove-Out could run a 2:25-4/5 second time in the mud over a 1-1/2 mile track (one of the fstest 1-1/2 mile times EVER) and best Secretariat??? To place Prove-Out's time in perspective, Seattle Slew ran a 2:29+ in his Belmont Stakes TC "in the mud" win which means Prove-Out would have bested Slew that day by almost 16 lengths!!! What I am saying is based on your analysis, "if you had a gun to your head" and had to pick a horse to win a 1-1/2 mile run, I think you would go with Secretariat!!! Other than that, no one knows with 100% certainty what would happen.
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 2 points
Let us, for a moment at least, delve into the realms of fantasy and imagine a purely hypothetical situation. Assembled in a World Championship race ,run over a distance of 1mile 4 furlongs , are the following horses: Secretariat, Man O'War, Citation, Phar Lap, Native Dancer, Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew and Dr Fager. My apologies to anyone who feels that other great racehorses should be included in this imaginary race, but I had to draw the line somewhere. Now the question I would like to ask is this: If it was possible to bring these great racehorses together in one race, and if your life depended on selecting the winner of this race, how confident would you be to have one horse running for you with the outcome determining whether you live or die? Personally, I would not even consider it, because I couldn't be 100 per cent certain of the outcome. Yes, I know that this is a totally impossible scenario, but what I have tried to highlight here is the pointlessness of trying to compare one racehorse with another when they are generations apart. Secretariat statistical record is,indeed, superior to any other racehorse,but you cannot dogmatically claim that because he set more records than any other horse,that this automatically means that he would have beaten all the other great racehorses of history in a head to head physical encounter. Because Usain Bolt smashed Michael Johnson's World 200 metres record, and is also the World record holder at 100 metres,does this mean that in a head to head encounter of both these athletes at their peak that Bolt would have beaten Johnson over 200 metres? I,for one, would'nt have been prepared to predict the result.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
There is way too much emphasis placed on a horses record, especially considering the myriad of factors that go into a race including: (1) competition, (2) age & related handicaps, (3) Jockey error(s), (4) track surfaces/conditions, etc. Babe Ruth struck out a seemingly countless number of times, Michael Jordan lost baseketball games, Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson lost fights (and they WERE the best, pound for pound at their craft), Sandy Koufax was beaten by inferior teams and the list goes on and on. Yet, as an example, these sports icons will forever be the the benchmark for all to follow at their craft. Secretariat did lose some races and whether you believe there were extraordinary circumstances impacting most of those loses (which there were!) is NOT THE ISSUE. As one of the previous "guests" recently stated, Secretariat's records in the Triple Crown still reign supreme (except the Preakness which was only tied, not broken) almost 40 years later, a virtual unfathomable fact! Are you kidding me...the same horse owning ALL 3 RECORDS! Sec simply did things on a Mile+ surface that reached beyond the assumed limits of a race horse. Bottom line is Secretariat at his finest was " the best of the rest", a sheer running machine that is the closest thing to perfection we will ever see on a race track.
Added 13 years ago by bigred, -2 points
As much as I respect your opinion and, believe me, I do, no amount of statistical data and analysis can compensate for physical confirmation. As a physical encounter is palpably out of the question ,then it is not possible to arrive at an incontrovertible conclusion of one horse's superiority over another. Just to clarify the position of Ali being 8 years older than Foreman. It is a recognized fact of heavyweight boxing that heavyweights do not reach their prime until well into their 30's, so clearly the age factor was not a detrimental factor here. Incidentally Foreman regained the world heavyweight title when he was well into his 40's some 20 years later.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
I dont agree.It doesnt allow for variables(eg in your example,Ali was OLDER-8 yrs?- and not in his prime).One day Secretariat loses to Onion or Prove Out and the next day he runs like an equine God.You have to judge the athlete.man or beast,at his best.I mean what if Phelps gets beat at London Olympics?Does that mean he is no longer the greatest swimmer of all time and the gold medallist is?Secretariat has run the THREE greatest races in succession(one of them WR never to be beaten).I think this is enough to make a conclusion without being subjective.I really do.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -6 points
No, I'm afraid that a horse's record; number of wins against losses and the standard of opposition it defeated and the time comparisons still wouldn't solve the argument. Let me give you a boxing analogy to try and explain the difficulty in going on records instead of face to face encounters. I'm sure that nobody would argue that prior to the "Rumble in the Jungle" George Foreman's boxing record was superior to Muhammad Ali's ( Foreman had annihilated Frazier; Ali found Frazier a real handful. Foreman was unbeaten; Ali had been beaten. Foreman had more knockouts on his record than Ali. Foreman went into the fight with Ali an overwhelming favorite; few people gave Ali much of a chance against the ferocious punching power of Foreman. The rest,as they say,is history. Ali made Foreman look like a complete novice. I stand by what I said in my previous post . Hypothesis is the enemy of reason and logic. It is only when two horses,fighters,athletes, or whatever ,compete against one another can there be an indisputable outcome. Anything else is merely dabbling in the realms of subjective opinion.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
Very difficult to judge something like this.A horse can have an off day,a poor jockey,an unlucky line etc so going head-to-head may not be as decisive/fair as you think.The record must be the decider;number of wins vs losses( and the quality of the competition in those wins!) and the times.How else can you do it?You cant confuse greatest with favorite and be emotional about it.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
In the final analysis, regarding the argument as to who was the greatest racehorse in the history of thoroughbred racing, the answer is quite obvious to anyone with a reasonable,logical mind; WE WILL NEVER KNOW! All these assertions that Secretariat or Man O'War,or Citation or whoever is the best is nothing more than hypothesis. Only when two or more horses race against each other can an issue of who was the best ever be proved. In the case of the horses that have been mentioned that is evidently impossible. We can all expound our theories that this or that horse was the greatest ,but they are just that,theories. If any horse can be beaten in its racing career then who is to say that he might not have been beaten by one of the horses from an earlier period. You should all keep in mind this undeniable truism of thoroughbred racing: HORSES ARE FLESH AND BLOOD; THEY ARE NOT MACHINES!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
I think iconic racing analyst Charles Hatton, who just happened to see BOTH Man o' War and Secretariat said it best..."Secretariat's only point of reference is HIMSELF"...boldly admitting Secretariat was, indeed, the more superior horse than Man o' War. Of course, we will never know for sure since they were both incredible horses. However, when a racing icon such as Hatton who saw BOTH horses run claims Sec was the best horse ever, you can't help but listen!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 11 points
To the last poster..I think what you say is very very true except for one horse.Big Red.His feats were breathtaking and clearly unrivalled in any era.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
Calling Secretariat just a "good" horse is loony.His TC wins are the greatest in American racing.His Belmont run will NEVER be surpassed.Please review your inane remarks.Being unbeaten is a nice accolade but is ultimately immaterial.Zenayatta won19/19 before being beaten..does it make her greatest?Of course not.Man O'War was a legend but still behind Big Red.If we adjust his times for weight/unadventurous trainer/the era he ran in, HES STILL BEHIND BIG RED.Those are the facts.Th only question remaining is there a non-US horse to rival Big Red?My answer is unequivocally NO but Im open to discussion.As an aside,Spectacular Bid would take my vote as 2nd greatest US horse behind Bg Red ahead of MOW.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 9 points
All I ever hear from you Big Red fans about his defeats are EXCUSES! EXCUSES! and wait for it....more EXCUSES! Bottom line is Secretariat was a good horse but a long way short of being the best. Oh, and by the way , your English grammar leaves a lot to be desired,as does your spelling!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -18 points
Whoever you are you obviously don;t have a clue about what you are taking about. Do you realize that when Prove Out beat Secretariat he ran an incredible 2:25-4/5 mile and a half in the MUD which is the 3rd or 4th fastest 1-1/2 mile time EVER on a dirt surface (hmmm....I wonder who hold the record at 2:24!!!!). Secretariai was THROWN into that race at the "11th" hour because Riva Ridge couldn't race in the mud and Sec still ran a fantastic 2:26-3/5 second time that would have blown away any of the so called "30 horses" you stated in your prior note...still one of the top 10 fastest 1-1/2 mile dirt times. Regarding Onion, Sec had a 101/102 tempature and should have NEVER raced that day. In fact, Turcott REFUSED to ride him beacuse he was sick but when Lauren threatened to simply find another jockey, Turcott gave in. Please do your homework before making future ludicrous statements! Bottom line is I shouldn't even respond to anyone that says 30 or more horses are better than Secretariat because you are obviously jealous of "Big Red" and your comments are as tainted as your knowledge of race horsing. Sec is the greatest horse ever...PERIOD!!!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 5 points
There are 30 or more horses on this list who would have left Secretariat trailing in their wake. Are you seriously expecting me to believe that Onion and Prove Out would have beaten Man O'War, Citation, Phar Lap, Ruffian,Spectacular Bid and many,many others too numerous to mention? No, the sad fact is that all you Big Red fans are wearing hoods. I suggest you take them off and take a look at the real world and not the fantasy world you all live in.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -15 points
Oh and just in case anyone asks who Lammtarra is , just take a look at him winning the Epsom Derby on his first run of the season ( second run ever ) not only winning going away , but broke the course record ,then won the King George at Royal Ascot and finished off by winning the Arc the hard way , from the front.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
Love to have seen him race against Lammtarra at Epsom . Im sure it would have been a very close race
Added 13 years ago by guest, -6 points
Definitely America's greatest horse of all time but was he better than Europe's best?how do you measure that?Is there a world rating?
Added 13 years ago by guest, -6 points
There are lots of these lists on the internet and the three names that come up time and time again are Secretariat,Man O'War and Seabird.Personally,I believe the top 20 in history are all interchangeable...you cant pick one.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Well said. Very subjective indeed. However, what we do know is there are several races Secretariat ran in that NO HORSE EVER could have possibly beaten him. Races such as his Kentucky Derby (1:59-2/5 record running WIDE through the entire race!), Marlboro Cup (1:45 in change and GALLUPING to a tie of Spectacular Bid's 1-1/4 mile world record of 1:57-4/5...ridiculous!), and the iconic Belmont Stakes he was unbeatable. It simply cannot be a coincidence that he still owns ALL 3 Triple Crown records (including an unoffiial tie in the Preakness due to a clock malfunction), and still world record owner of the 1-1/2 mile dirt time by a FULL SECOND or 5 lengths!!!! It is unfathomable that a horse can maintain such records overa nearly 40 year period, and that my friends is the true measure of "greatness". Any horse can have a super wining record if they are racing against sub-par competition , but "THE RECORD TIMES DON'T LIE"!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, -2 points
As with most things in life we all have our different opinions and arefully entitled to express them. What many people are forgetting is that the opinions expressed about ALL the horses on this forum are just that opinions. There never can be an authoritative statement that this horse is better than that horse because they can never race against each other. No one can categorically claim that Secretariat would definitely have beaten Man O'War or Sea Bird would have beaten Ribot. I base this on the fact that Secretariat was beaten as was Man O'War so too Sea Bird. We should all of us accept that thoroughbred history on both sides of the Atlantic and Australasia has produced great racehorses and just be grateful that we have been privileged to have witnessed the exploits of those equine marvels.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
I wish people would vote responsibly but having said that I think Secretariat is positioned about right.ie a good two lengths clear of his nearest rival so I suppose alls well that ends well.The people who really annoy me are those that claim hes over-rated as it flies in the face of reason.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
I totally agree with the last contributor. This has now become a complete farce ,and all those people who have added their honest appraisals of the horses on this forum must be extremely annoyed at the way the mischief makers have spoiled things. To those responsible I will just say this: Grow up and start behaving like mature adults!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Greatest racehorse by a mile.Beaten 4 times?Dont care.You dont have to be unbeaten to be the greatest.Kincsem would have the title if that were the case.His Belmont run is the most superlative demonstration of equine power that theres ever been or ever will be.God's mount.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 7 points
Hope you are right about So You Think. He was really impressive in Ireland when he won by 10 lengths. Might risk a £50 ante post bet on him for Royal Ascot.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -8 points
Has Rewilding, among others, to beat at Ascot.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
A ludicrous exercise trying to rate turf horses over dirt horses and vice versa. They may as well be two different species. Here's a tip for the punters... So You Think in the Prince of Wales stakes at Royal Ascot. One that will be on future turf lists as one of the greats.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -17 points
I love Secretariat.I watched the movie.I cant bellieve how unpopular Shan is now caus eof Secretariat!Now Secretariat is #1
Added 13 years ago by guest, -6 points
Great horse indeed! But never as good as Sea bird. The Belmont stakes our the kentucky Derby are never as prestigious races as L'arc the thriomphe or King George VI and Queen Elisabeth stakes.
America is just not as prestigious as Europe and the horses that Europe had were just a lot better (Montjeu, Hurricane run, seabird, ribot, sea the stars, zarkava, Shawanda, ... )
Added 13 years ago by guest, -10 points
Lochroe, I don't think so. Like DK46 said, it was Sec's natural build that (probably) would not offset him as a 4-5 year old. He was just a natural beast of a horse. We will never know for sure but it sure would have been nice to see Sec run as a 4-5 year old.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Isn't it possible, even probable, Dannykeith46, that Secretariat would never have been better than he was at three years? Not that that makes him other than one of the all-time greats.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, -2 points
I'm British and must concede that Secretariat was the greatest of all time.He ran from the back,toyed with the competition and was never ridden on yet still holds all 3 TC track records and the WR for 1 1/2.No horse,not even the effortless Seabird,compares.The bravest horse of all time was Red Rum.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 7 points
To "Lochroe" - Well said and typically you would be correct but NOT with Secretariat. Keep in mind that people fail to realize "Sec" was roughly 50 - 100 lbs heavier than most race horses, topping scales at 1,100 lbs (his saddle size was exraordinary)! Most horses would have been considered overweight and/or "ot of shape" but "Sec's" extra weight was pure muscle and part of his "one of a kind" mystique. Virtually every expert agreed that extra weight would not have affected "Sec" at all because of his unique structure/build, and that 6 - 8 extra lbs would NOT have been nearly enough to negatively offset his STRONGER structure typically asscoiated with a 4 year old (I'm sure that 22 lb heart would not have hurt, either!). Trust me...at 4 Secretariat would have set unfathomable track records, and if you think the Belmont Stakes was special, I can't even fantasize what he might have done racing as a 4/5 year old. Regardless, as the old saying goes, "it is what it is" and all of these discussions only amount to pure conjecture. Happy horse rooting!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, -4 points
I don't argue with Dannykeith46 about Secretariat's prodigious ability, but it is wrong to assume that he would have maintained his superiority over his peers had he raced as a four-year-old. The weight for age scale indicates that horses ON AVERAGE improve about 6lb between the date of Secretariat's last race and the start of the following season, but some horses do not make the expected improvement, while others make much more. Very often, the champion three-year-olds are simply the most precocious of their age, which is why I reserve the ultimate accolade for the animal proving himself best when he and all his contemporaries race one another when they are fully mature.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, -5 points
Dead on - the greatest horse of all time by a mile.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
Someone wants to say he wasnt a great horse, the best, really. Secretariat tore up the Belmont Stakes. He finished at what 31-32 Lengths. The reason Secretariat didn't win a couple was because he was sick. Another he was disqualified for a absolutley rediculous reason. But how could you POSSIBLY call this legendary horse overrated. I meat he won by o whopping 21 lengths, he was kicking butt. WAS AND IS the best racehorse. I can't believe this is even being argued over
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
you people think you know a lot about horse racing yes Secratariat may have lost 4 races but if you think about it he did win the triple crown im just sayin
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
Jeepster by his own admission is a wind-up merchant, but even a wind-up merchant ought to know that Phar Lap was a New Zealand-bred who raced exclusively in Australia. And he should be able to spell Lasix correctly.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, -4 points
Yeah secretariat is the bomb the other horses you mentioned besides man. War I haven't heard of pry cause I don't follow horse racing or car to but like I said I don't follow the racing and still know how kickass secretariat was
Added 13 years ago by guest, -12 points
I think secretariat should be 1st!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Apology not even necessary but sincerely appreciated! I find it truely amazing that us race horse attics can get so attached to these wonderful animals to the point of going to unending limits of battle for the ones we truely admire and love. Your passion for Se Bird speaks for itself and is an endearing quality that every horse enthusiast should be blessed with...bottom line is: may these "who's #1" arguments and horse racing itself echo for eternity!!!
Best Regards to all!!!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, -2 points
I hadn't logged in when I submitted the above post and that is why it appears as being by a guest.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, 0 points
I apologise unreservedly Dannykeith46 and must confess that I have been winding you up a bit in these posts. I totally agree with you. Secretariat,of course, was a truly phenomenal racehorse and unquestionably one of the all time greats,that is beyond dispute. Sea Bird, Man O' War, Phar Lap, Citation, Ribot and many others belong to that select group that can all be bracketed in the same class. Once again my sincere apologies to you and I extend my very best wishes to you .
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
And if SeaBird raced against "Big Red" at Belmont on June 9, 1973 he would be crossing the finish line just about now! Seriously though, the sad thing is I KNOW SeaBird was an incredible horse and undoubtedly one of the greatest. Regarding the greatest horse ever, it is SO subjective but radical comments such as yours are TOTALLY uncalled for. Secertariat was a perfect creature and has NEVER been seriously accused of taking performance enhancing drugs in the mainstream. To attack "Sec" like that only proves your undeniable fear of his iconic stature. I will not lower myself to your level anymore by responding to anymore of your $#@%$#, but end in saying BOTH "Sec" and Sea Bird were awesome and truely super horses!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 5 points
You should take those blinkers off ,Danny boy, and take a clear look at the real world!
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, -5 points
Dannykeith46,are you seriously claiming that Secretariat DIDN'T race without the aid of Lasics in his system,because if you are then you you are a bigger fool than I thought. It is common knowledge that Secretariat raced quite regularly with the aid of this drug, which would have got him banned from appearing on a European racetrack where racehorses only race on their merit. As for Secretariat beating Sea Bird ,yeh sure he would have. WITH A FURLONG START!
There have been far better horses in the US than Secretariat, Man O' War, Phar Lap and Ruffian to name three. Get real Danny boy.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, -9 points
Hey Jeepster...why don't you engage your brain before you engear your mouth!!! Secretariat NEVER took enhancement related drugs and was simply the BEST EVER on his OWN merit. You should be ashamed of yourself for even insinuating such a ludicrous statement. Just because "Big Red" would have kicked SeaBird's Ass on ANY Europeon surface doesn't give you the right to make false statements. Jealousy is a tough thing and I pity you for having to deal with the fact that SeaBird, or any other horse for that matter, would have gotten a great look a Secretariat's rear end at most finish lines. Please spare the racing horse community any more far fetched statements..."Big Red" was simply a "once in a lifetime" horse and you know it!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 4 points
I doubt if Secretariat would have been the same horse if he had raced on merit instead of being pumped full of drugs such as Lasics,etc. One thing is absolutely certain he would not have been allowed on a European racetrack with all those performance enhancing drugs in his system. Epsom racetrack would definitely have found him out with its rollercoaster undulations.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, -11 points
"I certainly don't subscribe to all the hype that Secretariat was greatest racehorse ever. He lost 4 of his 16 races and two of those losses were to very average horses in Prove Out and Onion. In my opinion Man O' War, Citation, Phar Lap and from Europe Sea Bird II and Ribot were better."
i have no idea where this guy gets his facts...secretariat ran in 21 races not 16. he also finished in the money in 20 of those 21 races, winning 16. note the belmont by 31 lengths....not only that but one of his colts Canadian Bound set a record for sale of a yearling a 1.5 million dollars. so before you comment do your homework instead of talking out of your ASS!!!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 7 points
Please relax with your "hyped to the max comment". Secretariat would beat ANY horse ANYWHERE...ANYTIME...when he was 100%. In fact, regarding your turf statement, that is absolutely ridiculous since he easily won his only 2 turf races (his last two races) with Lucien Lauren and other racing experts insisting he would have been even better on a turf surface. I don't think anyone can say who is the greatest race horse for sure, but undoubtedly Secretariat belongs on the list of potential candidates. To say he couldn't race with Europeaon horses on turf is absurd and consider how good he would have been as a 4 year old since, anatomically, Horses are far superior at 4 vs. 3! Unfortunately, due to his $6M syndication we were denied of the potential world records he would have continued to set as a 4 year old INCLUDING turf races. Why do you think Arcaro called him the best he ever saw...you are talking about the opinion of the jockey who rode CITATION...I do believe that says it all!!!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 7 points
Great Horse, fantastic few races but over hyped to the max, never travelled only ever raced in the states, cant be considered the best race horse ever over the back of a few wins and a few records... many many many horses of same calibre and better over much more distances. He never retired an unbeaten horse, I have no doubt he wouldnt have lived with the european horses of the time on the turf...
Added 13 years ago by guest, -14 points
Bull, Sea Bird II is the best horse of all time. His derby win was outstanding! He crused up and won with a tonne in hand. Secretariat can't hold a candle to this god of horses.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -12 points
Anyone who can possibly state that Secretariat is over rated should not be part of this discussion and ste0 aside from further racehorsing analysis. Are you kidding me!!!! SEC did things on a racetrack that NO other horse EVER could posssibly match. Regarding his 4 losses (REMEMBER, one loss he did win but was disqualified for a ridiculous technicality), he was sick in 2 of those and should have NEVER run. Also, do you realize that in his other loss in the woodward stakes, Prove Out ran the 1-1/2 mile race in less than 2:26, one of the few horses ever to accomplish that feat on a dirt track....hmmm...I wonder who still holds the world record at 2:24 in the Belmont Stakes!!!! Do you also know that when SEC set the 1-1/8 mile record in the Marlboro Cup he GALLOPED to an unfathomable 1:57-4/5 mile and a quarter time....only a few fifths of a second from Spectacular Bid's world record mark....that is correct...after a 1/8 of a mile gallup!!!!!! The few racing analysts who saw Man o' War and Sec including the iconic Charles Hatton agree that Sec was the greatest horse ever. Even Eddie Arcaro who rode Citation gives the nod to Sec but then again, what does Arcaro know??? For all of you deadbeats who continue to consider Secretariat over rated, your opinions are, by far, the most shortsighted claims I have ever seen in any sports related discussion and an embarassment to both this forum and the racing industry. True, the title of "greatest ever" is very subjective and horses such as Man o'War, Citation, Count Fleet, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew Kelso, Ruffian, etc. could all be argubale choices. But the fact remains when Secretariat was right and at PEAK VALUE, he could do things on a racing tack far beyond the capabilty of virtually any other horse. Simply put, I pity those who would even consider the remote possiblity of calling him over rated and suggest you remain completely anonymous to avoid the utmost embarrassment of your peers!!!!!!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 13 points
Overrated? Wow, if you can't see how amazing his Belmont stakes was then you're obviously blind. "The great American racehorses are all vastly overrated" and what exactly makes Euro horses better? Turf and dirt are two very different surfaces and this horse could run on both... impressively at that!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 11 points
Absolutely one of the best! He lost his first start bumped around and ill ridden. He was moved from first to second for a jockey error. He had an unknown abcess once and a fever and infection twice in losing efforts. Check his times for the same distances and against virtually the same horses and distances when fit and well. Not too difficult to ascertain if fairly done. His times speak for themselves and even aging horsemen who saw all the greatest horses suggest strongly that Secretariat was the greatest horse ever seen.
Added 13 years ago by budoinst, 0 points
Hello? Did anyone even watch his Belmont run? He won by like 32 lengths!! There should be no doubting that he was one of the greatest! That horse was one of a kind and not at all overrated. There will never be any matching to him. Perhaps Seattle Slew but that can be debatable.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 4 points
The great American racehorses are all vastly overrated, none more so than this one. His 22lb heart would have exploded had he tried his hand in a average handicap at Epsom let alone the Derby itself.
Added 14 years ago by guest, -19 points
Amazing horse won the belmont stakes by 31 lengths and set a record there and at the kentucky derby. no horse ever come close. he was fast not to mention beautiful. And in case you people didnt know he was more than just some horse his heart weighed 22 pounds which exlpains how he can run at such a fast pace for so long. Too bad he died at 19 his life was just beginning...
Added 14 years ago by guest, 0 points
Most over rated horse ever lost 2 of his last 3 races on dirt to average horses,there are far better horses than Sec
Added 14 years ago by guest, -21 points
Most overrated horse ever !!
Added 14 years ago by guest, -16 points
Prove out was no "ORDINARY HORSE" look him up... If horses have a god his name is "Secretariat"...It's not just the record time but the way he ran those races,five wide in the first turn,3 wide in second?
Added 14 years ago by guest, 3 points
I certainly don't subscribe to all the hype that Secretariat was greatest racehorse ever. He lost 4 of his 16 races and two of those losses were to very average horses in Prove Out and Onion. In my opinion Man O' War, Citation, Phar Lap and from Europe Sea Bird II and Ribot were better.
Added 14 years ago by charwoody, -22 points
Truly great horse ,there's absolutely no doubt about that.
Added 14 years ago by jaxartes, 1 point
2.
Sea Bird II
Sea Bird II was the greatest European racehorse of the 20th century and quite probably the greatest thoroughbred ever to have graced the turf anywhere in the world. I have been involved in horseracing for 53 years and I've only seen two other horses who can be compared to Sea Bird II : Ribot the unbeaten Italian champion and the American wonder horse Secretariat. But for me Sea Bird II was the best of them all.
1070 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 79 comments
Comments:
Best racehorse there has ever been in my opinion.
Added 9 years ago by guest, -2 points
Greatest racehorse ever to race on planet earth. There will never be another like him.
Added 10 years ago by guest, -15 points
Top class horse. Nothing to touch him in Europe or America
Added 10 years ago by guest, -5 points
Sea Bird was a real superstar of a racehorse. Easily the best I have ever seen.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 3 points
Incredible racehorse. Sea Bird and Arkle were two of a kind.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 2 points
" It's Sea Bird on the wing, a great champion." Those were the words of BBC commentator Peter O'Sullevan in describing Sea Bird's win in he 1965 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. Every time I review the race I still get a shiver up and down my spine. There is absolutely no doubt about it in my mind, Sea Bird was one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
i have seen this horse winning his races on youtube and he was very impressive although all the footage was in black and white. i don't know if he was better than secretariat but they raced in different eras so it is very difficult to know.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
Look no further on this list of the world's top thoroughbreds, you've found the greatest: SEA BIRD II.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
Apart from an ill- judged defeat as a 2 year-old, when he was ridden by a jockey who didn't know the horse and who gave Sea Bird far too much ground to make up, he never put a foot wrong in his second season carrying all before him in winning the major European races. There has never been an easier winner of the Epsom Derby and Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. Sea Bird can rightly be regarded as one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Whilst it is impoossibnle to compare hiorses from diffrent era's Sea Birds vicorioes where he left great horses trailing in his wake are something to behold. Secretariat ran in far simpler, less demanding and poorer quality races.
Added 12 years ago by Bill Lambert, -8 points
Until Royal Ascot in 2012, no horse has bettered the Timeform rating of 145 achieved by Sea-Bird II, the winner of the Derby and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in 1965. The French-trained colt coasted to victory in both races with an easy, almost effortless stride and even the great Dancing Brave, who won one of the strongest Arcs in history in 1986, could not quite equal his mark. Now, though, Sea-Bird II is the second best horse in Timeform history, with Frankel rated not just one but two pounds better on 147.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
I don't know who was the best Sea Bird or Secretariat but I do know that I have never seen an easier winner of the Epsom Derby and Arc. Sea Bird's wins in those races were just mindblowing.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
Those of us who saw Sea Bird in action in 1965 KNOW that he has no equal in Europe, America or anywhere else in the world.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -6 points
I have seen all the best racehorses in action and I have to say that for me, none of them compare to Sea Bird. He was truly exceptional, and for me, personally, he had no equal.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
Sea Bird was the greatest racehorse there ever was.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
Sea Bird and Frankel deserve to be rated top of the list of the greatest horses ever to race. I'm not saying that Big Red and all the other horses talked about here are not great horses in their own right, but I believe that Sea Bird and Frankel are truly exceptional racehorses.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
No argument Sea Bird was top of the tree. Nothing to touch him on this list.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -5 points
For me, personally, Sea Bird II was the greatest racehorse of all time, I've never seen another horse to match him that's for sure. Secretariat was a good horse, but second best to Sea Bird is all he will ever be.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
Great horse but not quite in same league as SEC or MOW.The evidence is out there,you just have to look for it.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 12 points
I still get goosebumps every time I watch Sea Bird on YouTube. It's difficult to accept the fact that it has been 47 years since this titan of the turf swept all before in that never- to- be- forgotten summer and autumn of 1965. Many of those horses that finished behind Sea Bird in the races he won went on to win top races themselves, which simply emphasised the brilliance and superiority of this truly amazing racehorse. There is no doubt about it in my mind, Sea Bird was the greatest racehorse of all time.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
One in 10 million. Sea Bird was simply in a class apart, there will never be another like him.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
TOP CLASS RACEHORSE WHO HAS NO EQUAL.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -7 points
Sea Bird II was a truly incredible racehorse,certainly without any doubt the best I have ever seen race in the past 50 years. That is not to say that there haven't been other top class horses, from all over the world, who have left their indelible mark on the horseracing scene in the last half century. Having said all that none ,in my opinion, have come up to the standard set by that French colt way back in 1965. There will never be another racehorse who will set the horseracing world alight quite like the inimitable Sea Bird,well not in my lifetime anyway.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
To answer the query :"Why is he named Sea Bird II". Well the answer is quite simple. There was a horse previously named Sea Bird, but not in the same class as Sea Bird II.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
I've always wondered why people who love horse racing and love horses disparage them so easily. To the comment about Secretariat being "doped up, pumped up, etc." Secretariat was not. He was an exceptionally healthy horse with few problems. Today, that is not the case and the American horse racing industry depends much to much on unregulated administration of various medications. It is said to see horses so lightly raced, bloodlines so crossed, and so many horses who suffer serious injury which exceeds the rate of occurrence in the past in the US or in any other country. The industry is destroying our horse racing. Read an article in the New York Times (I believe in the last month or so) about the shame of the horse racing industry).
Added 12 years ago by guest, 14 points
It is really a wasted exercise to compare horses of different eras - there are too many factors; so the point of the Epsom Derby--rising 134 feet is valid. So is it mistaken to compare Hawksters record on 1.5 miles at Santa Anita on turf to Secretariat's 1.5 record on dirt. The turf @ Santa Anita has a downhill section which contributes to faster times. You really have to know what you are comparing.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 9 points
I see one contributor would not have Sea-Bird in his top 50 saying 19th century US horses beat Sea-Bird's Epsom Derby time over 1 1/2 miles.
Does he know that the Epsom Derby course rises 134 feet in the first half of the race?
Comparing times on a flat regular US oval to Epsom is like comparing chalk (Epsom geddit) to cheese).
Hawkster ran 2 22 4/5 over 1 1/2 miles at Santa Anita. Secretariat ran 2 24 at Belmont. You can compare times to times but you can not draw a conclusion. Well you can, but it an uninformed conclusion.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 6 points
why is he named sea bird II?
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
It is impossible to argue with the logic of the last contributor, he is absolutely correct. Sea Bird was a truly sensational racehorse, but then so were many of those other horses mentioned in this list. Speaking for myself, I feel privileged to have witnessed the exploits of Sea Bird, who is certainly the greatest racehorse that I ever saw race.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
There is no point arguing. The only way to prove who is best is to race them all together under the same conditions. Never gonna happen, Never gonna find an answer to this argument.
Sorted
Added 12 years ago by guest, 6 points
Absolutely agree with that. Sea Bird won all his races without any artificial aids. He was easily the greatest race horse there has ever been.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
No,I'm talking about a truly great racehorse called Sea Bird II, not that hyped up ,pumped up, doped up US animal. If Secretariat had been born in Europe I doubt if he would ever have seen a racecourse. They don't allow horses to race in Europe when they are pumped full of performance-enhancing drugs.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -8 points
Interesting statement because a better race horse named Secretariat ran at Belmont Park, Churchill Downs, Pimlico, Woodbine Canada and Aqueduct and last I checked these race tracks exist on planet Earth!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 11 points
If there was ever a better racehorse than Sea Bird then he never ran on a racecourse on this planet.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -6 points
Sea Bird II was truly a racehorse made in heaven, an equine superstar. Even though Sea Bird was such a highly- strung racehorse, he was still far and away the greatest racehorse that ever saw a racetrack. Due to his highly-strung nature he wasn't an easy horse to keep in training, and the fact that his trainer, Etienne Pollet, was able to produce him fit to race was testament to the genius of this Frenchman. I am absolutely convinced that Sea Bird was easily the greatest racehorse of all time, and nothing and no-one will ever convince me otherwise.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Top class racehorse, probably the greatest thoroughbred ever seen on a racetrack anywhere in the world. Never be another like him , he was unique.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -3 points
The greatest racehorse ever. No argument.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -8 points
A ranking of the greatest race horses in history is obviously based on quality not quantity. Sea Bird may have raced only 8 times and was beaten once, but if you look at the quality of his wins in the The Derby Stakes and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe there is no doubting his claim to being the greatest race horse ever. We laymen can bicker endlessly about this, but read the book A Century of Champions by Tony Morris and John Randall. This book is the best attempt at ranking the best race horses in the 20th Century in the world. Written by two experts their opinions carry far more weight than ours. You will not agree with the placings of certain horses relative to others, but you cannot dispute their reasoning.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
THE BEST OF THE BEST AS FAR AS I AM CONCENED.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Sea Bird was the only racehorse to send shivers up and down my spine every time I saw him race. Johnny Tillotson had Sea Bird in mind when he sang "Poetry In Motion"
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
There has never been a horse to compare with Sea Bird II and there never will be.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -4 points
Seen all the great racehorses in my long life,I'm 77, and there have been some fantastic memories amongst them. If I had to single out ONE special memory then it would have to be the incomparable Sea Bird winning the 1965 Arc. To me, personally , nothing can compare with that performance, it was simply mindblowing. He was the greatest racehorse I have ever seen,that's for sure.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
For me, personally, there is absolutely no doubt that Sea Bird II was the best racehorse of all time. Each of his wins as a three year- old was achieved with such incredible ease that you got the distinct impression that he was only performing at half speed. I am convinced beyond any doubt that if Pat Glennon had asked him a serious question in any of his races then we would have witnessed something really special.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
I have never witnessed a better racehorse than Sea Bird, and I have been involved in horse racing for better than 50 years. With each year that passes I hope to see another champion to compare with the great Sea Bird but I guess I should resign myself to the fact that Sea Bird was unique and that there will never be another one like him.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
I can remember Sea Bird winning the Epsom Derby and the Prix de l'arc de Triomphe in 1965 as if it was yesterday. You never forget an experience like the two wins Sea Bird achieved in those prestigious races,which is now fast approaching almost 50 years ago. The thing I remember most about Sea Bird's victories was just how effortless and majestic they were. He had such a silky smooth action,it was a delight to watch him race. I have been privileged during my life to have seen two of the greatest racehorses of all time ,Sea Bird II and Arkle and I consider myself extremely fortunate indeed to have been around at the time they raced.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
it not easy judgeing who is the greatest horse of all time. many people have different opinions we can not all agree. for me it is big red and then phar lap and maybe man o war in third position but that is just one persons opinions. no one can agree all the time. some good horses race over in europe but i do not know much about them only when they come to america for the bc races.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
By the same token I think Secretariat was brilliant but Sea Bird II was better.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -8 points
Seabird was very good but cant be compared to Secretariat.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 18 points
Whilst I am Sea Bird's number one fan, he really was the best racehorse that I have ever seen in action, I must agree that Secretariat was a truly fantastic racehorse. His record alone stands up to the closest inspection and the times he posted in his Triple Crown victories in 1973 still stand today,38 years later. Love him or hate him, any fair minded racing fan must admit that Secretariat is one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 17 points
In my opinion the following European horses stand ahead of the rest - Ribot, Sea Bird II, Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Brigadier Gerard, Shergar, and Dancing Brave. They all won either the King George or the Arc (being the top two WFA races in Europe) in authorative performances with Ribot, Mill Reef, and Dancing Brace winning both. Sea Bird II's win in the Arc of 1965 was the most impressive in this race beating a top class field, which obviously had a major impact on him being award Timeform's top rating. While it is extremely difficult to say, which one horse is the greatest I would rate Brigadier Gerard the most complete horse of this elite group. He won 9 WFA races over 2 seasons ranging in distance from 1600m to 2400m.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
Bigred, while Secretariat's Belmost was amazing maybe you should check out Deep Impact's effort in the 3200m Tenno Sho in 2006 running 3:13.4. Equally as impressive.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Sea Bird II was indeed a spectacular race horse, but you might want to take 2 minutes and 24 seconds out of your schedule in the near future and watch a tape of Secretariat's Belmont Stakes run if you are truely attempting to witness perfection. What Secretrait accomplished on that historic day was to stretch the physical limits of what an equine champion should be able to accomplish. Simply stated his performance was supernatural which is why only a single horse has been able to get within 5 lengths of his time after 140+ years of racing. This is no knock whatsoever on Sea Bird II or any other world-wide horse. My sole point is that Sec's Belmont run could NEVER be matched by any horse, anywhere, anytime!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 9 points
How can you improve on perfection? And for me,personally, Sea Bird II was the epitome of equine excellence. I can only give a totally biased opinion of this spectacular racehorse, which is to say that I have never seen a better thoroughbred in action than this horseracing superstar.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
1965 was a great year because not only was Sea Bird II the best flat horse in the world,but Arkle was also proving that he was the greatest steeplechaser there has ever been. We will never again see two horses who were so superior to every other racing at the same time.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 6 points
Best racehorse I ever saw. All the superlatives in the English dictionary wouldn't do justice to this brilliant horse's ability. He was unique, and there will never be another like him,certainly not in my lifetime anyway.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
I have to say that Sea Bird was,without a doubt, the finest racehorse I ever saw run. All his wins were achieved with the minimum of effort and he never seemed to be out of a canter. Apparently he was a very difficult horse to train as he was such a nervous type. His jockey Pat Glennon who was Australian , was on record as saying that he never got to the bottom of Sea Bird's ability as he never had to ask him a serious question in any of his races.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
They broke the mould when this horse was born,he was the pre-eminent European racehorse of the twentieth century and along with the great Italian champion stands head and shoulders above all the rest. I'm not familiar with the American horseracing scene so it would be pointless of me to make any comments about any of the racehorses from that country, although I'm sure there have been some great thoroughbreds from that country too, particularly Secretariat and Man O'War.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
Anyone who witnessed Sea Bird's rout of the Derby and Arc fields in 1965 would be in no doubt of this horses's claims to be one of the greatest racehorses of all time. I know that I have never seen a better performance by a racehorse anywhere in the world, and probably never will again.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
I cannot write about the great horses like some of you guys but I thinke I know a good horse one I see one. Arkle was great so was Mill Reef and Nijinski and Shergar. I also think that Sec Man O'War and Spectacular Bid are fantastic horses. Sea Bird was awesome so was Ribot They are all brilliant and I have seen them all on Youtube.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
Just watched this horse on YouTube winning the English Derby and the big European race they call the Arc. No escaping the fact that Sea Bird was a great horse after what he did to the opposition in those two races way back when. I'm no too sure if he would have beaten Secretariat though. I don't know much about record breaking race times on European tracks,but as far as I know Sea Bird didn't break any track records whereas Big Red did and still holds some of them nearly 40 years on.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 6 points
Pour Moi has just won the Epsom Derby and is the first French horse to have done so since Empery in1976. But without a doubt the best French horse ever was Sea Bird II who won the Epsom Derby in 1965. It is always difficult to compare great horses and probably unfair. This website contains the names of many truly great racehorses from all over the world and most of them deserve to be included here. I can only speak for myself, but I have to say that the best that I have ever seen was Sea Bird II. I don't think that I shall ever see a racehorse as brilliant as him again.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
I was lucky enough to see him win the Derby in 1965. Wow, I could not beleieve how easily he sprinted past Sunacelli and Niksar in the straight and he made it look so effortless. I saw him win the Arc on television and he was never off the bridle to beat the previously unbeaten French Derby winner Reliance II and a star-studded field that included five Derby winners and is generally regarded as the best field ever assembled for the Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. Sea Bird II was a very special racehorse.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 6 points
A silky smooth action and a truly scintillating turn of foot that took him past horses as if they were standing still. Someone once said that watching Sea Bird in action was just like a red hot knife going through butter.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
As far as I am concerned Sea Bird was by far the greatest racehorse I have ever seen. Won the Derby and Arc with imperious authority over a truly world class field. Never be another racehorse like him.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
There can be little doubt that Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave ,Nijinsky and Vaguely Noble were the best racehorses to appear on European racetracks in the Twentieth Century.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Without a doubt one of the supreme thoroughbreds of all time despite the fact that he was a bundle of nerves whenever he raced. For such a highly-strung animal to perform with such brilliance is a true testament to the calibre of Sea Bird's undoubted greatness.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Please STOP using the "tough" Epsom 1-1/2 mile course vs. an oval dirt track as your selling point for Sea Bird II vs. Secretariat...it is an embarassing stance. Are you seriously telling me that a tougher turf course would make up 13.5 seconds or 67.5 lengths when comparing Sea Bird's Epsom to Sec's Belmont!!! Secondly, I am NOT disputing Epsom as a tougher course but the tougher course is somewhat offset by the fact that it IS turf which ADDS time to a race horse's fractions. Substantiating that fact is EVERY World Record distance has indeed been performed on turf! If Sea Bird had raced against Secretariat at Belmont on June 9, 1973, there is NO POSSIBLE way he would have kept up with "Big Red" and would have been demoished like the rest of the field. That is simply FACT...and EVERYONE of you Europeon enthusiasts have to realize it is NOT JUST an OPINION!!!! NO horse EVER has come within 5 lengths of Sec's 2:24 time and don't hold your breath for that to happen in the near future. Sea Bird was great...absolutely no doubt about it but please stop comparing him to Secretariat,...it borders on insanity!!!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 15 points
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion about the ability of Secretariat to handle Epsom and other courses,but there is absolutely NO DOUBT that some European courses are tougher to handle than US courses, that cannot be disputed. Obviously a twisting, turning ,rollercoaster course like Epsom is tougher to negotiate than a flat course, as all US courses are to my knowledge. Chester, the oldest racecourse in the world, is a flat course, but is extremely tight, and calls for the more nippy type of animal. No, I cannot accept your assertion that some,not all,European racetracks are not a tougher test than US tracks. How on earth can you state categorically that Secretariat would have had no problem coping with a track such as Epsom , when you have no way of proving it?
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Great horse and justifiably in top 5 of all tme but at the end of the day his times in derby and arc werent all that spectacular(a good ten + secs off am I right?).And I dont agree that Euro courses are a tougher test.Secretariat would have run up and down those sloping hills of epsom without any problem.His heart was 22lbs.He was the most powerful and fastest horse of all time.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 6 points
The Race course in prix de L'arc de Thriomphe is just a lot more difficult the the American surface! The races in europe are so much prestigious and off course Secreteriat was a great horse, but he could never reach the greatness of Sea bird II !!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Seriously, how can you compare times returned on flat oval artificial surfaces like those in the States with those on Europe's widely varied turf tracks? Epsom's Derby course, for instance, rises steadily, with a slight bend, to about halfway then turns left and swoops steeply downhill before turning left again into the heavily cambered straight. Then, when the runners are tired, they are asked to climb the last half-furlong. I'm not saying that makes Epsom a great racecourse. On the contrary. But that's how it is.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, -2 points
No doubt about it,the greatest racehorse of all time. Would make all those American horses look like seaside donkeys!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -11 points
I have read on more than a couple discussion boards that Sea Bird II is the best thoroughbred of the 20th century. And this board rates him as #2. Are you kidding me? Where did this idea come from? Sea Bird II only ran 8 races, and the two races his fans cite to establish his "greatness" are the 1965 Prix de l'arc De Triomphe (won in 2:35.5) and 1965 Epsom Derby (won in 2:38.5). Both races are the same length that the Kentucky Derby was run prior to 1896. Let's for a moment not even talk about Sea Bird II's North American peers, but compare him to the Kentucky Derby champions from 1875-1895. Aristides in 1875 actually beat Sea Bird II's time for 1-1/2 miles in the Epsom Derby!!!! 10 other American horses over that period also bested Sea Bird II's time in the Epsom!!!!
Now let's talk about Sea Bird's peers. Secretariat raced only 8 years after Sea Bird retired and set a world record of 2:24 for 1 1/2 miles. When you look at the list of world records for thoroughbreds at all the various distances, several are still on the books from the late 1950's through the 1960's, and the best decade was actually the 1980's. So Sea Bird II was arguably racing during the 20 years that represented the pinnacle of thoroughbred racing. Sea Bird II's 2:35 in the Prix de l'arc De Triomphe was said to be against a stellar field of champions - an "awesome", "overwhelming" victory. Well, if Secretariat had been racing that day and was anywhere close to the form he displayed at the Belmont in 1973, he would have beaten Sea Bird II by over 50 lengths!!!! The 31 length victory over Sham in the Belmont would have looked like a warm-up compared to how he would have annihilated this European "champion".
So please, folks, let's face the facts and compare horses that really deserve comparison. Sea Bird II would not even make the top 50 horses in my list.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Obviously the best European horse. Secretariart was the best in America. These horses shouldn't be compared. I know who I like best, and Sea Bird fans know who they love
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Secretariat is the greatest American racehorse, and Sea Bird ii is the greatest European racehose.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
The best there's ever been. End of argument.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, -8 points
I'm lucky (and old) enough to have seen Secretariat and Sea Bird race in the flesh. I loved watching Secretariat and was thrilled by him. But US racing is a rather sterile affair. The same anti-clockwise time trial day after day.
Then I think of Sea Bird. I honestly believe this horse never broke sweat. Was he ever off the bit? Was he ever out of a canter?? We only ever saw the tip of the iceberg with Sea bird, but that was all he needed. Sea Bird was perfection.
Added 14 years ago by guest, -4 points
Sea Bird II never raced against the best in the wolrd. Never set records like Secretariat. He would never come close to any of Big Red feats especially the triple crown ones.
Added 14 years ago by rscarbro48, 9 points
I totally agree with the assessment of this brilliant racehorse. Sea Bird is generally regarded as the 'Champion of Champions' by many racing experts and I, for one, wouldn't argue with that.
Added 14 years ago by jaxartes, 4 points
3.
Man O' War
1034 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 32 comments
Comments:
Comparing times is almost ridiculous-You almost have to be an idiot to do that between 53 years!!!~-but if you want to do that w can play that game...but you won't like it. Me--I was an avid Secretariat fan...Oh come on!!! Man O' War was never fully exntended-that's a fact... and I've talked to Many Track Supers..Belmonts -two-Pimlico's-two Arlington's Santa Anita's... track clockers,too..they said you would have to give an allowance of 2 sec's/mile--even if you do one.. for the track surface much less the weather.... Also--how eas the pace?? Another factor..the weather--and how did they win? Secretariat was always being hand-ridden in a drive or against the clock like at Belmont-like his jockey admitted...
Man O' War was going easily ears pricked with a hold on him -any and all films of him show that. and Finally... Secretariat won on Aluminum plates...Man O' War RAN ON STEEL AND CAST IRON plates... QUITE THE DIFFERENCE!!~ UP TO 2.5 times the weight on their hooves!!~ Yes I checked it out..researched it. And just for the record...Secretariat ran his final race 3/5th's of a second Slower than Man O' War ran the distance 53 years earlier~
Added 8 years ago by guest, 2 points
Ruffian better than Secretariat (see post below)? What counter-factual nonsense! See under the "Secretariat" entry above for a factual comparison of their records. And in future, argue with facts rather than ignorant opinions.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 22 points
Man o' War could have easily destroyed Secretariat. He was virtually untested except in his 6th race, where he was facing backwards, had a terrible ride by his jockey and got pocketed on the rail. That's nothing compared to Secretariat's FIVE losses. Plus the original Big Red won a race by 100 lengths. That's right, those Secretariat people stole Big Red's nickname. Ruffian was better than him too.
Added 10 years ago by guest, -26 points
Deserves to be 2nd, Secretariat would be faster with the equipment and track. Secretariat was way better than Man o' War.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -2 points
If you've never heard of Man o' War, what are you doing even reading this site much less posting on it?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 6 points
Never heard of Man of War? What did he win?
Added 12 years ago by guest, -26 points
i think man o war should have placed at least 3rd, probaley not first cause secretariat was a big yes for first, but 4th? i think he is better than that , i mean, i watch horse racing like no other and never even heard of ribot
Added 12 years ago by guest, -6 points
I think the 28ft stride is largely myth, it was never measured at that distance. The one time it was measured, it rated at between 25 to 26ft, after the Lawrence. The earliest recording of 28ft came in the Thoroughbred Record in 1920, but that was never corroborated. All the bios except for maybe one record 25 plus. A stride too long is detrimental to stride time which again is detrimental to acceleration. A horse would need a long stretch and high momentum to catch swifter front runners. Ridan (or was it Nadir) actually had a measured 28ft stride, but that horse lost many races to the shorter Kelso. Native Dancer, alleged to have had a 28 footer, won 20 of 21, but won many by small margins. There is an optimum stride length that maximizes efficiency with stride time, and that range is in the 25 ft domain, just where ManoWar's was. The horse had great acceleration for the short runs, and strides long enough to handle longer distances. The 28ft measure at Kentucky Horse Park is largely speculation, based on uncorroborated writings. ManOWar had the perfect balance, excellent distance per stride without decay to acceleration, a highly efficient design. sec
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
I've read a lot of comments/arguments under both Man o' War and Secretariat. I cannot speak to non-American horses, as I am un familiar with them.
I feel that Man o' War is the greatest Thoroughbred in American racing history. In setting numerous records (breaking one by 6 whole seconds!) Man o' War was running on slower tracks and was never fully extended. It is common knowledge that he finished almost all of his races under hard pull from his jockeys. He had an incredible 28-foot stride, which is part makes him truly the original BIG RED. At the end of his career, the only horses willing to enter a race against him were Sir Barton and Exterminator (who was scratched from the race and ran on another track that same day). So what does that say about the connections of Exterminator thinking their chances really were?
Nothing could stop Man o' War. Sprint. Distance. His competitor in the Lawrence realization may have been outclassed, but that 100 length win was under tight rein.
Even as a 2-year old, MoW was giving weight to his competition, carrying higher weights that most modern races are ever asked to carry in a race.
His accomplishments simply cannot be denied,.
Added 12 years ago by Emerald01, 1 point
I know if you look at times secretariat seems faster but mow was never ever even close yo fully extended, the tracks in 1919 and1920 were not nearly as fast and even though he didn't win the triple crown he beat sir barton by 17 lengths easy. He set 3 world recordsat least 6 track records, lowered a track record by 6 seconds and won a race by over 100 lengths. He only lost once and that was because he was facing the wrong way whenvthe starting bell rang and he still almost won! Only a true champ can do that. Im not saying that secretariat wasn't one of the best cause he was om just saying i think mow was better but of course we'll never really know
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
i think that if you google manowar secretariat there is a paper there that goes through all of that, secretariat and manowar revisited; and dont forget the work by charles justice, a good exploration of American thoroughbreds, and of course the work by randall and morris, A Century of Champions. In the paper referenced, Time is the dependent variable, Foal Count, a proxy variable, the independent.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
I'm sorry, I'm no mathmetician. Can you explain your study to me in layman's terms? I understand that you found times improved an average of 4 seconds in the Derby between 1920 and 1973, and you estimate that horses contributed to this by 52%. How did you set up your formula, what exactly are the dependent and independent variables? Thanks for your time!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Also, peruse the Greatest Horse Controversy by Charles Justice. His analysis was far more detailed and he asserted that tracks didn't change all that much over time. Equipment contributed the most to change. When Fuestal made his 1/5th remark, it is not known what tracks he was referring to for all tracks vary not only in surface and consistency but also in design. My study looked at two specific tracks, Churchill Downs and Belmont for the years mentioned and for those tracks approx 2 seconds accounted for all factors other than the horse for 10 furlongs (at CD) and 3 seconds for 12 furlongs (at Belmont). Unfortunately this study lacked the ability to disaggregated the non-equine factors.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Horses that ran after 1973 cannot be accounted for in my study because they were not included. Still, we must distinguish between average finishing times and particular finishing times. Thru 1973 particular finishing times can be estimated within the parameters of my study, and thus actual finishing times compared. This is an exercise in handicapping. As for Farley, I believe he took the 1/5th mark from Fuestal, MOWs trainer, who speculated on this. I found Fuestal's remark in commentary. For my estimates, I used actual data. On average, most of the improvement on performance can be traced to better finishers from the years 1920 to 1973. There may be cases where an unusually slow pace can cloak an off track, and that may disrupt estimates. This is a question I raised with Count Fleet, Steve Davidowitz concurring.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
@guest: I respect your work with regards to Man o' War vs. Secretariat, but I must disagree with you. If tracks, shoes, equipment, etc. only contributed to a 2 second difference, horses like Spend a Buck and Gato Del Sol would've beaten Triple Crown winners Omaha and Gallant Fox. According to Walter Farely, tracks improved by 2 seconds through the mile, meaning Kentucky Derby times improved by 2 1/4 seconds based on tracks alone.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Secretariat , ManOWar, and Citation bring the best and worst out of us. All the poles of so called experts are built on speculation, opinion, and fixed memories of particular performances that left impressions on observers. State culture plays a role as well, for instance, the adulation of ManOWar in Kentucky in distinction to that of Secretariat in New York. Contrast this to the following of Citation in California. Kentucky Horse Park (KHP)is a monument to ManOWar just as Belmont Park is the same to Secretariat. In a similar way the Blood-Horse publication out of Kentucky competes with the New York's Daily Racing Form (DRF) for communities. All are influenced by the cultures from which they arise. The old timers referenced in one list could easily be countered by a list of old timers in another. Fixed allegiances are difficult to break. For every Sylvester Veitch is a Holly Hughs, both Hall-of-Fame trainers who 'saw them all', yet both with differing opinions as to what they saw. For every Ed Bowen, writer and editor for Blood-Horse, is a Joe Hirsch, the late writer and chief-editor for the DRF, both of high distinction yet with differing opinions when it came to 'the best'. For every Phil Georgeff or Tommy Trotter, etc, can be found an Allen Jerkins, Hall-of-Fame (HOF) trainer, or an Eddie Arcaro, HOF jockey, who both had experiences and judgments countervailing the former. Add Charles Hatton (who 'saw them all'), Andy Beyer, handicapper and co-developer of the respected Beyer Figures, Steve Davidowitz, Teddy Cox, Mike Casale, and others to that list. And finally, the Blood-Horse panel of seven which found both Secretariat and ManOWar tied for first, both receiving 3 votes, but differing by one at place giving ManOWar the edge. Hardly a consensus.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
commentators who assert that ManOWar faced competition on par with the runners of 1973. This is not correct. Taking a quote from “A Century of Champions”, a work by Randall and Morris who in 1999 transformed data compiled by Timeform modeling into book form, this text said in regard to ManOWar: “A more rational appraisal, in light of the undoubted increase in competitiveness of Stateside racing since his day, must place 'the horse' (ManOWar) on a slightly lower pedestal, but there remains no doubt of his greatness”. This statement corroborates my work (www.truevine.net/~sec@truevine.net/Legends/) completed some years ago that found similar conclusions. In that work I found that the average finishing times of Kentucky Derby winners decreased by as much as 4 seconds between 1920 and 1973. Of those 4 seconds, 2 could be attributed to the horse alone, the remainder to all other factors, improved track surfaces, lighter equipment, training, etc.... The improved specimens can be traced not only to better nutrition but to influential blood lines imported into the states from Europe, lines which included but are not limited to the potent sires Bull Dog and Nasrullah (traceable to Nearco and Phalaris), and the highly influential broodmare sire Princiquillo. According to Randall and Morris American horses achieved parity with their European counterparts in the 1960s and forged ahead in the 70s in their golden age of racing.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Citation's OWN JOCKEY, Eddie Arcaro said Secretariat was the better horse so THAT abrutly ends any discussion regarding Citation vs. Secretariat! In fcat, Arcaro stated Secretariat was the greatest race horse he ever saw...period! Rather convincing since he rode BOTH Citation and Kelso!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 5 points
Actually, Sylvestor Veitch called Man o' War better. Read comments from articles on Secretariat in The DRF and you will find old time horsemen who called Man o' War better. True, not many were quoted at the time, but I can give you a list of MANY who called Citation better than Secretariat, including Phil Georgeff, Tommy Trotter, Elmer Polzin, Warren Brown, and Peter Winnants. And Man o' War was nearly universally acknowledged as the better horse by those who saw both him and Cy. I have personally asked Ed Bowen this question, and he said not many experts who saw both were searched out, but he was sure many felt that way. That arguement just doesn't hold up.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
Nice try but VIRTUALLY EVERY great American racing anlyst who saw Man o' War and Secettariat race stated that Secretariat was, indeed, the greater horse INCLUDING the iconic Charles Hatton and Hollie Hughes. Alos, please don't mention Sir Barton as your defense beacuse he was "crawling" halfway to his grave when he raced against MOW. You can "spin it" all you want but Secretariat was the faster horse...case closed!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 3 points
Don't even TRY to call Secretariat greater than Man o' War based on times. Tracks are 2 seconds faster today through the mile; even faster after that. MOW also ran on steel shoes, which were inferior to the aluminum shoes in Sec's day, and had to contend with the inferior nutrition of the day. Adjust MOW’s times 2-4 seconds (depending on distance) and most of them are better than Sec's. Plus, MOW did this carrying more weight (Let's see what Sec would do with 138 pounds: he never carried more than 124.) MOW set more records than Sec, by bigger margins than Sec, some of which stood longer than Sec's, despite the improvements in track conditions which have not significantly improved since Sec's time. Yes, Sec beat more older horses, including Riva Ridge. But MOW beat Sir Barton, who was better than all of them according to The Blood Horse. And he did this by seven lengths with a bowed tendon and a thrown shoe. This is according to Dorothy Ours' biography. MOW didn't race in the Kentucky Derby because Sam Riddle thought it was too long so early in the spring. If the Triple Crown had existed then, Riddle would have let MOW run, as he let his son, War Admiral. (The Triple Crown was not acknowledged until after MOW) Experts from The Blood Horse and The Associated Press call MOW the greatest. And let's remember that MOW was never fully extended, never asked to give his best, and usually held back. The only race MOW lost was because he was in wrong direction at the start and then blocked. In his only challenging race against John P. Grier, MOW broke from a muddy spot in the track and almost fell but still won. This is also from Dorothy Ours' book. MOW proved himself dominant under inferior conditions, heavier weights, while never being extended. We can only imagine what he could have achieved in Sec's day.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
great horse...suspect owner...but he was a product of his times...one reason its near impossible to compare horses from different decades....also..ones that run on different surfaces...conformation, training, health, jockey issues..and so much more need to be considered....
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, -1 points
Both "Big Red's" are absolutely SPECTACULAR horses and we will never know for sure who was better. Judging race horses in different era's is an extremely difficult task, and most likely virtually impossible. However, I will say that similar to the previous post, the ONLY possible way to seriously judge horses from different eras are their racing times. While track conditions, handicaps, training methods, etc. also cloud this approach, what better possible methodology can we utilize? Won/Loss records appear to be rendered irrelevant because of the various levels of distorted competition so what baramoter can we really use to stake our claims other than official times. Human racing records (Olympics and otherwise) are the basis for rating the fastest runners ever, and since horses are likewise racing against each other, this may be the only true benchmark for this seemingly monumental conundrum. Personally, saying which horse is the greatest ever may be a futile effort. While I still strongly feel Sec is the top all-time horse, my 5 greatest "FLAT RACING" horses ever (not to insult Arkle and Red Rum enthusiasts) include Secretariat, Sea Bird II, Shegar, Man o' War and Spectacular Bid AND YOU CAN MOST LIKELY PLACE THEM IN ANY ORDER!!! Best wishes to all!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 1 point
If theres one horse to touch Secretariat,its this one despite times.He had a nervous trainer and ran in a different era.Put him in the 1970's and it would have been close,very close.Both amazing horses.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Guess what here are the records of times. You do the math for yourselves . . .
Man o war Secretariat
6 furlongs 1:11 1/5 1:09 4/5
1 mile 1:35 4/5 1:33 2/5
1 1/8 1:49 1/5 1:45 2/5
1 1/4 2:01 4/5 1:59 2/5
1 1/2 2:28 4/5 2:24
Now you tell me? Who was faster . .
Exactly . . . Secretariat.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Man O'War greatest American racehorse of the 20th century by a mile. All Secretariat would have seen of him was his rear end disappearing in the distance.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -13 points
I would put Man o' War at #3, behind Citation. As great as this stallion was, you have to win the Triple Crown to solidify your credentials. I do not believe the story that his owner kept him out of the Kentucky Derby because it was too long to run that early in the season for that young of a horse. As a 2-yr old, his owner ran him in the much longer Belmont in early June. I think he was probably under the weather prior to the Kentucky Derby that year, and his owner kept him out because he would not accept anything but a win. If Secretariat had the same owner, he wouldn't have run in the four races where he was sick and his record would've been 16/17. But Man o' War was as physically imposing and gifted as Secretariat, set 3 world records, and probably had a 20+ lb. heart. Great, great horse.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
I guess you know more about racing than Charles Hatton and Eddie Arcaro who both INSISTED "Sec" was the greatest ever. As a side note, Hatton SAW Man 0' War race and Acaro RODE Ciiation...makes you wonder how impressive "Sec" really was if he could sway those two immortal racing psople his way? Hey, like I previously stated, the ttle of "greatest ever" is ridicuously subjective and horses such as Man o' War, Citation, Kelso, Sea Bird, Secretariat, Phar Lap, Spectacular Bid (please don't forget that wonder horse), Ribot, etc. could all stake claims as the greatest.....but you have to admit....it is sure a lot of fun debating it...no hard feelings!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 1 point
Man O' War would have whupped Secretariat's ass running backwards.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, -12 points
when he was three, he was handicapped with as much as 138 pounds in races, giving away as much as 32 pounds to other horses, few horses ever carried that much at any age as he did at that age. Has set record in the 1920's that still stand today. Remarkable horse
Added 14 years ago by guest, 0 points
The original great...won 20 of 21 races and the race he lost was by a single head and was rumored to be due to a starter (no starting gates at the time) error and he was extremely late off the line as a result....would have been the first triple crown winner easily had his owner not kept him out of the derby...sired many legendary horses including war admiral a triple crown winner
Added 14 years ago by guest, -2 points
Another of the all-time greats and rightly deserves his place in this list of equine champions
Added 14 years ago by jaxartes, 0 points
4.
Ribot
This Italian horse raced in Europe in the 1950's and remained unbeaten in 16 races. He raced as a 2-year old, 3-year old and as a 4-year old and nothing could ever get near him. Ribot won two Prix de l'arc de Triomphe's in Paris and came over to Britain to win the prestigious King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes. He was effective on any surface and was as tough as teak. Ribot can most definitely be classed as one of the greatest racehorses of the 20th century.
957 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 20 comments
Comments:
Raced against weak opposition, but a very good horse.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 0 points
Great horse, but not the best. That distinction belongs to Sea Bird II. Dancing Brave, Mill Reef, Nijinsky, Sea the Stars and Frankel were all better than Ribot.
Added 10 years ago by guest, -8 points
charwoody you said substandard opposition. try explaining that please. This would be fun if he knew what he was talking about.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 1 point
He had versatility over distance, and in all conditions that few great horses had
Added 10 years ago by guest, 3 points
Unquestionably one of the greatest racehorses who ever lived. Whether or not he was the best is a matter of opinion. How would he have coped with the likes of Secretariat, Sea Bird II, Man O' War, Citation ? I never saw Ribot race, but I have no doubt that he was a truly brilliant racehorse.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Probably the only racehorse capable of giving Sea Bird a race. Ribot was, without doubt, a truly sensational thoroughbred who possessed such brilliance that there wasn't a horse who could get anywhere near him for the three seasons he stayed in training. Unquestionably one of the all -time greats.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Fabulous racehorse who has few if any peers. His unblemished 16 race unbeaten record speaks for itself.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Ribot would have beaten most ,if not all , of the horses on this list, he really was that good. People fail to realise how difficult it is to remain unbeaten over 3 seasons. Only the truly great horses are able to accomplish this feat, and Ribot was most definitely one of the true greats of thoroughbred racing.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
A fabulous racehorse with a perfect record which very few other racehorses can lay claim to. Would definitely be in the top 5 of any list of all time greats.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Awesome 10 and hard to dispute...let's make it top 12 because Spectacular Bid and Sea the Stars should also be part of any "greatest horse" list.
Added 13 years ago by bigred, -3 points
The 10 greatest racehorses of all time, in no particular order?
Secretariat
Sea Bird II
Man O' War
Ribot
Eclipse
Phar Lap
Citation
Brigadier Gerard
Native Dancer
Ruffian
Well that would be my idea of the 10 greatest racehorses of all time.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -12 points
You cannot knock an unbeaten record of 16 wins stretching over three seasons. None of the top 20 horses on this list can match that. Lammtarra was unbeaten but only ran four times. Ribot was a truly great racehorse, there can be no doubt about that. Definitely in the top 5 of all time. Eclipse must also be considered as one of the greatest horses ever.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
Ribot's achilles, as most point out, was the "mid twins". 'nough said.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Well said!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
It is impossible to find fault with this great horses's unbeaten record of 16 wins. The reason that Ribot has not received the credit he so rightly deserves is due to the fact that he raced in an era when televised racing did not have the global impact that it has today. If Ribot was racing today he would have achieved the status of an equine superstar.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
Ribot was a barrel- chested racehorse and they just didn't come any tougher than this fella. Nothing fazed him and he won on all types of going, the mark of a great racehorse. Definitely in the top three greatest European racehorses of the Twentieth Century.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
What a ridiculous comment by charwoody. There can be no doubt whatsoever that Ribot was a truly great racehorse,his unbeaten record is testament to this.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Absolutley Great horse but not the greatest.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
I respect your opinion, charwoody, but Ribot was a truly great horse. You cannot remaine unbeaten in 16 race over 4 seasons on all types of surface and not be a great horse. His wins in England and France adds testament to this assertion.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
As good as Ribot was there are many thoroughbreds who,IMO, were far superior to him. The quality of opposition that Ribot defeated was substandard and I believe he has been vastly overrated.
Added 14 years ago by charwoody, -3 points
5.
Citation
1948 Triple Crown Champion. Rated "best three year old ever" by Eddie Arcaro. Won 27 of 29 at three and could have won the other two but was held back. Defeated the two horses he lost to above in later races. Won 16 in a row. Could run on any kind of track. Ranked "a pound better than Secretariat" by Richard Stone Reeves the famous equine painter who knew all the horses.
943 points - added 15 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
His jockey rode whirlaway and citation, he said citation was better
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
Acaro actually stated that Kelso was the best he ever rode. "I believe Kelso was the best horse I ever rode," Arcaro said. "He was Horse of the Year five straight years (1960-64), and that takes a lot of doing. And he hooked everybody, every place, on every kind of racetrack. He just was the best horse. Sprint, go a distance, run all day, He could do it all."
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Interesting comment considering his OWN JOCKEY, Eddie Arcaro, stated Secretariat was, unquestionably, the greatest horse he EVER saw including his two great horses Citation and Kelso!
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 4 points
Second best American racehorse of the 20th century behind Man O' War. That horse in third place 2furlongs behind is poor, tired, Big Red.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -16 points
I would put Citation #2 on this list. Won 19 of 20 races as a 3 yr. old, all against top competition. Won Kentucky Derby by 3-1/2 lengths, Preakness by 5-1/2, and tied the stakes record in the Belmont. Set world records as 4-5 year old.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Probably should be top 5 and easily placed over Zenyatta.
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 0 points
Arcaro said Citation & Kelso was the best he ever rode & Secretariat best he ever seen & fastest.
Added 14 years ago by rscarbro48, 1 point
6.
Kelso
1960-1964 Horse of the Year, five time Jockey Club Gold Cup winner for 2 miles against the best horses in the world. Still holds record for 2 miles and also holds record for 1 1/2 miles on turf at 2:23 4/5 faster than Secretariat's Belmont, carried over 130 lbs 24 times. Handicap Triple Crown winner. Won 39 of 63, placing in the money 54 times. Ranked best horse of any age by Eddie Arcaro who rode two Triple Crown winners, Citation and Whirlaway. Not to take away from other greats, Secretariat, Man O War or Citation, Kelso proved himself for six years against the 60,000 throroughbreds in the world by becoming the highest money winner. No other horse in history duplicates Kelso's record.
917 points - added 15 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
I am British and I remember watching Kelso winning the Washington D.C, International in 1964. He was a magnificent racehorse.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 15 points
C Hanford's training philosophy of racing Kelso at 6 and 7 furlongs in May and June just to get him both mentally and physically fit (against top sprinters) is not understood today. And while it compromises his win percentage, it also gave longevity to a most intelligent racehorse (gelding).
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Oh dear! Kelso #18! Black Caviar, who up to this time of writing (6/22/12) has beaten mostly unknowns in the racing backwater of Australia, is #10 and Kelso, KELSO!, is #18. This is beyond wrong.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 45 points
#24 you must be joking! Kelso should be in the top 10. How many horses have won 39 races!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 24 points
does not belong down here...top 5 all time easily...won consistantly for years and years...
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, 16 points
Arcaro said Citation was best rode & seen as a 3 year old. Kelso best rode & seen as a 4 yr. old in 1966 & also said Kelso could beat Citation easily. Said in 1996 rated Secretariat best he ever seen.
Added 14 years ago by rscarbro48, 3 points
Tuirf courses are faster than dirt. Hawkster has the record on turf in 2:22 4/5. Again, Arcaro said Secretariat was best he ever seen &
Citation & Kelso best ever rode! With all due respect the facts are not right here.
Added 14 years ago by rscarbro48, 3 points
7.
Nijinsky
894 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
Re Nijinsky and Carbine: this list is not about stud records. As its title states explicitly, it's about RACE records. Using a stallion's success at stud as a criterion in determining “The Best RACEhorses of All Times” is irrelevant - and unfair to mares and geldings. Nijinsky and Carbine were great RACEhorses and deserve consideration on this list based on their race records. Their subsequent success at stud doesn't change their race records one iota.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 22 points
There was one horse that had a better stud record, Research Carbine.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -25 points
Piggott definitely to blame for Nijinsky's Arc defeat? Identical waiting tactics had been employed for success at Epsom and Ascot. And, of course, Nijinsky had suffered a serious attack of ringworm before he was nursed home in the St Leger, probably having a much harder race than Piggott's artistry made it look, because the colt lost more than two stone after the race. So if anyone HAS to be blamed (and I don't think anyone should be) it should perhaps be O'Brien, who admitted after the Arc that he had not realised how much the ringworm had taken out of Nijinsky and that the race probably came too soon after the Leger.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
The last horse to win the English Triple Crown in 1970. That feat will NEVER be achieved again because owners and trainers tend to shun the St Leger as a target now. In any case Nijinsky was a very special horse and should never have been defeated. His jockey Lester Piggot was definitely to blame for his defeat in the 1970 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe when he was just beaten by Sassafras. Why his connections then decided to run Nijinsky in the Champion Stakes shortly afterwards,where he was again beaten, this time by Lorenzaccio, is a complete mystery to me. Nijinsky had a very tough campaign as a 3-year old ,he was on the go from April until October, fully 6 months. Perhaps those involved with Nijinsky thought he was a machine and not flesh and blood.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Surle in the top 15 racehorses of all,close to the very top.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
In pure statistical analysis the horse of the century .Imagine winning the triple crown,Irish Derby and King George in one season-something unequaled till today.Nijinsky would surely have added the Arc to his booty but for facing an attack of ringworm..
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
ran over all distances, at stud he wassecond to none
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
8.
Seattle Slew
Seattle Slew was the 1977 Triple Crown winner and only triple crown winner that had been undefeated prior to winning the crown.
890 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 10 comments
Comments:
Slew's Fractions were better than Secretariat's...and he was only extended a couple of times-held under a pull almost all the time.Like Man O' War,who was Never extended.
Added 8 years ago by guest, -2 points
The post second from the bottom here under the great Seattle Slew hails him as “The ONLY undefeated Triple Crown Winner in history.” The English Triple Crown (2,000 Guineas, Epsom Derby and St. Leger) was so named long before our Triple Crown in the U.S., and Ormonde (1886) and Bahram (1935) were not only undefeated when they won the English Triple Crown but, unlike Slew, they retired undefeated.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 10 points
ok guys your talking about big red, no offence but i wouldn't compare her to him, he was just already faster and more distance by just looking at the records
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Genuine "great" horse. Deserves to be higher on this list.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
please remember his girl...landaluce....she (just like ruffian) gave her life on the track...and she was undefeated at the time
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, -1 points
Truely a grat horse and worthy of an even higher spot on this list. Regarding the comparison to Secretariat, Slew falls somehat short because his times for almost every fraction simply couldn't match up to "Big Red" who was the faster horse.
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 5 points
Why is he way down here?! I think he might be better than secretariat by there could be no proving unless they raced against each other and they didn't so definatally one of the best
Added 14 years ago by guest, -2 points
agreed, he was a better horse than secretariat
Added 14 years ago by guest, -6 points
In my opinion the Greatest. The ONLY undefeated Triple Crown Winner in history. And as for breeding how about A.P. Indy and Cigar to mention just a few.
Added 14 years ago by guest, -5 points
was one of two horses to possibly challenge Secretariat the other being Dr. Fager
Added 14 years ago by guest, -6 points
9.
Forego
One of the best racehorses of all times, Forego was voted the Eclipse Award for Horse of the Year for three years straight: 1974, 1975 and 1976. His total lifetime earnings topped $1,900,000.
853 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 11 comments
Comments:
A genuine "great" horse. Deserves to be much higher on this list.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 12 points
I rank Forego as the third greatest horse (American horses only) after Secretariat and Citation.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
WEIGHT is the only factor that remains unchanged in horseracing over the generations. And only the mighty FOREGO could carry the ridiculous numbers to victory so often. He was the greatest
Added 12 years ago by guest, 10 points
Great points regarding Forego's legacy. However, I do believe you do have to also throw Kelso and Man o' War into the American mix. I think it is so sad that Secretariat didn't have a chance to race as a 4 year-old. If you think SEC's 3-year old campaign was unparalleled, his 4-year old campaign would have been absolutely frightening NO MATTER HOW MUCH EXTRA WEIGHT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN SADDLED WITH!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, -1 points
Among American race horses I think Forego deserves to be ranked only behind Secretariat, Citation, and Spectacular Bid. Forego's 1976 campaign is among the greatest ever: he fell a nose short of winning the Handicap Triple Crown and then later won the Woodward Stakes and the Marlboro Cup. Had he not suffered an inflamed ankle he would have won the Jockey Club Gold Cup as the overwhelming favourite. Had he achieved there would be no doubt that he belongs as the 4th greatest American thoroughbred of all time.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
Forego won races from sprints to marathons, while carrying a mountain on his back. No modern horse has carried anything like what Forego routinely carried. He wond the 1976 Marlboro Cup carrying 137lbs and the 1975 Suburban (a mile and half race) carrying 134. Let's see some of the more recent superstars do that.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 8 points
Forego was an awesome horse. It certainly would have been awesome to watch Forego race against Secretariat as 4 and 5 year olds. What many people don't realize is that the comparison to a 3 and 4 year old colt, from an anotomical perspective, is synonymous to a 15 and 21 year old male with the 4 year old much bigger, stronger, and faster. Scary to think that we were all deprived of watching Secretariat as a 4 year old and the unbreakable earth shattering record times he might have continued to set!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 3 points
Defeated champion sprinters JO Tobin and Dr. Patches, both of whom beat Seattle Slew. Beat another 8 or so champion horses and numerous stakes winners over many years. Beat Honest Pleasure in the Marlboro in stupefying fashion. All this on bad legs, carrying Dr. Fager on his back... There may have been a few flat our faster horses on a given day, but no horse had the heart Forego had, and therefore no horse was as favored by people, and still is. I don't know what the "best" horse means, but we all know what the FAVORITE means and -- favored in like 95+% of his 57 races -- WHO it simply has to be!
Added 14 years ago by guest, 3 points
Defeated champion sprinters JO Tobin and Dr. Patches, both of whom beat Seattle Slew. Beat another 8 or so champion horses and numerous stakes winners over many years. Beat Honest Pleasure in the Marlboro in stupefying fashion. All this on bad legs, carrying Dr. Fager on his back... There may have been a few flat our faster horses on a given day, but no horse had the heart Forego had, and therefore no horse was as favored by people, and still is I don't know what the "best" horse means, but we all know what the FAVORITE means and -- favored in like 95+% of his 57 races -- WHO it simply has to be!
Added 14 years ago by guest, 4 points
Actually that was a quote from his trainer about entering him in the Preakness. He was later gelded and returned as Sprint Champion before starting on his Eclipse run. Just happened to mature a little later than Secretariat. It would have been interesting to have seen them run as 4 and 5 year olds.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 2 points
He was a great horse but when he lost to Secretariat in the Derby his owner swore he never race his horse ever again against him.
Added 14 years ago by rscarbro48, -5 points
10.
Dr. Fager
Raced 22 times, won18, two seconds, one third, one disqualification in the Jersey Derby. Elected to the Racing Hall of Fame three years after retirement. He gave you chills from the wind as he raced by.
831 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 14 comments
Comments:
And by the way, Dr. Fager's world record mile of 132 1/5 stills stands today on dirt. It took 29 years for another horse to best it on turf.
Added 7 years ago by guest, 2 points
Dr. Fager was a scary fast racehorse. The only thing that limits his ranking is the fact that he did not run the Triple Crown races. Frankel is touted as the greatest miler by many across the pond, but those who know Dr. Fager know better.
Added 7 years ago by guest, 3 points
Dr. Fager is the only horse to win four end-of-year championship titles in the same year. After his “annus mirabilis” in 1968 the Daily Racing Form poll awarded him: Horse of the Year, Champion Handicap Horse, Champion Sprinter and Champion Grass Horse.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 22 points
Dr. Fager’s 1:32 1/5 world record for 8f (carrying 134 lbs) stood for 29 years. But his 1:20 1/5 Aqueduct track record for 7f (toting 139 lbs) stood for 31 years.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
Re the mentions below of Dr. Fager's fastest mile (1:32.2) versus Frankel's fastest mile (1:37.3) – a 25½ length difference! – you left out another important fact that is even more flattering to Dr. Fager. He carried 134 lbs, and gave his nine rivals between 16 and 24 lbs, while Frankel carried only 126 lbs and met his opponents at equal weights.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 23 points
Not mentioned here, but worth noting: in addition to his dazzling successes on dirt, Dr. Fager also won at the elite level on grass. He won the G1 United Nations Handicap in 1968 defeating, among others: Dual U.S. champion grass horse, dual Washington D.C. International Stakes winner and Daily Racing Form Horse of the Year, Fort Marcy; Kentucky Derby runner-up and third in the Belmont Stakes, Advocator; and Australian champion, dual Cox Plate winner and Caulfield Cup winner, Tobin Bronze.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 32 points
Two more things in comparing Dr. Fager's and Frankel's fastest wins over 8f. (1) Frankel did his on a straight one-mile turf track officially rated good-to-firm. Dr. Fager did his on a one-turn dirt track. So Frankel ran 8f straight. Dr. Fager spent 2f negotiating a 180-degree turn. (2) Queally gave Frankel at least four welts with the whip and showed him the whip over most of the last 3f. Baeza never used the whip or even showed it to Dr. Fager. (Videos of both races on YouTube).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 41 points
Dr. Fager's world record mile of 1:32 1/5 or, converting it to tenths of seconds, 1:32.2, was 5.1 seconds faster than Frankel's fastest mile of 1:37.3. That's a margin of 25.5 lengths!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 38 points
“Dr. Fager's 1968 world record of 1:32 1/5 at Arlington Park near Chicago, the most hallowed standard of time in American racing …” - Steven Crist, NY Times, 4/9/89.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 22 points
Do you really think Dr. Fager would have posted a better time than Prove Outs 2:25.8 IN THE MUD? What are Dr. Fager's world-class 12 furlong times??? Answer: there are NONE! You surely know SEC was ill when he lost the Whitney & Wood (Abscess). At 1 mile the fastest ever...probably. Bewteen 10 & 12 furlongs Secretariat would have BURIED him!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 11 years ago by bigred, -2 points
Did you forget him and then just put him in here?Waaaay underrated. Maybe the fastest American horse ever. Move him up 50 or 60 spots.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Heads up Dr. Fager would win more than Secretariat. Too bad Secretariat didn't win the Wood--forgot to run his race. As he forgot to run his race in the Woodward--and as he forgot to run his race in the Whitney. Also remember, Dr. Fager is the world record holder at a mile. Guess he beats Secretariat 10 of 10 to the slower Secretariat!!!!! Dr. Fager carried larger imposts and ran fantastic times. Secretariat got weight from Onion and Prove Out, and didn't beat them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No way Dr. Fager loses to Angle Light, Onion, Prove Out, Twice 'a Prince, or Master Achiever even ONCE. Much less lose to them two years running.
Furthermore, Secretariat's great competition: Twice A Prince, My Gallant, Our Native doesn't match up with some of the great's competition.
Swaps would have ate Secretariat for lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -16 points
Interesting statement since Secretariat set the 1-1/8 mile WORLD record in 1973 at the Marlboro Cup (1:45-2/5 seconds) and "galluped" to an unfathomable 1:57-4/5 seconds 1-1/4 mile that unofficially ties Spectacular Bid's still standing World Record. Bottom line is to say ANY horse at ANY distance would beat Secretariat 9 out of 10 times borders on insanity!!!!
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 11 points
Would have beat Secretariat at any distance up to 1 1/8 miles--9 times out of 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -15 points
11.
Affirmed
This amazing racehorse had 29 starts, 22 wins, 5 second place wins, and 1 third place win. He earned $2,393,818 during his career.
776 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 3 comments
Comments:
Seattle Slew was four when he beat Affirmed. One of those times Affirmed's saddle slipped. Slew lost that race to Exceller. Affirmed was only a three year old and had run in the Triple Crown with no easy races facing Alydar each time. Then he also ran and won the Jim Dandy and next in the Travers which he lost to Affirmed due to disqualification. He had a very busy schedule before the confrontation with Seattle Slew. How was he then expected to be at his best? Ridiculous when you consider he also ran hard and often his two year old season (five times against Alydar) and six times in his three year old year BEFORE the Derby. His four year old season was better than Slew's. Slew did very well in the breeding shed but his best son, A.P. Indy, was also Secretariat's grandson. Affirmed did not do as well but still had many grass stars, including Flawlessly.
Affirmed won his Triple Crown beating great horses like Alydar. Slew beat Run Dusty Run who was not in Alydar's league.
Affirmed is underrated IMO.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
No as good as Frankel
Added 12 years ago by guest, -53 points
Seattle Slew tattooed him both times they met.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 7 points
12.
Count Fleet
749 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
The first horse Frank Wright compared Secretariat to, moments after he had completed his rout of the Belmont Stakes, was … Count Fleet! Wright, a trainer and erudite TV analyst, was part of the TV team covering the Belmont. As members of that team struggled to put into words what they had just witnessed, Wright said: “Count Fleet, Man o’ War, and compare him to all the great ones, and he certainly deserves it … what an incredible effort.” Wow! Wright obviously thought very highly of The Count.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 6 points
Ranked #5 on The Blood-Horse magazine’s Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century, behind only Man o’ War, Secretariat, Citation and Kelso. That’s rarefied company – the elite of the elite.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 25 points
Count Fleet was America’s Champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1942, winning 10 of 15 starts (4 seconds, 1 third). He won the Champagne (8f) at Belmont by six lengths in 1:34 4/5 – a stakes and track record and the fastest mile by a juvenile to that time. His Champagne time would remain unchallenged for 34 years until surpassed by Seattle Slew. He then won the Pimlico Futurity (8.5f) by five lengths in equal track record time, won Pimlico’s Walden (8.5f) by 30 lengths and was assigned an unprecedented 132 lbs in the Experimental Free Handicap. In six starts at three he was not only undefeated, he was untouchable. He won the KY Derby by three lengths, the Preakness by eight and the Belmont by 25. This would remain the record winning margin in the Belmont until Secretariat 30 years later. Count Fleet was named Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and Horse of the Year in 1943, receiving 135 of the 143 votes for the sport’s ultimate honor.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 36 points
“He was a kind of a freak horse. He could do anything. He could go to the front, come [from] behind, and run all day. Run in the mud. It didn’t make any difference.” - Count Fleet’s jockey, Johnny Longden, on ESPN’s Jewels of the Triple Crown, uploaded to YouTube 4 Aug 2006.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 20 points
Sham, Desert Orchid, and Yeats are better than Count Fleet? Give me a break.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
#30....no way! Count Fleet is one of the fastest and under rated horses of all-time. On a bad day, should at least be in the top 20.
Added 13 years ago by Dannykeith46, 19 points
13.
Dahlia
Rarely has one horse had an impact in international horse racing comparable to this great mare. Before the Breeders’ Cup, the Dubai World Cup and the Japan Cup made multi-hemispheric horse traveling a reality, Dahlia was a one-horse road show. And what a show! She won G1s in five countries (France, Ireland, England, Canada and the US); the first horse to do so. She was the first mare to top $1 million in earnings. She won down the 5f straight course at Deauville and won multiple G1s from 10f to 12f, racing clockwise and anti-clockwise, defeating Derby winners and Arc winners. She was the UK Horse of the Year at three and four and earned divisional champion honors in Europe, Ireland and the US. There have been few greater female thoroughbreds than Dahlia at her best!
743 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
In 1953 U.S. thoroughbred racing introduced the annual honor, Champion Turf Horse. Each year it was awarded to the best horse racing on grass in America, regardless of gender. It was not until 1979 that the U.S. industry split this award by gender and introduced separate annual honors, Champion Male Turf Horse and Champion Female Turf Horse. From 1953 to 1979 only one female won the Champion Turf Horse award: Dahlia, in 1974.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 15 points
In all my decades of observing horse racing around the world I have never seen a jockey so confident – and so contemptuous of his opposition! – as Piggott was on Dahlia in winning her second consecutive King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Ascot in 1974. Piggott’s exaggerated look over his left shoulder just inside the 2f marker – and his subsequent looks over both shoulders, while barely shaking the reins at her – spoke volumes for Dahlia’s almost-cruel dominance over her opponents.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
“…she defeated no less than 10 classic-winning colts, including English Derby winners Grundy, Roberto, and Snow Knight; Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe winners Rheingold and Star Appeal, plus the winners of the French and Irish Derbys, the Irish St. Leger, Grand Prix de Paris, and Belmont Stakes. And those are just the classic winners.” - Steve Haskin, BloodHorse.com, 28 July 2009.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 59 points
Saw her win the DC Int'l at Laurel - awesome performance for a 3YO filly. Aussie Billy Pyres rode her. Helluva racehorse at her best!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
Correcting my post below: while Dahlia was the first three-year-old filly to win the Washington DC International she was not the only one. Two years after Dahlia’s feat, Epsom Derby runner-up Nobiliary joined Dahlia as the only three-year-old fillies to triumph in the Laurel showcase. Interestingly, both fillies were bred and owned by Nelson Bunker Hunt and trained by Maurice Zilber.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
She had a long litany of firsts, among them: first (and only) three-year-old filly to win the Washington DC International Stakes; first horse to win consecutive King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes (matched only once since, by Swain); first horse to win consecutive Benson & Hedges Gold Cups (matched only twice since, these days known as the Juddmonte International); first European-based horse to win the Canadian International Stakes; first European-based horse to win the Man o’ War Stakes; and, as mentioned above, first horse to win G1s in five different countries and first mare to top $1 million in earnings.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 61 points
For almost three decades, from 1958 to 1986, the Canadian International Stakes was run over 1 5/8 miles on the Woodbine turf (since 1987, 1 ½ m). Some great horses won it at 1 5/8, notably Secretariat in ’73. But Dahlia’s time in winning it the following year (2:40:00), coming from 21 lengths behind what Sports Illustrated called “a fairly slow pace,” was the fastest of those 29 editions of Canada’s most prestigious international thoroughbred event, 1.8 seconds faster than Secretariat’s time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 30 points
14.
Mill Reef
738 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
Brilliant horse with an incredible acceleration! I don't understand why you wouldn't put him in the top 10!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Not very big,but my word what a fantastic racehorse he was. I certainly take issue with the last contributor, I would rate Mill Reef at number 7 in a list of the best European racehorses of the 20th century behind Sea Bird, Ribot, Dancing Brave, Shergar, Nijinsky and Brigadier Gerard. There is no doubt in my mind that Mill Reef was top class.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
As good as Mill Reef was, he shouldn't be as high on this list as he is. There were many better European champions than Mill Reef. Sea Bird, Dancing Brave, Nijinsky, Ribot, Shergar, Sea the Stars and Brigadier Gerard to name a few.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
The best post-war British middle distance racehorse ever who could conquer the best of opposition by superlative margins on any type of going and win in any distance.Sea the Stars was more talented but could not cope on soft going or Dancing Brave or Brigadier Gerard for that matter.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
15.
Shergar
731 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 15 comments
Comments:
I'm afraid Shergar is vastly overrated on the basis of what he actually achieved on the racecourse. Yes, he was an emphatic winner of the Epsom Derby, but let's be honest the opposition was very poor. Shergar apart, the 1981 Derby field was one of the weakest since 1950. Shergar's limitations were exposed when he contested the St Leger, where he was soundly beaten. I was shocked and angered when he was kidnapped and killed by the IRA scum.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Shergar should be a lot higher because he was one of the best horses that i have ever heard of !!! But when he was kinapped on February 8, 1983 no-body ever so him again!! He must be dead now though as it has been over 20 years now and horses usually only live up 2 30 years of age !! ( i have a horse so i should know) xx
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
It's true that Shergar never beat top class opposition, but he could do no more than completely annihilate the opposition in his Derby victory. The only horse in the long history of the Epsom Derby to have had the race won when he turned into the straight.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
You've never seen a horse gallop like this fella did when he won the Derby. Scum IRA prevented Shergar from being a champion stallion at stud.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
It is ludicrous to rate Lammtarra as one of the all time greats based on just four racecourse appearances. It seems to me that he was whisked off to stud with great haste at the end of his second season, probably with a view to protecting his stud value as an unbeaten horse.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
Never ran against strong opposition ? Very strange comment , So how do you explain the record breaking time in the Derby ?
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
There is no comparaison with Lamterra who never ran against a strong oppoistion! The three year horses (for instance), who ran against lamterra never proved something as 4 year old!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
the best ever
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
Lammtarra was an undefeated Thoroughbred racehorse who won three Group One races in 1995 and was voted the Cartier Three-Year-Old European Champion Colt. He won the Epsom Derby in record time, the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe more or less from the front . I also watched Shergar an amazing horse one of the best ever , just think Lammtarra was a wonderhorse , to win the Epsom Derby on his first run of the season and broke the track record was truly spectacular.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
I have seen every Derby winner since Psidium in 1961 and I can truthfully say that along with Sea Bird II, Shergar's win was simply jaw-dropping. I would definitely rate Shergar as one of the greatest Derby winners of all time. A truly brilliant racehorse who might have been equally brilliant at stud if he hadn't come to such a tragic end at the hands of the utterly detestable IRA.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
The only British horse that could maybe beat Lammtarra , but I doubt it
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Agree with carolanntee. However Shergar underated. His turn of foot was mind blowing. He was never extended. He deserves his place as number 4
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Shergar was in all honesty the quickest horse in the history of the sport. His turn of foot was frightening. He not only had the ability to win races but also had the ability to canter home a furlong out and still dominate races by 10 lengths, unbeleivable racehorse and in my opinion the 3rd greatest flat racehorse of all time.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
I totally agree with you, my friend, Shergar at his best was a helluva good horse and his annihilation of the 1981 Epsom Derby field will remain forever in the memory of all those who witnessed that scintillating victory.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Should be number 1, have you ever seen his Derby romp. It was the greatest racing preformance in history. His King George and Irish Derby wins also were impossible to comprehend. Undoubtably the better than 24 of the 25 above. The only horse better than him was Sea Bird II and maybe Brigadier Gerrard. Anyone that says Secretariat was the best is an idiot.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
16.
sea the stars
728 points - added 15 years ago by guest - 12 comments
Comments:
Good horse, but a long way short of the best horses on this list. There are many horses below STS on this list who are better than him. Much too highly rated here.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Only ever met poor opposition and even then he made hard work of beating them. Vastly overrated.
Not one of the great racehorses
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
The best way to assess greatness is probably to compare the winning margins of a racehorse against rivals at the time, running in the same race on the same track.. Allowance would need to be made for the caliber of the beaten horses, which obviously makes this a very difficult procedure.
Another approach is to consider just the three great American and three great English races, which make up the Triple Crown in each country and to add in France`s greatest race, the Arc. These races are run over differing distances from the 8 furlongs of the 2000 Guineas to the 15.6 furlongs of the St Leger. America`s Triple Crown races and the Arc are intermediate to this.
Times and distances can be converted to an average MPH figure over the distance. From this there is no evidence to suggest that American tracks are slower than European. On the contrary Epsom Derby speeds are consistently slower, due to the toughness of the course.
It is no surprise that Secretariat at 37.83mph in the Preakness and 37.69mph in the Kentucky Derby both in 1973 is the fastest horse ever on this comparison. The fastest European horse on this basis is Sea the Stars at 37.55mph in the 2,000 Guineas, 36.91 in the Arc but only 34.45 in the Epsom Derby. All were in 2009.
The fastest Canadian horse Northern Dancer ran at 37.5mph in 1964, the same speed achieved by Secretariat in the longer Belmont nine years later. His offspring Frankel ran at 37mph in the 2011 2000 Guineas whilst Seattle Stew managed 37.35mph in the slightly longer Preakness and 36.82mph in the Kentucky Derby. Man O` War in 1020 ran the Belmont at 36.89mph. at a time when speeds were generally lower than today.
What does this prove? Only that it is hard to argue with the greatness of Secretariat
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
His rating here is just about right. A very good horse, but a long way short of the very best.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
we just can't compare all horses in the history of racing since i think each of them ran their share of problems and luck but this little beast Sea The Stars is just made of another metal.u've just got to hear the comments of the commentators of that famous 2009 Arc and you would know HE'S RACING GOD!!!!!!just a champion who can run over any distance from sprint to stayers' race........something out of this world.he stands on that thin line between excellence and perfection.i would never challenge someone saying he's the all time greatest!!!!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
For me the greatest horse I've ever had the pleasure of viewing. Hi win in the Prix du L'arc De Triomphe was probably the greatest victory I've ever seen of any horse. I'd loved to have seen him up against the best in the US......especially on turf. Would have silenced those who feel European horses 2nd best.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
Is anybody heard about " Kincsem " a hungarian race horse.
Just check it out....
Theh best ever was that beast !
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Don't get me wrong, Sea The Stars is a great champion and Yes 'A Horse Of A Lifetime' but anyone who is trying to argue that he is better than Nijinsky, Shergar and Zenyatta are just totally wrong.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
When are American horses going to come over to Britain and race for the Triple Crown? The fact that they don't means that they can never be taken seriously. World records? Of course Americans hold them: they race on oval, perfectly flat, artificial surfaces as opposed to Europe's hugely varied turf courses.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
A very good racehorse - ran 2:26 for the 1-1/2 mile Prix du l'arc De Triomphe. Won all but one race, although running only 6 times as a 3 year old will certainly keep you fit, as compared to the grueling schedule for North American horses. When are European horses going to come over to America and race in the Triple Crown? A quick flight on an Airbus, get over the jet lag, and you should be ready to take on the American competition. The fact that they don't, and the fact that they run just a few races as 3-yr olds, means they can never be taken seriously. Not to mention the fact that none of them are current world record holders at any distance.
Yes a good racehorse, but shouldn't be anywhere on this list. Kelso, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, War Admiral, Spectacular Bid, etc. etc. all should bump any of the non-American horses on this list.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Magnificent horse this Sea The Stars. Dominated everything that was put on his way. His acceleration, his class, he was just too good.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Magnifient horse, I was at Sandown for his eclipse win and he wss fantastic. A bit overatted to be 5th but yes he was a great especially when winning the Arc.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
17.
Damascus
705 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
“ … a demure little horse who goes quietly on parade and handles himself with decorum at the gate. But in the heat of conflict, when his blood is up, he has iron resolution. … he was courage itself.” – From Charles Hatton’s American Racing Manual profile of Damascus.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 12 points
Esteemed US racing writer and author Steve Haskin (BloodHorse.com, 14 July 2009): “Damascus ranks among the greatest horses in racing history, and certainly among the most durable horses ever seen. … the most underrated horse of all time.”
Added 11 years ago by guest, 42 points
Come on! Damascus deserves to be rated much higher than this. He won against the best of his era at 2, 3 and 4. And it was some era: his rivalry with Dr. Fager and Buckpasser is right up there in US racing lore. His last race, when he broke down and had to be eased while attempting to win his second Jockey Club Gold Cup, was the only time he finished out of a place. He retired with a record of 32 – 21-7-3 and $1,176,781 in earnings. Having won three of his four starts as a juvenile, including the Remsen, he went on to have a 3yo campaign that ranks him with the elite of the elite, among his wins the Belmont, Preakness, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Woodward (beating Dr. Fager and Buckpasser by 10 len), Aqueduct Hcp (as top weight against older horses), Travers (by 22 len), American Derby, Dwyer, Bay Shore, etc. His $817,941 earnings as a 3yo stood as the sophomore record until broken by Secretariat. He was both US Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and US Horse of the Year in 1967. A truly fabulous racehorse!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 43 points
18.
Brigadier Gerard
British racehorse only ever beaten once in 17 races and that was over 10 furlongs. Never beaten when racing at a mile.
704 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
Make no mistake about it Brigadier Gerard was a fanastic horse and a great favourite of mine. But what I saw Frankel achieve over the past 3 seasons convinces me that Frankel was superior to BG.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -10 points
Brigadier Gerard lost once at York, when he was reported by his jockey to be suffering from a heavy viral infection. Joe Mercer his regular jockey has said that if Frankel could win at York, he should be rated up there with the Brigadier, whom he always called the Big Fella. Well Frankel did win at York in a faster time than the Brigadier. But, of course, he did not have the Brigadier`s abilty to win at distances all the way from 6 furlongs out to a mile and a half, A relly great horse, perhaps under-rated here because he did not race at Kentucky.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
When Frankel wins 16 races then,and only then, can we talk about Frankel in the same breath as Brigadier Gerard.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
This horse was the best miler of all time without doubt, but he has just lost his crown to Frankel
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel were probably the greatest specialist milers ever seen in the British Isles.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
Certainly one of the greatest milers of all time and such was his undoubted brilliance that he could win at distances far in excess of his optimum trip.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Seeming hiw he was given a rating of 144 and lost once in 17 races he should be at least 10th best of all time.
Added 13 years ago by Charles Olney, 0 points
19.
Zarkava
689 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
Black Caviar does not belong in the same sentence, paragraph, page, chapter or book as Zarkava.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 34 points
I don't know about her being clear of Black Caviar but having both Arcs there's no doubt in my mind she would have beaten Sea The Stars. Probably one of the most underrated fillies of all time
Added 12 years ago by guest, 8 points
Agree with previous comment, Zarkava should be streets clear of Black Caviar.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 29 points
How can Black Caviar be at #10 and Zarkava at #27? Jeeeze! To be sure Zarkava raced only at two and three, but she won all seven of her starts (five G1s and one G3) including winning the Arc as a three-year-old filly. There's an immeasurable qualitative difference between winning fraudulent G1s in Australia and genuine G1s against the best in Europe.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 68 points
Zarkava is the second greatest female horse of all time. Only Zenyatta betters this incredible filly.
Disgrace that she is not top 10.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Superb filly.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 13 points
20.
Spectacular Bid
688 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 8 comments
Comments:
The greatest CA horse ever would've been Flying Paster if Bid didn't rural at four. Paster would've won everything and in record times. Bid beat Paster many times and did it as if he were bored. Bid was NEVER beaten 7f - 11/4! Bid set a track record at the shrine of sprinters Santa Anita and shortly thereafter sets a world record at THE classic distance that has never been surpassed by every great horse to have ever run in history, on any fast track in history. Secretariat's gallop out times' not withstanding. 1 1/2 is a freak distance and he still almost beat Affirmed as a 3 y.o. Please lady's and gentleman, Spectacular Bid was SO good and made things look so easy people really believe it's fair to make a comparison with other horses. And no I'm not a member of the Delp family.
Added 7 years ago by guest, 1 point
Not to speak ill of the deceased, but the only "help" Bid had was his groom, Moe. Bud Delp was a brutally demanding trainer. His horses either stood up to the training or he threw them away. Derby week, Bid worked 1 mile on Sun, galloped 2 miles on Mon & Tues, worked 6f on Wed, galloped 2 miles on Thurs, blew out 2f on Friday, jogged on Derby day. As if that wasn't enough to kill all chance, Delp then put Ronnie Franklin on the horse! Bid's training went like this his entire career. And with all that, he still romped. Moe told me that the pin issue on Belmont was played down. He said the pin was a good 2.5 inches in the sole of Bid's hoof. When pulled out, it bled. The blacksmith had to pare the sole down to the point of oozing blood to get all the infection out. He never should have run. Moe said he was dead lame. They iced his feet and applied Foot Freeze, but in a 1.5 mile race, that only lasts about half the distance.Between Delps total disregard for the horse and Ronnie Frankilin's ignorant riding, it's amazing that Bid was able to ever win a race. Anytime he got beat, it was because he couldn't overcome Delp's training and Franklin's riding. He was truly a super horse and is highly underrated.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
The bid is EASILY a top 5 horse of all time. He had an incredible, unbeaten 4-year old season where he set numerous records carrying high weight and running various distances. He was spectacular!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
easily top 10...one of the best ever
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, 1 point
I am a HUGE Spectacular Bid fan, and while I strongly feel he belongs in the top 5 horses of all-time, he was no Secretariat. Unfortunately for Bid, his ultra-disappointing failure in the Belmont Stakes significantly hurts his legacy. That's just the way it is in American horse racing, and there's nothing you or I can do to change that mindset. Best Wishes
Added 13 years ago by bigred, 2 points
Hey man Spectacular Bid was all round a better horse than Secretariat. Too much hype with Secretariat and overrated.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -16 points
Would have been dog meat to Secretariat, Man O'War,Citation,Native Dancer, Sea Bird, Phar Lap,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
The most complete and arguably the best racehorse to have set foot on the American turf if you analyse his complete career in terms of consistency and ability to perform in all types of going.A champion at 2,3 and 4 which Secretariat or Sea Bird were not.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
21.
Goldikova
This great French mare is still the only horse to win a Breeders’ Cup race three times – the BC Mile in ’08, ’09 and ’10. And she finished third, beaten one length, in the ’11 BC Mile. In her homeland, she won the G1 Prix Rothschild down the Deauville straight mile four years in a row. She won 14 G1s, the most by any mare bred in Europe. And she won G1s, in open company, in France, the US and England. She won every year she raced, 2 through 6, and finished off the board only once in her illustrious career, 27 – 17-6-3, for earnings equivalent of USD7,176,551.
685 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
She was European Horse of the Year (2010), twice European Champion Older Horse (2009 & 2010) and twice U.S. American Champion Female Turf Horse (2009 & 2010).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 9 points
22.
Dancing Brave
682 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 12 comments
Comments:
A rating of 17 is about right for Dancing Brave. Good horse but not one of the all time greats.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
One way of comparing horses from different Continents and different epochs, is to consider the three American and three British Triple Crown races, along with the Breeder`s Cup and the King George VI as well as the Arc. These are probably amongst the 10 most important flat races in the world.
Speeds vary between the courses – the Kentucky Derby and the 2000 Guineas being generally fast races whilst the Derby and St Leger are slower. By awarding 10 points to the horse which showed the highest average speed over the years in each race, and so on down the years, you can develop a comparison Few horses cross the Atlantic. When the 2000 Guineas record holder Rock of Gibraltar did to enter the Breeder`s, he did not win.
Secretariat with unbeaten records in three Triple Crown races naturally emerges as the best ever with 30 points. Second equal with 26 would come Seattle Slew and Dancing Brave. Sea the Stars one of a handful of horses to match Secretariat`s speed on other courses would have 25.
Danedream the German filly, 2012 Arc winner and record holder is at 22 and Nijinsky is at 20. Galileo makes 18 and Northern Dancer thd great Canadian horse who has sired so many fine racehorses and Never Say Die St Leger and Derby winner 17. Man O` War would have scored higher if he had not run the same races as Secretariat, just fractionally slower. Dante the 1945 Epsom Derby record holder and Ribot French double Arc winner each make 15. Brigadier Gerard, Seabird 11 , Mill Reef and many other great horses that won a string of races also fare less wiell under this system, because on the day the races were slower.
No mathematical system is going to convince aficionados of another horse. But this does at leas suggest that Dancing Brave and Sea the Stars should be rated more highly
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
Anyone who witnessed this great racehorse's performance when he won the 1986 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe could only conclude the Dancing Brave was, without doubt, a genuine contender for greatest racehorse of the 20th century. A superstar!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Supersonic! One of the greates racehorses ever to race in Europe.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Dancing Brave should be in the top 5 of all time a simply outstanding racing machine
his Arc win was breath taking
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
Won the 1986 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe as if propelled from a rocket. On THAT performance would have beaten any racehorse.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 7 points
If you want to see finishing speed , watch Lammtarra on utube ( by the way first run of the season tn ''record time'')
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Gave the best ever performance in an Arc win after Sea Bird vanquishing one of the strongest fields with the blistering surge of amissile fired.Would certainly have won the Epsom Deby but for Starkey's waiting tactics .He faced better opposition than any great British middle-distance champion and posessed the greatest finishing speed ever by a British racehorse.Was alos devastating in the Guineas.He however could not relish soft going or stay beyond a mile and a half.To me on the day of the Arc the best European racehorse since Sea Bird .
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Yes,he SHOULD be in the top 10, at least.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Tell me that you're kidding,jeepster! You will NEVER see a horse finish like this great champion did in the 1986 Prix de l'arc de Triomphe. I cannot believe that Dancing Brave isn't in the top 10 in this list.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
Good horse,but there are many better horses on this list.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, 1 point
The best by far, just like ali
Added 14 years ago by guest, 3 points
23.
Pearl Cap
The first three-year-old filly to win the Arc (1931). She beat the best colts in her age group, in what are now G1 races, both years she raced, at two and three. And she scored multiple G1 victories over the best older horses at three. A great filly – one for the ages!
681 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
Pearl Cap’s versatility was impressive. She won what are now Group races at 5.5f, 6f, 7f, 8f (twice), 12f (twice) and 12.5f.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 17 points
Although Pearl Cap is rightly remembered most for her sensationally successful three-year-old campaign it is worth noting that at two she beat colts in the Prix Herod (now Listed), Prix La Rochette (now G3), Prix Robert Papin (now G2) and Prix Morny (now G1).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
Yes, she was the first three-year-old filly to win the Arc. But also at three she won what is sometimes referred to as the French fillies’ Triple Crown: the Poule d'Essai des Pouliches, Prix de Diane and Prix Vermeille (all now G1s). And she beat older horses of both genders in the Arc and the Prix Jacques Le Marois (both now G1s).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 16 points
She also produced 1947 Epsom Derby winner Pearl Diver who, at 40/1, upset boom colt Tudor Minstrel (4th).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
24.
Gladiateur
Thought by many to have been France's greatest thoroughbred, Gladiateur won at the highest level on both sides of the English Channel both years that he raced. He won the English Triple Crown of classics in 1865 as well as France's most prestigious race for three-year-olds, the Grand Prix de Paris. The highlight of his four-year-old campaign was returning to England and winning the Ascot Gold Cup. He retired with a 19 - 16-0-1 record and the unanimous, undying admiration of the French racing public.
678 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Vive le Gladiateur!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
For winning the English Triple Crown he was hailed by his adoring French fans as "The Avenger of Waterloo."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 27 points
25.
Allez France
The toast of French racing in the early 1970s, US-bred Allez France was a G1 winner at two, the French fillies’ Triple Crown winner and Arc runner-up at three, the Arc winner at four, and Prix Ganay winner at four and five. She was France’s Champion Two-Year-Old Filly, Champion Three-Year-Old Filly, Champion Older Mare twice, and Horse of the Year in 1974. She won 13 of her 18 starts in France including eight G1 victories. She beat her great contemporary Dahlia the six times they met on French soil but she could not match Dahlia’s globe-trotting success. Allez France lost all three of her starts outside France (one in England and two in the US).
678 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
26.
Native Dancer
One of the all- time greats and only ever beaten once,and even then was desperately unlucky and should have won.
678 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
the horse showed excellency! he was powerful and full of speed including some stamina. and i don't think it should matter where theses horses listed on here is placed, they all made it and made their names famous, bravo to all these magnificent animals
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
to which big red are you referring
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, 0 points
Far better horse than Big Red and had a much better winning ratio.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
but for a head in the ky derby he was the best ever
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
27.
Buckpasser
675 points - added 13 years ago by guest -
28.
War Admiral
Triple crown winner and offspring of Man O' War
668 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
Brilliant horse but personally feel Seabiscuit was better. Despite the age difference and the race being run to War Admirals favourite conditions, Seabiscuit still beat War Admiral fair and square in the match race.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
I'm actually surprised that War Admiral isn't higher on the list. Perhaps people feel that the son of Man o' War shouldn't be so closely ranked, but War Admiral was an astonishing horse.
Added 12 years ago by Emerald01, 3 points
I say war admiral is better than seabiscuit. He was man o wars best colt i do belive
Added 12 years ago by guest, -3 points
Seabiscuit was good and considered better because he was not thought in the first place to be race horse material! Unlike War Admiral.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
Sorry Seabiscuit lovers. I know Seabiscuit won the great match race. But look at the record. War Admiral was 100 times the better horse. Yet Seabiscuit is ranked higher.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -4 points
Great horse,definatley not the best, Still great
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
29.
Miesque
A dual G1 winner as a juvenile in France, she was that country’s Champion Two-Year-Old-Filly in 1986. At three she won the English 1,000 Guineas and the French equivalent, the Poule d’Essai des Pouliches, before devastating a field of mostly older males in the Breeders’ Cup Mile at Hollywood Park in a track record 1:32 4/5. At four she continued to win at the highest level in France before returning to the US to score another devastating victory in the Breeders’ Cup Mile at Churchill Downs – the first horse to win two BC races. She never finished off the board (16 – 12-3-1) with 10 of her 12 wins being G1s. In her three seasons of racing she won nine end-of-year Champion awards on two continents.
666 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
Not only beloved in France but Miesque is also in the U.S. Thoroughbred Hall of Fame.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
30.
Alleged
665 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
In 2014 Treve joined him as the only two-time Arc winners since Ribot.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 1 point
The only two-time winner of the Arc in the nearly six decades since Ribot did it. Twice the top-rated horse in Europe in the annual International Classification. Twice the top-rated horse in Timeform’s annual rankings. Won nine of his 10 starts. His only “failure” was a second in the St. Leger to Dunfermline whom he then beat comfortably in the Arc. A better record than some above him here.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 31 points
31.
Gallant Fox
665 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
As Gallant Fox left the racetrack and headed for stud, where he would become the only Triple Crown winner to sire a Triple Crown winner (Omaha), The Blood-Horse wrote of him: "Since the retirement of Man o' War no horse has captured the imagination of the American public as has Gallant Fox. After a relatively light campaign as a two-year-old, he swept like a meteor across the racing sky of 1930 and when he was retired for all times after his bloodless triumph in the Jockey Club Gold Cup he was more than a racehorse - he was an institution."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 21 points
Gallant Fox not only won the Triple Crown in 1930, he won every important sophomore Stakes race except the Travers in which, famously, he was runner-up to 100-to-1 shot Jim Dandy. His 10 – 9-1-0 season saw him sweep the Wood Memorial, Preakness, KY Derby, Belmont, Arlington Classic, Dwyer and Lawrence Realization before conquering older foes in the Saratoga Cup and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He retired as a three-year-old with the highest earnings of any thoroughbred to that time, $328,165. In 17 career starts he thus had average earnings per start of $19,303 … a stunning statistic for that time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 18 points
32.
Ormonde
Was there ever a better racehorse, anywhere, than Ormonde? The English-bred colt won at the highest level in his homeland every year he raced (2, 3 and 4) and retired having won all 16 of his starts including the 1886 English Triple Crown. He beat the best horses of his age group and his era, at distances from 6f to 16f, often giving his high-class opponents significant weight advantages.
662 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
33.
Regret
In a short but sensationally successful career, Regret proved to be one of America’s greatest female racehorses. She was unbeaten at two, still the only filly to have won Saratoga’s storied trio of juvenile stakes: the Saratoga Special, Sanford and Hopeful. She beat colts in all three races including that year’s top juvenile male Pebbles. In her first start at three she beat Pebbles again, this time in the Kentucky Derby – the first filly to win the Run for the Roses. In her only other start at three she beat Belmont Stakes winner and champion colt of that year, The Finn, in the Saranac. Thus she was unbeaten at two and three, beat colts in all five starts and defeated the champion colt of each year. She suffered her first defeat, and only off-the-board finish, at four. But she came back to win three of her four starts at five, her only loss being by a nose in the Brooklyn – a race that featured three KY Derby winners and two Horses of the Year, and was run in US record time. No female ever finished in front of her.
661 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
In response to an earlier post here, Regret not only won the KY Derby in her first start at three, she won it in her first start beyond 6f. Astonishing!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 22 points
The legendary Col. Matt J. Winn, longtime President of Churchill Downs who saw each of the first 75 Kentucky Derbies (1875-1949), said in his autobiography that Regret’s win in 1915 made the Kentucky Derby “an American institution.”
Added 11 years ago by guest, 20 points
Exterminator also won the KY Derby in his first start at three.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Sir Barton also won the KY Derby in his first start at three. And he was a maiden to boot!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
She was retrospectively named Champion Two-Year-Old Filly of 1914 and Champion Three-Year-Old Filly AND Horse of the Year in 1915. Amazing filly indeed!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
Not only was she the first filly to win the Kentucky Derby but she did it in her first start as a three-year-old. Somewhat like Lammtarra winning the Epsom Derby in his first start at three. Amazing filly!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 42 points
34.
Round Table
658 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Retired in 1959 as the richest thoroughbred of all time with earnings of $1,749,869 and although best remembered for his dominance on grass (US Champion Turf Horse in three successive years) he also won at the highest level, in record times, on dirt. Had he better handled off tracks he would have been in the Top 10 of all time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 7 points
How can Round Table be rated so low? He won at the highest level every year he raced (2 thru 5) compiling a 66 – 43-8-5 record, became only the third American thoroughbred to top $1 million in earnings ($1.75 million), set or equaled 14 track records and was US Champion Turf Horse in three consecutive years and Champion Turf Horse, Champion Male Handicap Horse and Horse of the Year in 1958. This is the record of a genuine champion!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 27 points
35.
Tudor Minstrel
658 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
His reputation as a great miler rests on only three wins at 8f: the 2,000 Guineas (won by 8 lengths), St. James’s Palace Stakes (only two opponents) and Knights’ Royal Stakes (now the QE II Stakes). In a 10-race career, these are the only wins he had in what are now G1 races. At his two starts beyond a mile he finished a distant fourth behind a 40/1 outsider in the 12f Epsom Derby – and he was a decisively beaten second in the 10f Eclipse Stakes. Notwithstanding his undefeated four starts at two and his brilliant win in the Guineas at three, his career was too short and one-dimensional to rank him in the top 50 racehorses of all time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 36 points
Uh? The post three down says " ... Tudor Minstrel and Man O' War raced in the 1930s and 1940s ..." Man o' War raced in neither decade; he raced in 1919 and 1920.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 21 points
One of the best milers ever seen in Europe.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
A real superstar miler. Unquestionably one of the greatest racehorses ever to grace a racetrack.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
People fail to realise the fact that because horses such as Tudor Minstrel and Man O' War raced in the 1930s and 1940s, they are still regarded as truly great thoroughbreds. Racetracks, and training methods may have changed a great deal in 80 years,but great horses still appear in every era and Tudor Minstrel and Man O'War are no exeptions.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -11 points
Probably the greatest miler to race in Europe in the Twentieth Century,with Brigadier Gerard not far behind.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Brilliant racehorse and regarded by many knowledgeable pundits as one of the greatest European milers.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
36.
Pretty Polly
Irish-bred Pretty Polly was one of the great mares of all time. Her 24 – 22-2-0 record included an undefeated nine-race juvenile season in England when she twice beat top colt St. Amant (who would win the 2,000 Guineas and Derby the next year). At three she won the 1,000 Guineas in record time, the Epsom Oaks and then deprived St. Amant of the Triple Crown by beating him in the St. Leger in record time. Her 15-race win streak ended with a harrowing trip to Paris and a second in the Prix du Conseil Municipal while giving weight to older males. At four she won the Coronation Cup, in record time that stood for 23 years. At five she won the Coronation again but suffered her second defeat when runner up in the Ascot Gold Cup, her last race.
653 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
37.
Kizil Kourgan
Kizil Kourgan was a contemporary of the great English filly Spectre. They raced against each other only once, in the 1902 Grand Prix de Paris - France’s richest and most prestigious race at that time. The result was a decisive victory for Kizil Kourgan. She also won the French fillies’ Triple Crown: the Poule d'Essai des Pouliches (equivalent of the 1,000 Guineas), Prix de Diane (Oaks) and Prix Royal-Oak (St. Leger). In addition to beating the best colts in the Grand Prix de Paris and the Prix Royal-Oak, she did likewise in the prestigious Prix Lupin. Kizil Kourgan was sometimes referred to by the English as “the French Sceptre” – and Sceptre was sometimes referred to by the French as “the English Kizil Kourgan.”
651 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Another misspelling of Sceptre. Whoever keeps misspelling this great filly's name please write 100 times: Sceptre not Spectre. Thank you.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
She also produced the first dual winner of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, Ksar.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
38.
Exterminator
650 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
Very revealing quotes from Knapp and Winn below. This horse, a genuine great, is much underrated!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 22 points
The Binghamton Press, reporting the death of Exterminator on Wed., Sep. 26, 1945: “It was comparatively recently that Colonel [Matt J.] Winn, head of Churchill Downs and an acknowledged authority on horseflesh, ranked Exterminator as ‘the greatest all-around American thoroughbred I ever saw.’ He said he based his choice on ‘speed, courage, stamina, intelligence and perhaps more important, durability’.”
Added 11 years ago by guest, 59 points
Grand old horse who exhibited rare durability and longevity. Won as a two-year-old and as a nine-year-old, and every year in between! Won the KY Derby at three and was U.S. Horse of the Year at seven! Was U.S. Champion Older Male Horse at five, six and seven. Won the then prestigious Saratoga Cup a unique four straight years. The Hall of Fame website, and other sources, suggest his 33 Stakes wins remains a record to this day. Long after Exterminator finally retired, Hall of Fame jockey Willie Knapp, who rode him in his early years and later trained him, said: “When he was at his best Exterminator could have beaten Man o’ War or Citation or Kelso or any other horse that ever lived …” Knapp had a unique credibility in making that comparison to Man o’ War: he was the only jockey to have beaten Man o’ War when he rode Upset to victory in the 1919 Sanford at Saratoga.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 63 points
some folks believe this horse is the reason why MOW was retired....riddle is said he did not wish to face hism
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, 22 points
39.
Spectre
No list of the best ever racehorses is complete without the filly Sceptre very high up. She is still the only three-year-old to win four English classics outright: the 1,000 Guineas, 2,000 Guineas, Epsom Oaks and St. Leger. [Formosa won the same four classics in 1868 but dead-heated in the 2,000 Guineas]. Sceptre finished fourth in the 1902 Derby after being left at the start. Several times she competed in major events one and two days apart, such as the two Guineas, the Derby and Oaks and the Coronation Stakes and St. James’s Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot. A dual Stakes winner at two and a four-time Classic winner at three, she went on to win the Hardwicke, Jockey Club, Duke of York and Champion Stakes at four.
649 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Auto-correct?
Added 10 years ago by guest, 1 point
This horse's name is misspelled in the headline. It is Sceptre (not Spectre).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 2 points
40.
Equipoise
648 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
“Ranked by many as a greater race horse than Man O’ War.” – George Kirksey, United Press correspondent, reporting on Equipoise’s win in the Arlington Hcp on 22 July 1933, as published in the Pittsburgh Press (and elsewhere) on 23 July 1933.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 20 points
I can’t find any film of Equipoise’s world record mile but the official chart of the race said he “went to the front easily and had something to spare.” John Hervey, the famous racing historian of that era, wrote that not only had Equipoise won “without having been asked for his best” but that “non-official watches [showed] even faster time than that announced.” It sounds like a much easier win than Queally showing Frankel the whip over most of the last 3f of the Guineas and whipping him at least four times.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 17 points
Re the post immediately below: Equipoise's world record mile was run on a one-turn dirt track where he spent 2f negotiating a U-turn. Frankel did his down a straight one-mile turf track. Big advantage going straight versus going around an oval's turn.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 25 points
Equipoise's world record mile of 1:34 2/5 or, converting it to tenths of seconds, 1:34.4, was 2.9 seconds faster than Frankel's fastest mile of 1:37.3. That's a margin of 14.5 lengths! And Equipoise ran his fastest mile 79 years earlier than Frankel ran his!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 30 points
LOL, yes I love that song.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
Perhaps the only horse on this list celebrated in the lyrics of an iconic Broadway musical, the Damon Runyon-inspired “Guys And Dolls.”
And just a minute boys /
I’ve got the feedbox noise /
It says the great grandfather /
Was Equipoise
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
Best remembered as America’s handicap champion of the early 1930s, Equipoise was also an outstanding juvenile and was named co-champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1930, with Jamestown. Among his eight wins that year was the prestigious Pimlico Futurity in which he was left at the start but was still able to beat illustrious peers Twenty Grand and Mate. His jockey Sonny Workman is widely reported as saying “it may have been the greatest race anybody ever saw.” Sickness cut short his three-year-old campaign after he finished fourth in the Preakness (then the first leg of the Triple Crown). But he bounced back to dominate the handicap ranks at four, including setting a world record of 1:34 2/5 for 8f at Arlington Park. He was named both Champion Older Horse and Horse of the Year that year, 1932, was given the same two honors again in 1933 and was named Champion Older Horse yet again in 1934. Heck of a racehorse!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 43 points
41.
Whirlaway
644 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
Joe Palmer wrote of Whirlaway in The Blood-Horse: "He carries in his armament the deadliest weapon a thoroughbred can have - an annihilating burst of speed which he can apparently turn on at any stage of a race."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 13 points
First horse to earn half-a-million dollars and retired in 1943 as the highest earning racehorse to that time with $561,161 in his career bank.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
Whirlaway broke the KY Derby record which had stood for 10 years and his record, 2:01 2/5, stood for 21 years.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 17 points
Of the 11 U.S. Triple Crown winners, only three of them were awarded the ultimate accolade, Horse of the Year, twice: Affirmed at 3 and 4; Secretariat at 2 and 3; and Whirlaway at 3 and 4.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 16 points
Whirlaway should be ahead of Phar Lap. Eddie Arcaro saw PL race at Agua Caliente and was enormously impressed by him - perhaps more than he should have been given that PL beat nothing. But Arcaro rated Whirlaway better than PL - Phil Georgeff's 2003 book on Citation being one of several sources quoting Arcaro on Whirlaway's superiority over PL.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
Whirlaway was the 1941 triple crown winner. He deserves to be higher on the list than 62. My parents watched him run the first leg of the Triple Crown at Churchill Downs on their first date. They were married 10 days later and were married 63 years until my mothers death. He will always have a special place in my heart as a great horse in his and my history.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
42.
Seabiscuit
A well known horse about which a modern movie was made. Seabiscuit held many track records and was known as one of the fastest horses ever.
637 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 16 comments
Comments:
“… he was shipped fifty thousand railroad miles to compete at twenty-three tracks in nearly every major handicap race. … Seabiscuit ran eighty-nine times at sixteen different distances … regularly conceding twenty to thirty-five pounds to his foes. … Even with those handicaps, he set a stunning fifteen track records, equaled another, and amassed world record earnings. He whipped virtually every elite horse of his era, including the mighty Triple Crown winner War Admiral.” – Laura Hillenbrand, author of “Seabiscuit” (posted on the American Heritage website, May/June 2000).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 23 points
He usually carried more weight than any other horse he was racing against, and still won frequently, including some very impressive races. Seabiscuit had a true racing heart. I would rank him in at least in the top 5, I dont know why he is so low on this list, maybe people have just forgotten about how great he was.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -1 points
Seabiscuit is one of, if not the greatest racehorse ever. He overcame poor training from his early years, and beat several serious injuries. He beat war admiral, who was considered the best racehorse back then. He lost the santa anita twice due to jockey error, and finally won it at age 7. What other horse has done as much in their racing career?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
seabiscuit is the greatest horse that ever lived he proved that nothing would get in his way he has the heart to race and the pasion and speed to go with it nothing could stop him nor even war admiral i bet he could have given man o' war a run for his money sea biscuit should have been number one
Added 11 years ago by guest, -2 points
You have to be kiding I would rank him at 3 or 4. He lost THIRTY FIVE times and won only twice as a three and two year old, but he had bad ower, bad Jokey and everything. With the right ones and the right track, he was unbetable!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Are you kidding me? Sure, Biscuit didn't win however many races, but that doesn't matter. A quality horse has the heart, and The Biscuit had the heart. In his 2nd year he ran 35 races. That is dangerously to many for a horse that young. He was never to race again but he made a comeback and won the Santa Anita
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
totally mishandled as a 2 yr old....look what he did once he got better training and handling
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, 4 points
The Biscuit is by far the best horse out there. Just think what he could have done at age 2 and 3 if he had been trained right. I think the Biscuit could have taken any horse on. He had heart and would not back down and thats what gets you the win!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
The biscuit will always top my list. What other horse on this list could have rehabbed from a "career ending" injury to set the record in the mile and a quarter at the age of 7 !! The answer, not a single one! His win over War admiral BY 4 LENGTHS was on the Admiral's home turf and at the Admirals optimum distance. The Biscuit would have beat him any time they raced. No horse should be judged by a stupid trainer and a stupid owner. When those things were corrected, he could have beaten any horse that ever lived - by the record!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
Don't get me wrong Seabiscuit's story is inspirational and great. But, you have to be realistic about the horses ability. He was very good on his day but I wouldn't fancy this horse against hardly any of the horses on this list. If i'm honest I would definately bet on War Admiral if they were to race again. I love Seabiscuit but this list is about the quality of the horse not how popular it was.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
Seabiscuit is just the subject of an inspirational story and doesn't deserve to be on this list. He won only 5 of 35 races as a two year old -thereafter he rarely won in mostly West Coast races off the beaten track.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
Seabiscuit has history with him. He is a real inspiration. No other horse will have a heart like Seabiscuit.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
Also a great horse. His first year as a two-three year old he ran THIRTY FIVE times and won only twice. He was not well trained and a second thought. Once in the right hands he was incredible. He ran at the last minute, ran injured, always carried by far the most weight, lost several times by jockey error, but was always in there. He set many records on many tracks in many areas of the country. His race with the GREAT War Admiral is renowned and needs no further detail. An incredible horse with a great heart.
Added 13 years ago by budoinst, 3 points
with the right training he was unbeatable. just a great horse with lots of heart. he should be #1 with Man O WAR #2
Added 14 years ago by guest, 2 points
True he may be fast but no consistency. And consistency is what gets you places in the horse racing world
Added 14 years ago by guest, -4 points
your kidding right? he shouldnt be in the top 100. lost more races than half this list combined - bad job
Added 14 years ago by guest, -5 points
43.
Sunday Silence
628 points - added 13 years ago by Lochroe - 3 comments
Comments:
great horse
Added 9 years ago by johnbabin, 0 points
that beautiful beast won me i lot of money
Added 9 years ago by johnbabin, -1 points
He beat Easy Goer in the Kentucky Derby and the Breeders Cup Classic at Belmont. How can he be rated lower than Easy Goer? East Coast bias I guess. Truly a great horse.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
44.
Lammtarra
627 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 10 comments
Comments:
I don't think that record times are the true benchmark of greatness. When Workforce broke the track record for the Epsom Derby he was never considered a great champion , even though he did win a sub standard Arc. Far more telling of a horse's greatness is the quality of opposition it raced against.
Added 10 years ago by guest, -1 points
Well argued.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Are my eyes deceiving me? Lammtarra at #41? LAMMTARRA??? Some posters here suggest his short career (only four starts) prevents him from higher consideration. Well surely that depends on what he did in those four starts. And this is what he did: Won his only start as a two-year-old in the 7f Listed Washington Singer Stakes at Newbury. More than 300 days later, in his first start as a three-year-old, he won the G1 Epsom Derby in race record time that stood for 15 years and has only been bettered once. Next he won the G1 King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes, Britain’s most prestigious mile-and-a-half contest for three-year-olds and up. And he concluded his three-year-old season, and his career, by winning the G1 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe against Europe’s crème de la crème. Why does this not entitle Lammtarra to a much higher rating here than #41? A short career, yes. But there are quite a few horses rated above him here who did not achieve in longer careers anything comparable to what Lammtarra did in his short career.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 45 points
could be a good/great horse...who knows...4 races do not make a career...
Added 13 years ago by lyoness6, -13 points
Obviously a top class horse, but 4 races is not enough to rate him among the very best. I suspect that his Arab connections were more interested in his stud value as an unbeaten thoroughbred. Rated far too high on this list ,should be mid 40's.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -7 points
take a look at his times , the derby stands out being his FIRST run of the season, Are you saying Swain was not a top class horse ?
Added 13 years ago by guest, 17 points
Good horse but never ran against a strong opposition!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -13 points
Number one in my opionion , won the Derby with his first run of the season , in record time !
Added 13 years ago by guest, 6 points
Set the course record after winning the Epsom Derby, which was only bettered last year when Workforce won . Considering Lammtarra had such limited racing experience he must have been a brilliant racehorse, opposition notwithstanding.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 10 points
Brilliant. Absolutley brilliant 4 wins from 4 starts and just magnificent. Top 20 at least.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 18 points
45.
Colin
626 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
Like Secretariat, Colin was awarded U.S. racing's ultimate accolade, Horse of the Year, at both two and three - the only years he raced. [Of course, for Colin's era, 1907 and 1908, the honors were awarded retrospectively].
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
The legendary Charles Hatton, who observed and chronicled American horse racing from pre-Man o’ War to post-Secretariat, was renowned for his aversion to describing horses as “great.” He was asked in 1973, Secretariat’s three-year-old year, to name his five “greatest” horses. He replied he could name only four: Man o’ War, Sysonby, Colin … and Secretariat.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 32 points
James Rowe, Sr., described by the Hall of Fame as “arguably the most successful trainer in the history of Thoroughbred racing,” once said (according to his write-up on the HoF website) that he wanted his epitaph to read, simply: “He trained Colin.”
Added 11 years ago by guest, 28 points
Should be way up there he won all his 15 races!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 11 points
46.
Northern Dancer
624 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 7 comments
Comments:
Northern Dancer's win in the '64 KY Derby (2:00.00) was the fastest Run for the Roses to that time. His record was not surpassed until Secretariat's incomparable 1:59.4, nine years later. Even now, 50 years on, Northern Dancer's is still the third fastest winning time in KY Derby history.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 10 points
If you mean Native Dancer who is in the dams pedigree, I don't think it should really matter. Anyway, Northern Dancer a stunning horse, I have a book of him. Just love this horse!!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
How could Northern Dancer be responsible for Ruffian breaking her leg when he is not in her pedigree???
Added 12 years ago by guest, 21 points
I saw northern dancers halter!!!! In person it was soo cool
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
northan dancer is the reason ruffian bropke her leg. she sould never have been breed because of the soft bone gene. more fool you. :( millions cryed because of the breeder. i have nothing left to say.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -11 points
Horse was tough as nails, Canada's greatest ever
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Top sire of the 20th century
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
47.
All Along
All Along was one of the greatest female thoroughbreds of all time. Bred in France, she won her only start at two. At three she won, among other prestigious Stakes, the classic Prix Vermeille and was runner up in the Japan Cup! But at four she amply demonstrated her uniqueness. In a 41-day period she won the Arc, the Canadian International, Aqueduct’s Turf Classic and the Washington DC International – for which she was named Horse of the Year in both the U.S. and France, and U.S. Champion Female Turf Horse. Her four starts at five included a third in the Arc and a close second in the Breeders’ Cup Turf. She retired as the highest earning female in thoroughbred history ($3,018,420).
622 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
In 1983 she was the first female to win the Eclipse Award for U.S. Horse of the Year since the Eclipse Awards were inaugurated in 1971.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 5 points
She was only just run down in the Japan Cup as a three-year-old filly, beaten a neck by Half Iced. Among those finishing behind her were April Run (a champion in both France and the US) and the great John Henry.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
48.
Sir Ivor
622 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 8 comments
Comments:
He won G1 races in Ireland, France, England and the U.S. He won G1 races at two and three (the only years he raced) including two classics, the 2,000 Guineas and Epsom Derby, and as a three-year-old beat older horses on two continents in the Champion Stakes and the Washington DC International (both G1). He was runner up in three other prestigious G1s in three countries: the Irish Derby, the Eclipse Stakes and the Arc. He retired with a record of 13 - 8-3-1, earnings equivalent to USD561,323 and UK Horse of the Year honors in 1968.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 12 points
There are far better horses than Sir Ivor lower down this list. Sir Ivor was a good horse,but too highly rated here, IMO.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -3 points
Piggott rated Sir Ivor his best, I wouldn't argue with that, but the trouble was Sir Ivor was beaten far too often for my liking.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Lester Piggott quoted in The Guardian 28 May 2011: "I thought Sir Ivor was probably the best of mine [Derby mounts]. … He wasn't a mile-and-a-half horse but he had this terrific turn of foot. They were all great but I think he was the best.”
Added 12 years ago by guest, 19 points
Never herd of him but my cats name was ivor!:)
Added 12 years ago by guest, -12 points
When Sir Ivor swept past Connaught with such incredible acceleration to win the 1968 Derby I just could not see him ever being beaten, but he seemed to lose his form and only regained his former brilliance when annihilating the American horses in the Washington D.C International at Laurel Park. At his best Sir Ivor was a truly brilliant racehorse,of that there can be no doubt.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 15 points
Upto 10 furlongs may have conquered the likes of Mill Reef and Nijisnky.Sir Ivor produced devastating finishing speed to win the Guineas and Derby.He capped a hard season by winning the Washington International in 1968 to prove he was a true great.Not a true stayer ,which he was not bred for.He faced very high-class opposition i n his year like Petingo,Royal Palace,Fort Marcy etc.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 10 points
Piggott always said he was the best horse he ever rode. Not a bad judge in my opinion.
I certainly think Sir Ivor's turn of foot was something to behold.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 12 points
49.
Corrida
As a two-year-old filly in France in 1934, Corrida beat colts in the Prix Morny (now G1). At three she raced poorly in the English 1,000 Guineas and Oaks but returned to France for a fast-finishing third (neck x neck) in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe. She won the Arc the next year, 1936, and again in ’37; the only female to win France’s greatest race twice. At four she returned to England and won the Hardwicke Stakes at Royal Ascot. She also won at the elite level in Germany and Belgium and retired in ’37 as Europe’s richest mare. She disappeared during WWII and her ultimate fate remains a mystery.
618 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
Treve now joins her as the only females to win the Arc twice.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 0 points
50.
Alysheba
608 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
He was Champion Three-Year-Old Colt of 1987 and Champion Older Male and Horse of the Year in 1988. He also retired as the richest racehorse to that time with earnings of $6,679,242 and he set track records for 10f at both Belmont and The Meadowlands.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 5 points
Yes his win in the KY Derby was indeed extraordinary, but don't forget that with just two weeks to recover from that gut-buster he raced three-wide all the way through the last turn to win the Preakness. And in the BC Classic as a three-year-old he covered more ground than Lewis and Clark to go down to Ferdinand by a nostril. Yet he bounced back better than ever as a four-year-old to win six G1s, ending his career by taking the BC Classic in the slop at Churchill. His failure in the Belmont not withstanding, Alysheba was a remarkable racehorse.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 47 points
In an interview on TVG Chris McCarron rated him the best horse he had ridden, citing his win in the KY Derby (clipping Bet Twice's heels and nearly coming down early in the home stretch, and then having to change course acutely to get around Bet Twice late in the stretch) as extraordinary. See the ’87 KY Derby on YouTube.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 29 points
Classy horse...one race from winning the Triple Crown. His second to Ferdinand in theBreeders Cup Classic and his win the next year against one of the deepest fields...proves he was amongst the best. Certainly, the most successful of Alydar's offspring. He was 'America's Horse' during those years.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 22 points
51.
Sysonby
Sysonby was America’s first “great horse” of the 20th century. He was the Champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1904, winning five of six starts. It is widely recorded that after his one defeat – third in the Futurity Stakes - his groom admitted drugging him. In his first start at three he took on older horses in the Metropolitan and dead-heated with a five-year-old to whom he gave 10 lbs. He was never headed in his remaining eight starts of 1905. He didn’t race in what subsequently became coveted as the Triple Crown races, but he beat the KY Derby winner of that year both times they met (each time by five lengths) and the Belmont winner (also by five lengths). He was named Champion Three-Year-Old Colt of 1905 and Horse of the Year. He died before he could resume racing in 1906. His skeleton is on display at the American Museum of Natural History in NY. A panel assembled by Sports Illustrated in 1992 to determine “the greatest [U.S.] horses in racing history” ranked Sysonby #6.
606 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 5 comments
Comments:
Great to see this awesome horse getting well deserved recognition on this list.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 7 points
Hall of Fame trainer James Rowe, Sr., is reported to have said: “In the past 47 years I have seen but three colts that I thought were particularly outstanding. They were Sysonby, Colin and Man o’ War, taking them in chronological order.” Rowe’s assessment might not have been impartial, given that he trained Sysonby and Colin. But Neil Newman, a prominent US racing writer in the early 20th century and perhaps a more impartial judge, is reported to have named the same trio as the three best colts he had ever seen.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 36 points
The legendary Charles Hatton, who observed and chronicled American horse racing from pre-Man o’ War to post-Secretariat, was renowned for his aversion to describing horses as “great.” He was asked in 1973, Secretariat’s three-year-old year, to name his five “greatest” horses. He replied he could name only four: Man o’ War, Sysonby, Colin … and Secretariat.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 40 points
I'd love to own a horse NOW (in 2013) who could earn $184,438 in 15 starts at two and three!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 5 points
Here is a good measure of how great Sysonby was. In his 15 career starts (14 wins, 1 third) he earned $184,438 … and that was more than 100 years ago, in 1904 and 1905! That’s average earnings per start of $12,295 … in 1904 and 1905! One online site I’ve found that adjusts US dollar amounts going back that far calculates that $184,438 in 1905 was the equivalent of $4,640,744 in 2012. And thus his average earnings per start, in 2012 dollars, translates to $309,382. What a racehorse!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 42 points
52.
Easy Goer
605 points - added 13 years ago by Lochroe - 6 comments
Comments:
A great horse, without question. But he lost three of the four biggest races of his career - the KY Derby, Preakness and Breeders' Cup Classic.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 15 points
Easy Goer should be much higher, The Top Beyer horse perhaps of all time 7+120 Beyers, almost broke 7 track records, ran the fastest dirt mile for a 3year old ever and the 2nd Fastest Belmont Ever. One ride caused him greatness, 3 rides caused him IMORTALITY!!!!
Added 10 years ago by guest, -7 points
Charlie Whittingham, trainer of Sunday Silence, saluting Easy Goer’s extraordinary win in the Belmont (beating Sunday Silence by 8 lengths): “Maybe that was one of the great mile and a halfs of all time.” – Sports Illustrated, 19 June 1989.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 27 points
Correcting my typo below: Slew o' Gold, of course.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -1 points
Only three horses have won the Whitney, Woodward and Jockey Club Gold Cup in the same year: Kelso (1961 & ’63), Slow o’ Gold (’84) and Easy Goer (’89). But EG is the only one to do it as a 3yo.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 5 points
Superbly bred horse with a race record to match. Never finished out of a place, 20—14-5-1. Won at G1 level each year he raced (2, 3 and 4). And won at the elite level from 7f to 12f. Possessed exceptional speed and stamina. At 2 won his maiden over 7f at Saratoga in 1:22 3/5 followed by an Allowance win over 6.5f at Belmont in 1:15 2/5 (1/5 off the track record) – performances described by the NY Times as “extraordinarily quick.” Then won the G1 Cowdin in a manner causing the NYT to describe him as “something special” and won the G1 Champagne (8f) in the “brilliant time” (NYT) of 1:34 4/5 – only three Champagne winners have gone faster. The next year he cruised to a 13-length victory in the Gotham, then over 8f at Aqueduct, in 1:32 2/5 – the fastest mile ever by a 3yo, shattering Secretariat’s stakes record (by a full second) and missing Dr. Fager’s world record, “the most hallowed standard of time in American racing” (NYT), by just one-fifth of a second. After easily accounting for the Wood Memorial, EG was upset by Sunday Silence in both the KY Derby and the Preakness but got his revenge by annihilating his nemesis in the Belmont in 2:26, a time surpassed only by Secretariat’s incomparable Belmont. Sunday Silence beat him again in the BC Classic but not before EG went on a unique G1 spree winning the Travers and beating the best older horses in the Whitney, Woodward and Jockey Club Gold Cup. At 4 he won the G1 Suburban, giving his opponents 12 to 19 lbs., before injury forced his retirement.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 37 points
53.
Cigar
16 consecutive wins from age 4 to age 6. Earned $9,999,813 in purses
605 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
In 24 races on dirt Cigar went 18-2-2. You always here how he only won 19 out of 33 races. He won one turf race but otherwise up until 4 years old his talent was wasted on the grass. Once Bill Mott put him on the dirt he totally dominated whilst carrying more weight then his competition. Cigar is easily a top 10 horse. R.I.P. Cigar
Added 10 years ago by guest, 1 point
R.I.P. 7 Oct '14. A great racehorse.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 2 points
He was the only two-time winner of U.S. horse racing’s ultimate accolade, Horse of the Year, in the 1990’s (’95 and ’96) – so his claim to the title “U.S. Horse of the 1990’s” is well merited.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 9 points
This magnificent thoroughbred, the epitome of class and courage, was ranked #18 in The Blood-Horse magazine’s Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th century. As such he was the highest ranked horse that raced in the 1990's, giving rise to the unofficial (but well deserved) title, the Horse of the Decade.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 12 points
One of the greatest although i didnt like the owners silks
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Seattle Slew Offspring.
Added 14 years ago by guest, -1 points
54.
Danedream
Think of the great horses that have raced in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe since it was inaugurated in 1920. Now consider that as a three-year-old filly Danedream ran the 12f of the Arc – Europe’s most prestigious open-company thoroughbred contest – in faster time than any competitor in the event’s history! And she romped away from a top-class field to win by a near-record margin of five lengths (the record is six). At four she came back and beat another high-quality field in Britain’s equivalent of the Arc, the King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes. She also won the Italian Oaks and the G1 Grosser Preis von Berlin at three, and the G1 Grosser Preis von Baden at three and four, and was Europe’s Champion Three-Year-Old Filly. A horse well worthy of being on this list!
597 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
55.
Nashua
596 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
He won his first race, a maiden, and his last race, the Jockey Club Gold Cup – his second successive victory in that prestigious event. He won from 5f to 16f. He equaled the 6f track record at Belmont, set a new 9.5f track record at Pimlico in the Preakness and broke the track and North American record for 16f in his second JCGC at Belmont.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 13 points
Nashua was the second thoroughbred to reach $1 million in earnings (after Citation) and retired in 1956 as the breed’s richest performer to that time with a career bank of $1,288,565. He was also the first thoroughbred sold for a seven-figure amount when a breeding syndicate bought him, while still racing, for $1,251,200. His 8 – 6-2-0 juvenile campaign saw him voted US Champion Two-Year-Old Colt. He dominated US racing at three, setting a new sophomore earnings record ($752,550), shattering the Preakness record, winning the Belmont by 9 lengths, beating some of the best older horses in the first of his two Jockey Club Gold Cup victories, and – most notably – reversing his loss to Swaps in the KY Derby by thrashing the Derby winner in their famous match race in Chicago. He was voted US Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and Horse of the Year.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 13 points
56.
Curlin
Twice Horse of the Year, winner of Belmont, BC Classic 07, Dubai world Cup, and more grade I races - campaigning two years as 3 and 4-year old.
596 points - added 15 years ago by guest - 5 comments
Comments:
Inducted into the U.S. Hall of Fame in 2014.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 0 points
If I read it correctly, the note accompanying this entry suggests Curlin won the Belmont Stakes? Not so. The filly Rags To Riches beat him.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 12 points
A favorite of my heart, It was so sweet to see the amazing Rachel Alexandria with her first foal, sired by Curlin.
Added 12 years ago by Emerald01, 0 points
Richest horse in america!!!!! Although that doesnt mean much cuz purse money changes with time
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
great horse, seen him race live twice, including at the jockey club gold cup to become north america first 10 million dollar man. however, he is not a belmont winner, he was runner up to rags to riches, a great filly. he did win the preakness though that year.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
57.
Tom Fool
594 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
His Hall of Fame jockey Ted Atkinson, one of the best of his era, said of him: “Tom Fool … could run like hell … On his best day, none of the other horses I ever rode, on their best days, could measure with him."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 7 points
Tom Fool was America’s dominant juvenile of 1951, his five wins and two seconds from seven starts earning him Champion Two-Year-Old Colt honors. At three he had the monumental misfortune to fall sick at the wrong time and miss the Triple Crown. It took him until September to regain full health when he won the Jerome Hcp by seven lengths. At four he was untouchable, winning all 10 of his starts, from 5.5f to 10f, including the New York Handicap Triple Crown (Metropolitan, Suburban and Brooklyn). This earned him three year-end honors in 1953: Champion Sprinter, Champion Older Horse, and Horse of the Year.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 16 points
58.
Peintre Celebre
593 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Peintre Celebre's win in the 1997 Arc was nothing less than sensational. Locked away on the rail in the back half of the field, Pislier deftly extricated him in the straight and, once shown daylight, he whisked away to win by five lengths. He shattered Trempolino's Arc record by 1.7 seconds (8.5 lengths). Peintre Celebre's Arc record of 2:24.6 has been surpassed only once since; Danedream sliced 0.11 seconds off it in 2011.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
Brilliant three-year-old in 1997, winner of the Prix du Jockey Club, Grand Prix de Paris and Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe - and European Horse of the Year.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
59.
Ksar
Ksar was the first horse to win the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe twice – in 1921, as a three-year-old, and again in 1922. He won what became G1 races each year he raced (2, 3 and 4), including the Prix du Jockey Club (French Derby) and the Prix Royal-Oak (St. Leger). He retired with career stats of 15 – 11-3-0. Some reports say he surpassed Isinglass’s world record earnings but other reports dispute that. It is indisputable, however, that Ksar was one of Europe’s greatest racehorses in the period between the World Wars.
592 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
A son of the mighty French filly Kizil Kourgan (also featured on this list).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 2 points
60.
Isinglass
Britain’s top juvenile of 1892, Isinglass went on to win the Triple Crown the following year. But coming back in distance from the 12f of the St. Leger, he ended his three-year-old campaign with the only defeat of his career when runner-up in the 8f Lancashire Plate. At 4 he won the Princess of Wales’s, Eclipse and Jockey Club Stakes. And he won the Ascot Gold Cup at 5. He retired 12 – 11-1-0, winning at distances from 5f to 20f, winning what are now G1s each year he raced (2, 3, 4 and 5), and earning 58,655 pounds which stood as the world record for 28 years (surpassed by Zev in 1923) and the UK record for 57 years (surpassed by Tulyar in 1952). This was a great racehorse!
591 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
61.
Dalakhani
Dalakhani won the Arc as a three-year-old colt, as well as the Prix du Jockey Club (French Derby) and the G1 Prix Lupin. He'd also won the G1 Critérium International at two. Only defeat in his nine career starts was runner-up to a stablemate, beaten half a length, in the Irish Derby. Dalakhani was Europe's Champion Three-Yer-Old Colt , and Horse of the Year, in 2003.
591 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
62.
Exceller
He won against two Triple Crown winners in one race!! He won against Seattle Slew and Affirmed in the same race, in the Jockey Gold Cup in 1978
591 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
He won GIs in four countries: France, England, Canada and the US. He won GIs on grass and on dirt. He won GIs racing clockwise and anti-clockwise. A classic winner at three (the Prix Royal-Oak, the French St Leger), he showed durability to have his best ever season as a five-year-old when he won seven of his 10 starts, on both coasts of the US, including GIs on grass and dirt. As noted, the climax of his career was the 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup when he came from 22 lengths behind down the Belmont backstretch to beat Triple Crown winners Seattle Slew and Affirmed in one of the most exciting horse races of the 1970's – a decade with no shortage of exciting horse races!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 46 points
Sentimental crap that Seattle Slew received more attention in defeat than in victory for this race. Exterminator has always been undervalued and this is just another example. He beat Seattle Slew fair and square over 12 furlongs which is no surprise as that is the favourite distance of European trained horses.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
True but it was Seattle Slew's gutsy effort coming back after a 109.2 3/4. that the race is remembered for. Even Exceller's Jockey Willie Shoemaker said after the race that his horse won but that Seattle Slew ran the greatest race he ever saw.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 0 points
63.
Genuine Risk
She was only the second filly to win the KY Derby when she did it in 1980. And it was no fluke; she never saw the fence, racing three- and four-wide the whole way. She finished second in the Preakness after being nearly flattened on the home turn by the winner Codex. Her jockey lodged an objection, which six-time Preakness winning jockey Eddie Arcaro – part of the ABC TV coverage team – said should have been upheld but was not. She followed this with a strong second in the Belmont to become the only filly ever to finish on the board in all three races of the Triple Crown.
589 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 5 comments
Comments:
Although Codex nearly flattened Genuine Risk and severely disrupted her momentum, rounding into the homestretch in the 1980 Preakness, she still finished second in what was to that time the equal third fastest Preakness over 9.5f – behind Secretariat and Canonero II and equal with Spectacular Bid. Illustrious company!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 23 points
Tragically her 1982 mating with Secretariat – the first ever mating of Kentucky Derby winners – resulted in a stillborn colt.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 22 points
She won all four starts at two including the Tempted and the Demoiselle Stakes. And in addition to her unique performance in the Triple Crown at three she also won the Ruffian Hcp and was voted US Champion Three-Year-Old Filly. She retired after her four-year-old season having never finished off the board (15 – 10-3-2) and was inducted into the Hall of Fame just five years after she retired.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
She got revenge for her controversial loss to Codex in the Preakness when she finished more than eight lengths ahead of him in the Belmont.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 27 points
Excerpts from the ABC coverage team on the Codex/Genuine Risk controversy in the Preakness. Eddie Arcaro: “There’s no doubt that Codex came out and ran into this filly when she was putting in her best punch. She was in high gear when she got hit … I think it detained her. … He (Codex) runs right out into this filly. Wow! About as plain as you can see.” Jim McKay: “It couldn’t have been much more flagrant really could it Eddie?” Arcaro: “No, not much more – unless he knocked her completely down.” Howard Cosell: “Eddie, what’s your guess …?” Arcaro: “Howard, if I was a steward ... I would have to take the number down.” After the stewards dismissed the objection Cosell said: “I think maybe they (the stewards) were more concerned with keeping the record intact of never taking a winner down” in the then 105-year history of the Preakness.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 32 points
64.
Invasor
588 points - added 15 years ago by arollison - 3 comments
Comments:
Invasor was declared the World's Best Racehorse of 2006 by the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities in its World Thoroughbred Racehorse Rankings for '06.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 5 points
“This horse [Invasor] is once in a lifetime.” - Trainer Kiaran McLaughlin, Bloodhorse.com, 31 March 2007.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 7 points
Good to see Invasor moving up this list. When I first noticed him he was, unbelievably and undeservedly, near the bottom! Bred in Argentina, he initially raced in Uruguay where he was unbeaten in five starts including that country’s three-year-old Triple Crown. Bought by Sheikh Hamdan he was whisked off Dubai where he suffered his only defeat in the UAE Derby. As a four-year-old he rattled off five straight G1 wins in the US culminating with his triumph in the Breeders’ Cup Classic. Then he won a sixth straight G1 in the Dubai World Cup. His career comprised: 12 races, on seven different tracks, on three continents, 11 wins (nine G1) over distances from 5.5f to 12.5f, earnings of US$7.8 million, and US Horse of the Year honors. I suggest that’s a record superior to many listed above him here.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 45 points
65.
Sarazen
The 1920s was a vintage decade in the U.S. for great thoroughbreds. Hall of Famers Man o’ War, Exterminator, Reigh Count, Zev, Grey Lag, Crusader and Blue Larkspur were all Horses of the Year during the ‘20s. Two other Hall of Famers also raced in that decade: 1919 Triple Crown winner Sir Barton raced his last season in 1920 and 1930 Triple Crown winner Gallant Fox raced his first season in 1929. But Sarazen achieved something none of these greats did. He was the only one of them to be awarded Horse of the Year twice (’24 and ’25).
587 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 5 comments
Comments:
“There was no horse better than Sarazen during his period. Of those he met, he beat them all, mud or dry, cyclone or volcano, beat them at the gate and beat them under the wire.” – legendary horseman Col. Phil T. Chinn, who was involved in the early development of Sarazen, quoted in Kent Hollingsworth’s book “The Kentucky Thoroughbred.”
Added 11 years ago by guest, 17 points
Sarazen belongs to that elite band of thoroughbreds who won at the highest level of competition on both dirt and grass. He remains the only dual winner of the Dixie Stakes (aka, Dixie Handicap) which has been raced on grass at Pimlico since 1870 (with a few interruptions) and which carries with it one of the oldest trophies in American horse racing, the Annapolis Subscription Plate. The Dixie was one of the most prestigious races in the U.S. in Sarazen’s time and remains a GII stakes today.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
Sarazen was unlucky not to have been U.S. Horse of the Year three times! As pointed out below, he won all 10 starts as a two-year-old in 1923, including several of the most prestigious juvenile Stakes races – and he beat older horses. But three-year-old Zev was awarded Horse of the Year in '23. Ironically, the two met the following year, in the Arverne Hcp at Aqueduct, with Sarazen prevailing.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 25 points
One of many great but forgotten horses. Thanks for reminding us of him.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 3 points
He won all 10 starts at two including the Champagne S, National Stallion S and Laurel Special, and the Fall Serial against older horses. Illness forced him out of the Triple Crown races at three but he bounced back to win the Carter H, Manhattan H and Saranac S. Then he beat French superstar Epinard in the strongest of the three “International Specials” in which the visiting European champion took on the best horses in the U.S. A reported crowd of 60,000 watched Sarazen beat Epinard (and that year’s Belmont S winner Mad Play) and shatter the Latonia track record for 10f in what Sarazen’s trainer, Hall of Famer Max Hirsch, would later describe as his greatest thrill in racing. Sarazen was awarded dual honors as 1924’s Champion Three-Year-Old Male and Horse of the Year. He would reprise the Horse of the Year honor again in 1925, and be awarded Champion Older Male, after winning the Averne H and Fleetwing H (both for a second time), the Dixie H (which he would win again in ’26) and the Bryan Memorial.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 33 points
66.
Flying Fox
Flying Fox followed in his grandsire Ormonde’s hoof steps by winning the English Triple Crown (1899). His outstanding two-year-old record of 5 – 3-2-0 included wins in the New Stakes, Stockbridge Foal Stakes and Criterion Stakes. He was unbeaten in his six starts at three. In addition to winning the 2,000 Guineas, Derby and St. Leger he beat top quality older horses in the Eclipse, Prince of Wales and Jockey Club Stakes. After his owner died, Flying Fox was sold in early 1900 to a French breeder who paid 37,500 guineas for him – at that time the highest price ever paid for a horse at auction.
586 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
67.
Nearco
Although his impact on the breed as a prepotent sire is beyond measure, Nearco certainly deserves consideration among the “Best Racehorses of All Times.” Bred by the legendary thoroughbred geneticist Federico Tesio, this colt was the dominant two- and three-year-old on the continent in 1937 and ’38. He won all 14 of his starts, including Italy’s premier contest for juveniles and its equivalent of the 2,000 Guineas and Derby at three. Nearco concluded his career by winning his only race outside Italy, the Grand Prix de Paris at Longchamp. He won at distances from 5f to 15f.
584 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
68.
Omaha
584 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 14 comments
Comments:
Omaha’s short-head loss to the Epsom Oaks-winning filly Quashed in the 1936 Ascot Gold Cup – after a grueling head-to-head battle over the last quarter mile – is rated #1 in a listing The Observer newspaper published in 2002 of “The 10 Greatest Horse Races of All Time.” The listing includes this comment from jockey-turned-racing writer Jack Leach: “To see Quashed and Omaha battle out the finish of the Ascot Gold Cup took years off a man's life, though it was well worth it.”
Added 10 years ago by guest, 3 points
Only one of the 11 U.S. Triple Crown winners was never Horse of the Year - and that was Omaha.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 9 points
The poster two down may well be delirious, but at least he/she makes a logical point and a pertinent point. You display your intellectual vacuity by doing neither.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 32 points
The previous poster is obviously delirious.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -24 points
Several posts here seem to be confused about the title of this list. It is "Best Racehorses of All Times" not "Best Racehorses I Have Seen." Most of us are quite capable of researching the abundantly available race records (and press clippings, old newsreels now on YouTube, etc.) of horses who raced before we were born. Because we did not live during the Roman Empire does not preclude us from assessing its merits and demerits.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 41 points
Pound for pound, clearly the best equine ever to be saddled up!!!
Added 11 years ago by guest, -40 points
From the sublime to the ridiculous. Omaha's supporters just might have seen him. Those of Eclipse, who raced from 1769 to 1771, haven't seen even photographs of him. Anyway, to name him "the maker of all the thoroughbreds..." is clearly inaccurate. Eclipse comes from the line of the Darley Arabian, who, with the Godolphin Arab and the Byerley Turk, were brought from the Middle East around four centuries ago and were mated with the colder blooded horses of Europe to found the modern Thoroughbred. What any of that has to do with this discussion, however, is difficult to imagine.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -13 points
eclipse, the horse that no one has mentioned is the maker of all the thoroughbreds all of you have mentioned and won every race he ran. which was 18 races. he was the first horse to be known to have a masive heart and ritiered to the stud because people were afraid to put there horses against him. i am sorry, everyone has a valid point but eclipse is the clear winner. if you dont beleive me then look him up on "thoroughbred hertiage" in google.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -11 points
i think you should look at some of the irish trained horses , flat racing and national hunt . sea the stars ,shergar , arkle , istabraq need i say more
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
I have returned to this site some six months after giving up on it because common sense and logic had been removed from it. And what do I find? The discussion has been taken over by some of the oldest racing enthusiasts in existence. Omaha won his Triple Crown in 1935. If we say the age of reason is reached at 21 years, that means that his supporters are approaching their hundredth birthdays. All I can do is congratulate them on their exceptional powers of recollection.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -14 points
No, anyone who knows even a little about pedigree and performance would eliminate this from top ten consideration.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
Yes Omaha. Anyone who knows anything about horses would agree with Omaha's position!!
Added 13 years ago by guest, -13 points
Omaha ??? come on. Secretariat and Man o war, 1-2 all the others are way behind them. This is silly
Added 13 years ago by guest, 8 points
Burst from the gate....smooth in stride.....strong at finish. A complete horse at any length. 'Nuff said.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
69.
john henry
583 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
Vastly overrated.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -18 points
Top 10 horse for sure.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
SHOULD BE IN top 5
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
2x horse of the year, most graded stakes wins all time, personality to spare, longevity...etc. John Henry should be in the top 25 on this list. He didn't have the greatest genetics and he was all heart. One of the greatest, most exciting closers ever, possibly 2nd only to Zenyatta.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 9 points
70.
Bold Ruler
582 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
Bold Ruler ran against the best class of throughbreds in the U.S.: Gen. Duke, Gallant Man, Iron Liege, Round Table, etc. and more than held his own. Heads up against Secretariat at 1 1/8 miles, Bold Ruler would win 7 of 10.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -5 points
71.
Hindoo
Perhaps America’s greatest thoroughbred of the 19th century, Hindoo had 18 straight wins as a three-year-old in 1881 including the KY Derby and the Travers. He won at the highest level each year he raced (2, 3 and 4), compiling formidable career stats of 35 – 30-3-2 and retiring in 1882 as America’s highest earning thoroughbred to that time. He was retrospectively named Champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1880, Champion Three-Year-Old Colt of 1881 and Champion Handicap Horse of 1882. No list of great thoroughbreds is complete without him.
581 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
72.
Reigh Count
The last KY Derby winner to also win what is now a G1 in Europe. He won the Derby in 1928 and the Coronation Cup in England the following year. He also came within a nose of winning the Ascot Gold Cup. Retrospectively named Champion Two-Year-Old Colt of 1927, Reigh Count’s juvenile campaign is best remembered not for his four wins but for one defeat: when his jockey appeared to misjudge the finish line allowing his stablemate to beat him by a head in the $100,000 Belmont Futurity. At three he won the KY Derby easily. But a vicious kick in the hock at the start of the Derby kept him out of the Preakness and Belmont. He came back to defeat Preakness winner Victorian in the Lawrence Realization and beat older horses in the Saratoga Cup and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He was later named US Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and Horse of the Year for 1928.
581 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 5 comments
Comments:
He won at the highest level on dirt on one side of the Atlantic. He won at the highest level on grass on the other side of the Atlantic. And unlike modern equine travel by aircraft, he traversed the Atlantic by boat.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 8 points
Sired U.S. Champion 2yo Colt, Champion 3yo Colt, Triple Crown winner and Horse of the Year, Count Fleet. Reigh Count was also the paternal grandsire of Kelso's dam.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
I think you're right. I can't find another Kentucky Derby winner who subsequently won a Group 1 in Europe. In which case, Reigh Count's achievement would be genuinely unique and should elevate him well above his current rating of 108th on this list (on 28 Sep '13).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
You say Reigh Count was the "last" KY Derby winner to win what is now a G1 in Europe. Were there any others? I think Reigh Count was the first, last and only! Omaha came close to matching Reigh Count's feat when, after winning two lesser Stakes in England, he finished a short-head second in the now-G1 Ascot Gold Cup. But I can't find a KY Derby winner, other than Reigh Count, who won what is now a G1 in Europe. Anyone?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 2 points
The 2011 KY Derby winner Animal Kingdom recently attempted a similarly rare double by trying, but failing, to win the 2013 G1 Queen Anne Stakes at Ascot.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
73.
Twenty Grand
A foal of 1928, Twenty Grand belonged to one of the great crops of U.S. thoroughbreds. Twenty Grand, Equipoise, Jamestown and Mate were known as the “big four” of that crop, which also included Vander Pool who won his first 15 starts. Although Twenty Grand was a two-time victor over Equipoise at two, Equipoise and Jamestown were adjudged Co-Champion Two-Year-Old Colts for 1930. But at three Twenty Grand dominated his illustrious peers. After a troubled trip and finishing second to Mate in the Preakness (then the first race of the Triple Crown), he won the KY Derby by 4 lengths (in race and track record time) and the Belmont by 10 lengths before beating older horses in the Saratoga and Jockey Club Gold Cups. Twenty Grand was retrospectively named Champion Three-Year-Old Colt AND Horse of the Year for 1931.
580 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
"Twenty Grand galloped down the Saratoga homestretch on Saturday afternoon to undying fame. Not only did the honor of being undisputedly the country's best thoroughbred await" him "but his impressive performance stamped him as one of the greatest cup horses in the history of the turf." - the Schenectady Gazette, 7 Sep. 1931, on three-year-old Twenty Grand's trouncing of Sun Beau and other top older horses in the Saratoga Cup.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 15 points
As a three-year-old in the Saratoga Cup, Twenty Grand beat by 10 lengths the then six-year-old Sun Beau, who was U.S. Champion Older Male Horse three times and whose career earnings record stood for nine years.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 14 points
In addition to setting a new race and track record in the 1931 KY Derby (10f, 2:01 4/5), Twenty Grand set an even more remarkable record a year earlier when he beat Equipoise by a nose in the KY Jockey Club Stakes (8f, 1:36) – the fastest mile by a two-year-old to that time and the fastest mile at Churchill Downs to that time regardless of age.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 43 points
74.
Swaps
577 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 6 comments
Comments:
Greatest horse I ever personally saw run
Added 9 years ago by guest, 0 points
He was the best ever, never put to a drive is just, unbelievable for those world records.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 0 points
“He probably had the purest action of any horse I’ve seen,” Barry Irwin wrote of Swaps in his 2002 eponymously titled book. “He was like a well-oiled machine. I think that is what allowed him to break records on any surface.”
Added 10 years ago by guest, 13 points
A powerfully built yet gracefully gaited galloper whose seemingly effortless skimming-the-surface style of going no doubt contributed to his phenomenal world record speed.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 13 points
When injury forced his retirement as a four-year-old , Swaps had set five world records and equaled another – from 8f to 13f – a feat still unique in thoroughbred history. Looking at it another way: in six of his 19 career wins (31.5%), he set or equaled world records. It has to be said that these records were on historically fast dirt tracks - five at Hollywood Park in California and one at Gulfstream Park in Florida. But at three, in the American Derby at Arlington Park in Illinois, Swaps also equaled the U.S. grass record for 9.5f. And in at least two other starts he set track records. Thus in nine of his 19 career wins (a mind-boggling 47%) he set or equaled world, U.S. or track records. Astonishing!
Added 10 years ago by guest, 15 points
63rd--y'all are nuts! He is better than Secretariat, hands down. He legitimately was seriously hurt before his match race with Nashua. And I say this as a long time fan of Nashua.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -11 points
75.
Deep Impact
576 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
Correcting my typo below to 3:13.4.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
Won the two-mile G1 Spring Tenno Sho in 2006 in a world record 3:14.4.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Japan Triple Crown winner and Japan Cup winner. Won just about everything there was for him to win in Japan. His only defeat there was runner-up in the 2005 Arima Kinen but he made amends by winning that race the following year. His only other loss was third place finish in the 2006 Arc but he was subsequently disqualified to last place due to a positive drug test, which tarnished his stellar reputation somewhat. Japan’s Horse of the Year 2005 and 2006. He retired with a 14 – 12-1-0 record and earnings equivalent to USD12.8 million.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 14 points
76.
Vodka
Vodka won G1s at 2, 3, 4 and 5 including the Tokyo Yushun (aka, the Japan Derby) and the Japan Cup. She was Japan’s Champion 2YO Filly, Champion Mare (twice) and Horse of the Year (twice). And she earned more than USD13 million. Surely she deserves consideration among the top 120+ racehorses of all time.
572 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
Retired as the richest thoroughbred mare of all time – and the second richest thoroughbred of all time regardless of gender (behind T. M. Opera O) – winning the equivalent of USD13,147,826.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 9 points
Only mare to win Japan’s Horse of the Year twice.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 20 points
This is a joke that Vodka is so low on this list ... #113? Come on! She would have blown away some of the fillies and mares above her here.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 14 points
77.
Gentildonna
Won Japan's filly Triple Crown and then became the first three-year-old female to win the Japan Cup beating an Arc winner and an Arc runner-up in the process. Amazing filly!
572 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 16 comments
Comments:
Great to see this grand mare bow out with such a courageous win in the Arima Kinen. What a performance! What a career!
Added 9 years ago by guest, 5 points
“That was the most extraordinary checkered passage you’ve ever seen,” TV commentator Jim McGrath said of the Ryan Moore/Gentildonna home-straight heroics in the Dubai Sheema Classic. “Twice he got badly checked and he still got the money. Goes to show you what an extraordinary filly (sic) she is,” McGrath concluded.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 5 points
Consolidated her high status with a remarkable win in the 2014 Dubai Sheema Classic. Ryan Moore had to make a near-90-degree turn to get her clear approaching the eighth-pole, after which she won for fun. Her connections said afterward that an attempt at a third straight Japan Cup win is a possibility.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 7 points
She did it! First horse to win the Japan Cup twice!
Added 10 years ago by guest, 29 points
She didn't race in the 2013 Arc. Her connections say they are saving her for a defense of her Japan Cup title.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Good to see this great mare getting the attention she deserves. She's my early tip for the 2013 Arc.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
She not only beat an Arc winner and an Arc runner-up in the 2012 Japan Cup, she also beat a Japan Cup winner, Rose Kingdom (2010).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 2 points
She was also voted Japan’s Horse of the Year for 2012 (a rare feat for a 3yo filly), garnering 256 of the 289 votes.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
Indeed, her's was THE toughest, gamest performance of the entire Dubai World Cup program.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 20 points
Given a terrible ride by Yasunari Iwata, Gentildonna only enhanced her reputation with an awesome performance in the Dubai Sheema Classic. Posted four wide without cover around the first turn, and three wide without cover thereafter, she held on for a game second behind Breeders’ Cup Turf and dual Coronation Cup winner St Nicholas Abbey while decisively rebuffing Melbourne and Caulfield Cup winner Dunaden after shaking off Arc runner-up Shareta in early stretch. Given the flop of Royal Delta in the Dubai World Cup, is there a better thoroughbred mare in the world than Gentildonna?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 30 points
I have now added Vodka to this list.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -1 points
There is a huge bias against Japanese horses in this list – probably to do with the language barrier. I can’t find Vodka listed here. She won G1s at 2, 3, 4 and 5 including the Tokyo Yushun (aka, the Japan Derby) and the Japan Cup. She was Japan’s Champion 2YO Filly, Champion Mare (twice) and Horse of the Year (twice). And she earned more than USD13 million. Surely she deserves consideration among the top 120+ racehorses of all time.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 17 points
Last time I browsed this list Gentildonna wasn't even on it. Good to see she has finally been recognized - but 112th??? That is seriously wrong!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
I don't know about her being the best filly or mare in the world in 2012 (although, come to think of it, the uniqueness of her achievement would entitle her to consideration for that title) but she certainly deserves to be a hell of a lot higher than #112.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
The best filly or mare in the world in 2012. Any doubts about her because she was only racing against her own age and sex in the Triple Tiara classics evaporated with her gutsy win against all-comers in the Japan Cup.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 28 points
To those who say she should have been taken down in the Japan Cup, look at the head-on video: Orfevre moved in as much as she moved out; equal blame. The close finish, the inquiry and the controversy about it do not detract one iota from Gentildonna's triumph in the Cup - one of the top performances by a racehorse in the world in 2012. (PS: Clearly Orfevre, great racehorse though he is, has trouble running straight at the end of his races. Look at how far he moved in over the final furlong of the Arc!)
Added 11 years ago by guest, 30 points
78.
Tiznow
Tiznow is the first – and to date, the only – horse to win the Breeders’ Cup Classic twice. He first won it as a three-year-old in 2000, out-gutting European Horse of the Year Giant’s Causeway and leaving in his wake KY Derby winner Fusaichi Pegasus and Belmont Stakes winner Lemon Drop Kid. He did it again the following year, out-gutting Arc winner Sakhee with Epsom Derby winner Galileo sixth. Tiznow was the US Horse of the Year in 2000 and is in the Hall of Fame.
570 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Tom Durkin describing Tiznow's ultra-courageous battle to prevail over Arc winner Sakhee in the 2001 Breeders' Cup Classic: "An heroic stretch drive that will go on in Breeders' Cup legend."
Added 11 years ago by guest, 3 points
If anyone ever asks you what is it that you find so appealing about thoroughbred horse racing, just direct them to the YouTube videos of Tiznow's two Breeders' Cup Classic wins. In both, against some of the best horses in the world, he was the very embodiment of equine Courage, Gameness and Will-to-Win!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 19 points
79.
La Fleche
Great English filly undefeated in four starts at two in 1891, beating colts including the following year’s 2,000 Guineas winner Bona Vista. At 3 she went 9 – 8-1-0, winning the fillies’ Triple Crown (1,000 Guineas, Epsom Oaks and St. Leger). Her only loss at 3 was in the Epsom Derby where she finished ¾-length second to Sir Hugo, who she later beat in the St. Leger. At 5 she won the Ascot Gold Cup and Champion Stakes. Described by the Press Association after her St. Leger win as “one of the best fillies that ever raced in England.”
570 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
80.
Arkle
Arkle was the greatest steeplechaser ever to jump fences. He carried huge weights and nearly always gave 35 pounds of weight to the other horses he raced against and still beat them. He never fell and was very rarely beaten. No other steeplechaser can be compared to Arkle ,he was,quite simply ,the best there has ever been.
568 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 29 comments
Comments:
We will never see another chaser to compare wih Arkle, he was quite simply, one of a kind, a freak of nature. To see Arkle in action was just incredible. No matter how much weight the handicapper lumped on him , he would nearly always beat the opposition. Arkle was a truly sensational horse.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
Of course Arkle was the greatest, that is beyond dispute by all those of us who know anything about horse racing.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
The greatest racehorse of all time, his record proves this.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
No doubt about it, the best there has ever been.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
No horse, anytime or anywhere in the world ever achieved what this great horse did. Carried bonecrushing weights and still beat all opposition. Never fell and was very rarely beaten. An indication of Arkle's greatest is the fact that he still holds the course record for the extended 3miles at Sandown Park which he set in 1965, THAT'S 47 YEARS AGO. Arkle was the greatest racehorse who ever lived , Flat or steeplechaser.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 6 points
What has that last comment got to do with Arkle? Bizarre!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 6 points
How can all you people forget Man o War ? Just because he is before your time ? In my opinion you can take Secretariat and Man O war and put them 1 -2 in any order. None of the others come close.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Perhaps you should learn to get your facts right,Lochroe! You stated that Flyingbolt had won over almost 3miles6furlongs, which is incorrect. The longest distance that Flyingbolt was successful over was 3miles 2furlongs and that was in the 1966 Irish Grand National.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Absolutely correct! I posted that and I was WRONG! The RP confirms this in their NH course records section.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Someone claimed that Arkle holds the record for Sandown's extended three miles and five furlongs. He doesn't, but he does hold the record for the extended three miles on the same course.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
So was Pat Taaffe, who rode both Arkle and Flyingbolt, and he couldn't split them.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, 1 point
The official handicapper IS an expert.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
Brilliant. You say it. Therefore it must be so. Your debating powers are clearly as good as they were when you were in primary school. But you should have gone on to say that the Jockey Club's handicapper of steeplechasers in the sixties must have been totally incompetent, as he rated Flyingbolt (as well as Arkle) approximately two stone superior to Mill House.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
Arkle is and in my opinion always will be the greatest steeplechaser ever. 1. Because he carried weights which are not allowed now and still won. 2. Because Flyingbolt although extremely good himself would never have beaten Arkle in any race off level weights. 3. Because if any steeplechaser in history raced against Arkle off level weights he would have destroyed them. And 4. Because of how easily he consistently beat 1 of the top 5 steeplechasers of all time in Mill House who coincidently would have pissed all over Flyingbolt.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 2 points
Suggest this list be scrapped now that mischief makers have tampered with it.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
To the previous commenter - what are the criteria by which we will compare a steeplechaser with a flat track horse? What are the metrics in common? Frankly, I wouldn't be able to come up with anything, and I would be curious to hear what you would say.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
No one in Europe,nor I suspect,any other part of the world where horseracing is predominantly run on grass, takes the American horseracing scene seriously. After all most of the US racetracks are run on dirt,or a quagmire when it rains, and EVERY racetrack is the same sterile, flat course with a few bends thrown in to break the monotony. I am quite convinced that if most of these American horses were to race on ,say, British racecourses such as Epsom, they would become unbalanced and found wanting. I'm fed up of hearing about how great Secretariat was,yet his connections never had the bottle to send him over to Europe to take in a race such as the Prix de l'arc de Triomphe.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
I must agree with the last writer about this being a "disorganized" list. I have been an advocate for Arkle (and for Flyingbolt) but it would make more sense to have a list for flat-race horses and another for jumpers.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, 3 points
Did I say Arkle wasn't a thoroughbred? I've read and reread my entries above and can't possibly fathom what you're talking about.
I don't find you very educated, so I'll try harder to explain. If we’re going to include steeplechasers on a list of the greatest racehorses, then we have to include the top harness racers, the top hurdlers, top endurance racers, top dressage performers, etc. Are these not all “racehorses” in your uneducated opinion?
When I think of “racehorses,” I’m thinking flat track. And I think most people are. There has to be a common set of metrics by which racehorses can be measured against one another. For me, the chief metric is SPEED, because that’s what it’s all about. Beating the other horses on a flat track.
No matter how great Arkle certainly was, his achievements were not of the speedy kind. Here is what one biographer said about Arkle:
“As a youngster, he was noted for his kindness, intelligence and easy going nature, but his running ability was being questioned. . . Arkle was initially entered into flat races. After only six outings on the flat however, this soon to be famous race horse was pulled from the flat scene and would be asked to jump over hurdles.”
Put Arkle #1 on a list of the greatest steeplechasers, no question. Put Bret Hanover as the greatest harness racer. But you can’t compare horses of different styles against one another. It makes for a disorganized, rowdy list and that’s why I don’t find this particular web page very useful and will continue to critique it in my discussion posts.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
To the last contributor and, frankly, to educate YOU! A thoroughbred is any breed of horse,bred chiefly for racing,originating from a cross between Arabian stallions and English mares, which, incidentally , is precisely what Arkle's breeding stems from. Perhaps you will, in future, be in full possession of the facts before making yourself look ridiculous in these posts.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Arkle is a steeplechaser - he runs pretty fast, then he jumps over a barrier and sometimes he lands in a puddle too. Then he runs pretty fast again, then jumps over another barrier. A racehorse is a thoroughbred who runs around a flat track. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to educate you.
Tell me (if you know), what were Arkle's best times in the mile, 1-1/8, 1-1/4, 1-1/2 and 1-5/8?
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
If Arkle isn't a racehorse then perhaps you can tell me just exactly what he is. There's an empty cell in some institution, Watch out pal,the men in the white coats are looking for you!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
Steeplechasers can't be included in a list of racehorses. I'm sure Arkle was great, but he's taking the place of some other horse that deserves to be in the top 10.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
Having "absolutely no doubt whatsoever" is no argument, Jeepster. Pat Taaffe was far from sure about which of the two was superior, and so was Ireland's official handicapper at the time. Who are you to argue with them? I should add that I made a mistake in my appreciation of Flyingbolt, stating that the longest trip over which he won was three miles and a quarter when, in fact, it almost half a mile more.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, -1 points
There never has been a greater steeplechaser than Arkle and there never will be. Flyingbolt would have had Arkle's measure at 2 miles,but at the championship distance of 3miles plus I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Arkle would have been superior to Flyingbolt. Remember that Arkle still holds the Sandown Park course record at 3miles 5furlongs which he set in 1965 ,almost 46 years ago. We will never see his like again.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, 2 points
"No other steeplechaser can be compared to Arkle....." ? Read about Flyingbolt (farther down this list) and bear in mind that Pat Taaffe, who rode both, was far from sure about which was better.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, 0 points
I was convinced Mill House would have been the greatest chaser of all time. He was the perfect chasing machine until he met Arkle.
Not just great. This horse is a legend.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 0 points
the greatest race horse ever, a total freak of nature .secretariat a close 2nd
Added 14 years ago by guest, -1 points
Very few people,if any, will argue with that assessment of the best chaser of all time.
Added 14 years ago by guest, 2 points
81.
Bahram
Bred by the Aga Khan, Bahram was Britain’s top two-year-old of 1934 and top three-year-old of ’35. He was undefeated in his nine-race career, including winning the UK Triple Crown (2,000 Guineas, Epsom Derby and St. Leger). He won over distances from 5f to 14f. Interestingly, his half-brother Dastur had been runner-up in all three legs of the Triple Crown in 1932.
566 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 7 comments
Comments:
Bahram was also the top-line great grandsire of the NZ-bred Australian champion Tulloch.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 1 point
Bahram was also the sire of the grandam of English fillies Triple Crown winner Meld and is thus the sire of the third dam of Meld's Epsom Derby-winning son Charlottown.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Bahram was far from a dud at stud. The Aga Khan sold him to the US in late 1940 due to the unpleasantness in Europe at the time. From five seasons at stud in the UK Bahram sired the Classic winners Turkhan, Queen of Shiraz and Big Game as well as Coronation Cup winner Persian Gulf (sire of Epsom Derby winner Parthia). Bahram also appears in the pedigrees of Arc winners Vaguely Noble, Urban Sea and Sea The Stars, Epsom Derby winner Galileo and undefeated 2,000 Guineas and Champion Stakes winner Frankel – and many other top-liners including the progeny of all the aforesaid.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
I agree with the point made elsewhere on this site that this list is about racing records and not about siring records. But least Bahram’s potency be sold short in some posts below, he is also in the sire lines of the US Hall of Fame filly Dark Mirage and the only winner of Germany’s Triple Crown Königsstuhl.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
Of the 15 English Triple Crown winners since 1853, only two have retired undefeated: 1935's TC winner Bahram (9 of 9), and 1886's TC winner Ormonde (16 of 16).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 10 points
Bahram wasn't a complete dud at stud. He sired the dam of Noor, the Epsom Derby and Eclipse Stakes placegetter and U.S. Hall of Fame member. (Noor is featured on this list).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
After five years at stud in the UK he was sold to breeding interests in the US, where he met with little success and was subsequently sold to Argentina.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 0 points
82.
Frankel
4/4 One to watch. This horse in my mind is going to be the one to watch in 2011
560 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 84 comments
Comments:
The great American racehorse of the late 19th century, Salvator, in 1890 ran a time trial down what was then a straight mile course at Monmouth in 1:35.5. That was 1.8 seconds, or 9 lengths, faster than Frankel’s 2,000 Guineas time 121 years later! If ever anyone needed proof that Frankel’s much-hyped 2,000 Guineas win was historically slow, this is surely it!
Added 10 years ago by guest, 12 points
Ribot was undefeated, could race 5f, 1m, 1m 7f, probably even 2m. He could run on all surfaces in all type of conditions, and abuse the opposition. Wins the arc twice, once by 81/2 lengths. Secretariat better? Cool, Sea Bird?Maybe but Frankel? No chance
Added 10 years ago by guest, 27 points
Rather than comparing Frankel’s fastest winning mile (which was on grass) to the fastest winning miles of Dr. Fager, Equipoise and Easy Goer (which were all on dirt), a more apples-to-apples comparison would be to Mandurah’s world record mile on grass: 1:31.23, set at Monmouth Park in 2010. That’s 6.07 secs quicker than Frankel’s fastest mile of 1:37.3, or 30 lengths!!! Frankel carried 126 lbs and raced on a straight course (with undulations) officially rated good-to-firm. Mandurah carried 114 lbs and raced around two turns (no undulations) on a track officially rated firm.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 16 points
Continuing this discussion about Frankel’s slow times: Dr. Fager and Equipoise were both four-year-olds when they ran their world record miles. Frankel ran his fastest mile at three. So let’s limit the comparison to three-year-olds. As a three-year-old in 1989 Easy Goer won the Gotham Stakes at Aqueduct in 1:32 2/5; in tenths of seconds, 1:32.4. That’s 4.9 seconds, or 24.5 lengths, faster than Frankel’s fastest winning mile of 1:37.3 in the 2,000 Guineas.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 54 points
Thank you for pointing out the posts under Dr. Fager and Equipoise. They highlight my point that in his 14-race career, Frankel-The-Wonder-Horse never went close to threatening a race record, much less a track record, an English record, or a world record! His fastest winning mile, in the 2,000 Guineas, was slow even relative to the recent history of the 2,000 Guineas. Of the last 20 runnings of this classic, 12 have been faster than Frankel’s and seven slower. Yet despite his slow time, and being ridden out with the whip, The Guardian hyped it as “one of the greatest performances seen on a British racecourse.” One wonders what The Guardian would have said of Dr. Fager’s 25.5-length faster mile in 1968, or Equipoise’s 14.5-length faster mile back in 1932?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 44 points
Interesting posts on this site under Dr. Fager and Equipoise, comparing their world record wins over 8f to Frankel's fastest win over 8f in the 2,000 Guineas. These posts give some revealing historical perspective to one of Frankel's way over-hyped wins.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 15 points
Yea thats right, they should ban Timeform. Unless it says that Secretariat the best horse then its all right,
Added 11 years ago by guest, -64 points
This Timeform should be banned.Its a complete joke.Give status where status is due.His times dont warrant such a rating.Good but not great.Are people really supposed to believe this horse is better than Secretariat just because Timeform says so?
Added 11 years ago by guest, 66 points
Yap that Orfevre is a lot superior to this Fabricated Frankel. A sprinter miler who cannot run europes classic of 12 furlongs....
Added 11 years ago by guest, -2 points
Orfevre the Japanese horse doesn't even get on this list and has lost most of his races this year. Best horse in the world? You must be dreaming!
Added 11 years ago by guest, 4 points
SeaTheStars ran a faster 2,000 Guineas than Frankel.....this horse overrated.....
Added 12 years ago by guest, 23 points
For me, the greatest flathorse race of all time ahead of Sea The Stars. The 2011 2,000 Guineas was probably the highlight of his career.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -21 points
Not only is Orfevre the best horse in the world today, as a group the Japanese are breeding the best horses in the world. They are sending their thoroughbreds all over the world to run in the world's prestigious races. They will be the power in thoroughbred racing. Breeding for short horses like Frankel and Black Caviar is a losing game. Yesh it looks now but in the long run, the most prestigious races in the world are still 10 furlongs and longer.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 7 points
Frankel gripped an entire nation courtesy of British Timeform and it's ridiculous artificial man made number. No different than Black Caviar gripping the nation of Australia. This might be good in the short run to hype these short distance horses but Frankel bypassing the greatest races in Britain and europe and Black Caviar a 6 furlongs horse re-directing the breeding away from the Melbourne Cup and Cox plate just like Frankel directing the breeding away from 12 furlongs horses is not a good think longterm, regardless of what the breeders says.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 13 points
I don't care what anyone says. This horse gripped an entire nation over the past three years and he still won on Saturday despite the very soft ground and giving the rest of the field a three length head start. He's the greatest I've ever seen. The way he went past CDA on the bridle was unbelievable.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -33 points
all the people that mater trainers, jockeys, bookmakers think this is the best horse full stop
Added 12 years ago by guest, -35 points
Frankel has just won the Champion Stakes at Ascot in front of the Queen. This is his 14th win in 14 races. He nbeat what many think to be the finest sprinters in Europe, Nathaniel and Cirrus des Aigles. This race was over a mile and a quarter, not his best distance, on ground that was sodden from heavy rains, Horses were throwing up clods of turf. Many thought that he might lose.
He started very badly at least three lengths down on the leaders. Yet by six furlongs he was pulling through a top rated field as though they were beaten. He won by two lengths, one of his least impressive margins in what was his last race.
Sir Henry Cecil a modest and understated man, finally admitted that he was the best that he had ever seen. Most who watched at Ascot thought the same as he was cheered down the last few furlongs.
He is certainly the most valuable horse ever, with an estiamated value of £100m.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -17 points
This horse simply is the greatest ever. Never beaten and necer looked like being beaten. Never pushed, never needed to make an effort
Added 12 years ago by guest, -33 points
Well if you think that that Japanese pony Orfevre is the greatest thoroughbred in the world, then don't expect too many people to take your comments seriously here. BIZARRE!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
We see sprinters like Frankel all the time, her name is Black Caviar. What we do not see are the Sea The Stars, Ribot, Dancing Braves, Brigadier Gerard, SeaBird or the greatest thoroughbred today running hands down......ORFEVRE.....
this are the rare horses we do not see hardly today.....not sprinters like Frankel......I see them all the time at Alamitos running 440 yards.....
Added 12 years ago by guest, 37 points
If we are talking about milers, then yes, Frankel is the greatest.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
2kguineas is the bottom of the totem pole as far as the triple is concern. It is his most prestigious race. Should be compared to milers instead of really great horses. His hype, timeform and all the accolades he has been given has exceeded his accomplishments. Would eventually drift away like Aberrant.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 30 points
Clearly a great horse but far too highly placed in this list. How can he be 80 places over camelot when he has not acieved all that Camelot has acheived. His cowardly trainers and owners have been very carefull not to run him when there is any risk involved, We will never know how good he could have been unless he goes for the breeders cup or the Arc
Added 12 years ago by Bill Lambert, 32 points
Sorry Previous table got slewed. Over one mile the best times for Secretariat 1.33.4 for Man O` War1.35.8 and for Frankel 1.37.3.
At One mile and a quarter, they are Secretariat 1.59.4. Man O` War 2.01.8, Frankel 2.06.82.
Frankel has not competed over other distances apart from 7 furlongs, where no times are available for the other two.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 34 points
Here are actual race times, as recorded for Frankel, Secretariat and man O`War
Distance Man O` War Frankel Secretariat
6 furlongs 1:11.2 1:09.8
7 furlongs 1.24.6
1 mile 1:35.8 1.37.3 1:33.4
8.5 1:44.8 1:42.8
9 1:49.2 1:45.4
9.5 1:56.6 1:53.4
10 2:01.8 2.06.82 1:59.4
11 2:14.2 2:12.2
1 1.5 2:28.8 2:24
13 2:40.9 2:37.8
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
I suggest that those who scoff watch the 2011 2,000 Guineas at Newmarket, one of the world`s great mile races. Frankel led from the gate and extended his lead to 15 lengths at the half way mark. There were audible gasps from the crowd at his pace up the first four furlongs Towards the finish he slipped back but still won by 6 lengths against a stron field
He was favorite for the Derby before entires were submitted, but his trainer the great Henry Cecill probably rightly doubted his stamina at a mile and a half.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -25 points
Both British and American opinion consider that a racehorse can only be great if it wins at middle distance. In flat racing, enduring greatness is conferred only by the Classics; the contests for three-year-olds over a mile (2,000 Guineas), a mile and a half (Derby) and a mile and three-quarters (St Leger), which have established the best horses of each generation for more than two centuries.
On this basis Frankel cannot be the greatest racehorse ever. But he is surely the greatest miler. r
Added 12 years ago by guest, 12 points
Those Americans who are consisting voting minuses for this horse because he was bred in England should examine his pedigree. Both sire and dam were bred in Ireland. Of the previous generation six of his ancestors were American, one British and the other the great Canadian racehorse Norther Dancer.
Northern Dancer also sired one of his ancestors in the previous generation, which included another Canadian horse and nine American horses.
So essentially, he is an American horse, genetically, who has raced only in England on turf and never in the US on cinders. But horse breeding is an international business and great French , Irish and English horses win races as well as American.
He has not entered the Derby, Arc or Kibng George V and so could hardly have won them. It is doubtful whether he has the stamina for more than 10 furlongs, which he showed in his last race at York.
But this is like criticising Usain Bolt because he could not beat Sebastian Coe`s or even Emil Zatopek`s times over middle distances.
Frankel sprints all the way through his races at up to 42mph. His split furlong times are, of course, faster than Secretariat`s but over shorter distances.and on turf not dirt.
Most expert who have seen him run do not expect to see such a horse again, this century. He has beaten Arc winners over shorter distances.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -14 points
This way overrated horse is nothing more than a product of timeform and its biased towards british based horses. Just look at the top 5. Four are British with a sprinter and 2 milers and only one Arc winner and yet you look at the following horses and they are all Arc winners. This horse accomplishments are nothing to be proud off. No Epsom Derby, No King George, No Arc, No derbies at all. Will soon be forgotten. He is nothing more than the best british miler on straight courses.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 39 points
Frankel has been brilliant throughout his career, and his 11-length winning margin at Royal Ascot was not even the easiest of his career, as he won a minor event at Doncaster in 2010 by 13 lengths. But this was not just Frankel's finest performance, it was possibly the best single performance by any horse, on any track, ever.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -25 points
Here is the international reting organisation Timeform`s rating of the best flat racwers over the past forty years.
147 Frankel: Unbeaten in 11 races with potential to improve still further
145 Sea-Bird:II Convincing winner of the Derby and the Prix de l`Arc de triomphe in 1965
144 Brigadier Gerard: Winner of 17 of 18 races before retiring in 1972 only losing in the Juddmonte at York.
142 Abernant: Champion sprinter in 1949/50
142 Ribot: Prix de l`Arc de Triomphe winner who went 16 races undefeated in 1950s
142 Windy City: Champion two-year-old of 1951
Added 12 years ago by guest, -5 points
On 22 August, 2012 Frankel won the Juddmonte International Stakes at York. This race was over 10 furlongs and was the first time that he raced over more than a mile. Many wondered whether he could win at this distance. With his customary odds of 1/10 On in a field of nine, the Bookies were looking for a break. In fact he won by seven lengths from Farhh, a fine racehorse,
He became the first horse ever to win 8 European Group 1 races in a row
Forget ratings, handicappers’ assessments or any comparison of racehorses from previous generations . What makes Frankel unique is his ability to go at a top class sprint over distance... He is a genetic phenomenon which may not be repeated for 100 years.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -12 points
It is sad to think that Frankel` last race will be at Ascot in October. He has never rqced outside England but he has won every race that he has been entered for. He even won at York in the one race that eluded the great Brigadier Gerard. who reportely ran it with a severe viral infection.
Joe Mercer. Brigadier Gerard`s regular jockey said that if he could win at York he would be up there with the Big fella, which is what Mercer caller Brigadier Gerard.
He is , of course a miler, good between 6 and 8 furlongs but without the stamina to run the middle distances like Secretariat or Brigadier Gerard who won at diostances from 6 furlongs to a mile and a half
But his furlong timings on grass, sometimes good,. sometimes heavy going, were faster than Secretariat`s. Anyne who has seen him run even on filmn would rate himn higher than 13. .
Added 12 years ago by guest, -2 points
He is an immensely talented horse but his Timeform rating is ridiculous! In an effort to find relevance and revenue in an ever more fiercely competitive digital world of horseracing information, Timeform has lost its way and has become something of a joke. Sad.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 50 points
To date NO Derby, NO Arc, NO World Cup, NO Breeders Cup. Does not run in the best races and as a result of this is not beating the best horses.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 46 points
The hype must have affected people's brain. A miler who had to wait till he is bigger and stronger at 4 before even trying 10 furlongs.....please....give this a rest.....
Added 12 years ago by guest, 43 points
It is dissapointing that racing is now so totally dominated by money that Modern day horses are retired to ensure that their stud fees are maximised. Frankel still has the chance to be in the record books forever as the greatest. All(!) he needs to do is run in the Arc, tyhe champions stakes and the Ledger and that wiould set hom apart. Unfortunately he will only run in the (possibly easiest) Champions stakes. Its not his fault and you cant blame his connections, is simpl;y not worth risking defeat. Shame.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 7 points
A truly great racehorse... he is without doubt the best racehorse Europe has ever had
most the current and retired top Jockeys have said it
we have been lucky to witness such greatness
Added 12 years ago by guest, -28 points
The comment below was made to look so ridiculous today..... He brushed aside SNA a breeders cup winner in facile fashion. This horse is an absolute monster, he would walk the Arc if entered. What a thought.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -15 points
What is there to criticize about Frankel....he has only won at a mile and maybe 10 furlongs...what I find pathetic is these so called expert that called this overrated miler an all-time great....yeah all time great hype...that is....
Added 12 years ago by guest, 25 points
Many of those who have criticized Frankel's undoubted class and ability know next to nothing about the conformation about a true champion of the turf. If these people were racehorses they would probably only be capable of contesting the lowest grade of selling races, and all of them would be wearing blinkers. They remind me of that extinct US political party from the 19th century called " The Know- Nothing Party!"
Added 12 years ago by guest, -23 points
Well the laugh is on you by the industry hyping all these overrated horses....I guess ignorance is bliss....There was a time a miler wasn't worth squat in this country or any country for that matter....Why do you think that the most renowned, prestigious races in the world like the Arc, Melbourne Cup, Kentucky Derby, Epsom Derby, Japan Cup, Dubai World Cup, Hongkong Cup etc etc have the highest purses in the millions of dollars are all 10 furlongs or longer???
You young ones been suckered.....
Added 12 years ago by guest, 23 points
Always makes me laugh when I read comments about great horses being overated. Just enjoy watching him, was a bit to young to appreciate the Brigadier , but it's great to have a horse like Frankel around
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
Black Caviar won all of her 21 races and most are G1....so whats the big deal about this overrated miler??
Added 12 years ago by guest, -43 points
Usain Bolt is the best sprinter in the world but when it comes to the best runner is is Hicham El Guerrouj
Bolt only has speed but Hicham has speed and stamina, sturdiness and agility...
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
Frankel has won all 11 of his races most grade 1 I would say that he is more than the 6th best horse ever and it could take 11 seconds they are still good at what they do and if u don't do it then you can't really comment so don't they are some of the best athletes ever they are good at what they do and he DOES belong on this list
Added 12 years ago by guest, -8 points
Hear,Hear!!! This list is called Best Racehorses Of All Time. So of course Frankel should be barred ......... in the same way that Usain Bolt should be kept out of any list headed Greatest Athletes Of All Time. What he does takes less than ten seconds.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -19 points
Yes a vastly way overrated horse and definitely does not belong in this list and probably would come up with some excuse to ducked the Juddmonte. Reminds me of that way overrated Rachel Alexandra from USA
Added 12 years ago by guest, 9 points
Hopefully you mean he has no peers among current racehorses, because you simply cannot compare a horse that has never raced at middle distances to the likes of Secretariat, Sea Bird II, and MOW!
Added 12 years ago by bigred, 16 points
He has no peers. It is as simple as that
Added 12 years ago by guest, -18 points
The easiest thing in the world is to exaggerate the ability and exploits of a racehorse, but in the case of Frankel his exploits on the racecourse have provided ample proof of this horse's truly phenomenal brilliance. I have been the most ardent supporter of Brigadier Gerard's pre-eminence as the greatest miler there has ever been, but even I must now concede the fact that Frankel is better. I believe that Frankel relentless galloping action would have had even the great BG in trouble. I never thought I would see another horse, in my lifetime, that would supersede BG as the greatest miler of all time, until the emergence of the freak of nature called Frankel arrived on the scene
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
Just remember that Frankel is a miler and NOT a middle distance performer like Secretariat and Sea Bird II. It is impossible and unfair to compare horses from different eras. Just accept the brilliance of Frankel for the short time he will be with us. It will be a very long time before we see his like again.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 5 points
I would urge American horse fanciers to watch some of the recent clips of Frankel performing at Royal Ascot and other English courses. You cannot fail to be impressed by his graceful movement and the way that he can pull away from some of the fastest European milers in contention.
The British rating authority which gives a handicap to horses on their performaance in all races, calculated on the basis of the margin by which thay beat other rated horses in the same race has made Frankel 147, the highest ever recorded.This puts him above Seabird II, often described as the greatest European racehorse, ever.
Secretariat? Perhaps impossible to compare different eras, different surfaces, different distances and uphill tracks with flats. But he merits a similar position..
Added 12 years ago by guest, -8 points
I never thought that there would ever be another horse in my lifetime who could surpass the exploits of the great Brigadier Gerard over one mile, until now. Frankel is just a truly amazing racehorse, a freak of nature. I really do believe that this animal is the greatest miler that we have ever seen anywhere in the world. He just blows away all opposition, nothing can get near him. This will probably be his last season in training, but it has been a real privilege and a pleasure to see this great horse in action , the memory of which I shall never forget.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -5 points
Come on people, Frankel is an absolute beast. All these American horses higher up couldn't hold a candle to Frankel. His demolition in the Queen Anne was simply mesmeric. Outstanding. No.1
Added 12 years ago by guest, -15 points
On Saturday at Royal Ascot on going described as good, Black Caviar`s fastest furlong out of six was timed at 10.84 secs. On the same track on Tuesday Frankels fastest furlong was timed on going described as good to soft at 1058 secs. His winning margin was 11 lengths, destroying the opposition. Black Caviar, perhaps poorly ridden, won in a photo finish.
Both times were faster than anything recorded for Secratariat who ran over longer distances on cinders.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -5 points
Frankel`s fastest furlong in the Queen Anne stakes at Royal Ascot was covered in just 10.58 seconds. On the other hand, the Australian horse Black Caviar has been timed over 200 metres at a time which equates to 10.04 seconds for a furlong. Both would seem to be faster than Secretariat`s fastest recorded time of 23 seconds over two furlongs. That, of course, was run over a greater distance.
Sir Henry Cecil`s (Frankel`s trainer) verdict on the Australian and the English horse is that they are both great horses over their own distance and will never meet in a race. That of course is even more certain for Secretariat.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -4 points
British Horse racing authority only rated it 140 behind 141 of Dancing Brave.
Frankel could be the best but not yet.
Still behind Phar Lap , Secretariat and others.
He might be better than Black Caviar atm though
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Secretariat ran his famous 1973 Belmont stakes in two minutes 24 seconds. This remains a world record time for one and a half miles on a dirt track. In the 1973 Kentucky Derby which he won in under two minutes, he completed the last quarter mile in just 23 seconds.
Frankel`s time over 1 Mile at Royal Ascot at 1 minute 37.85 seconds was uphill in going rated officially as good to soft. - perhaps therefore essentially slower than a dry, dirt track that is flat.
On the face of it, therefore, Secretariat was galloping faster in longer races on dirt tracks than Frankel was on Tuesday. I am unsure as to whether Frankel has the stamina to compete over the distances that Secretariat enjoyed.
But what is clear is that both horses had beautiful flowing motions, loved to race, and left some very highly rated horses far behind in their wake. Both are a joy to watch.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 8 points
The British have developed a system of rating horses for overall sped on different courses. For example Royal Ascot has a 1% climb up the mile, and the going on Tueday was only good to soft.
The handicap is based on comparison with other race horses in the same race, So it allows for different ground and different courses.
On this basis Frankel`s rating has been raised to 147, Previous rating for Sea-Bird (born in 1962, rated 145), Brigadier Gerard (born in 1968, rated 144) and Tudor Minstrel (born in 1944, rated 144) have Been far above anything since. Until Frankel no horse had broken 140 since the 1970s.
So, it was not done lightly when Frankel was rated 143 at the end of his three-year-old career. And it is not done lightly now that he, on 147, is rated higher than any horse in history.
Frankel's 147 rating is not simply a response to just one remarkable performance, either. It might have been plausible to have rated him that highly on his easy win in the Lockinge Stakes at Newbury in May .
Frankel has now won 11 races out of 11, the last six of them Group 1s by a combined winning margin of 31 and three-quarter lengths. That is an astonishing record even when judged against the great horses of all time
it will be interesting to see him up against Black Caviar if they ever race together.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Sorry for the error. He won the Queen Anne stakes at Royal Ascot not at Epsom, which is the Derby course. He narrowly missed the course record on ground that was good to soft after heavy rains on Friday. Previous wins include the 2,000 Guineas at Newmarket where he was leading by 15 lengths at the half way mark.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
To see him winning at Epsom today, it would be hard to imagine that any other horse can beat him over his favourite distance of one mile. After three furiongs the jockey let him go and he just strode away from the field. He won by eleven lengths. Now that Epsom gives the time over each furlong you can see just how fast he was when he chose to run ahead at three furlongs. By the fifth or sixth furlong he had slackened off perhaps because he was running out of steam or perhaps because he was winning so easily. Maybe he does not havre the stamina for the Derby and he is obviously not a jumper for the Grand National but he would seem to be unbeatable over the mile. He came in at 11 to 10 on and the punters were saying its safer than putting your money in a building society and they pay up more quickly. What a beautiful motion.
Clearly one of the fastest sprinters of all time. His handicap is now being raised to 141.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
Best horse in the world,and not even comments from idiots can change that fact.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -8 points
He hasn't dodged just the Derby and the Arc. He hasn't run in the Grand National either. Or the British Grand Prix at Silverstone. Obviously hopelessly overrated.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -6 points
A very nice horse however his opposition has been questionable at times. Does make them look 2nd rate just the same. Has dodged the Derby and the Arc to date which counts against his greatness
Added 12 years ago by guest, 15 points
The best miler I have ever seen , and I've been involved in horseracing for 51 years. Horses like Frankel come along very rarely and when they do they revitalize the horseracing scene. I hope that Frankel retires to stud undefeated. I think only injury can prevent that.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 4 points
Frankel should be high ,but nowwhere near 10th. he is one of the outstanding ,however he should be in the top 25 .
Added 12 years ago by guest, -1 points
Best horse i've ever seen! Really really impressive and could be one of the greats if he can maintain his winning performances at longer distances!
But I have to say that i'm impressed by Black Caviar too, though I don't really know the level of Australian racing. She won't have it that easy at ascott (in June) as in Australia.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -5 points
Heed these words. Frankel and Black Caviar will NEVER race against each other. Frankel's 2012 campaign will be geared towards distances in excess of a mile and will certainly not be racing at the extended sprint distance of 7 fulongs.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 2 points
Having been a racing fan for 30yrs and seen some truly great horses
Frankel has put up the most sensational runs back to back I have ever seen
and this coming 2012 season will make believers out of all who witness his greatness
and will be in the top 3 on this list
Added 12 years ago by guest, 0 points
He looks very good this colt but look out if he lines up against Black Caviar early in his prep at 6 or 7 furlongs. She's unbeatable just like he appears to be at 8 furlongs. Black Caviar will be racing in England in 2012. She's every bit as freakish mark my words. She's currently 16 from 16. Just youtube her and you can watch all her races and in particular watch her from the 3 furlongs to the 2. Scintillating just like Frankel
Added 12 years ago by guest, -12 points
I have to take issue with the previous contributor. Frankel does NOT possess a turn of pace. What he does possess,however, is the most relentless gallop and ground- raking stride you are ever likely to see. He simply gallops the opposition into the ground. One of the greatest milers of all time, there's absolutely no doubt about that. Cecil says that he is considering stepping Frankel up to 10 furlongs next season and will probably take in the Eclipse Stakes at Sandown in July. Now that is something to look forward to over the long,dark winter months.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
Best horse i have ever seen! His turn of pace is second to none...from day one he has destroyed great horse after great horse with an embarrasing ease, so your greatest of all time right here! If the americans werent so good at hyping their horses up to be better than what they actually are/were...this guy would comfortably be sitting top of the pile!
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
After his scintillating victory in yesterday's Qipco QEII Stakes,there can be little doubt now that this horse is a superstar. His accolade of the greatest racehorse in the world is rightly deserved.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
This horse I think has the potential to become the best miler of all time
his Gallop is breath taking
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
It is much too early to be rating Frankel the best miler of all time. In my opinion both Tudor Minstrel and Brigadier Gerard achieved more on the racecourse than Frankel ,but that assessment could change in the coming months.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 5 points
Cecil has stated that Frankel will stay in training next season,which is great news. He will be an even more powerful racehorse as a 4-year old and could smash course records wherever he appears.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
Only Tudor Minstrel and Brigadier Gerard are ahead of Frankel as specialist milers,but Frankel could well turn out to be the greatest miler of them all. There has never been a racehorse who can gallop like this horse can, he simply destroys all the opposition.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
He is now OFFICIALLY rated the best horse in the world at the moment. He really is a special racehorse and could be one of the all time greats at a mile.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -3 points
I have never seen a top class field destroyed in the way Frankel won the 2000 G . Just hope he stays in training for next season
Added 13 years ago by guest, 1 point
This horse is already an unbeleivable horse however if he beats Canford Cliffs tomorrow he should go straight to the top 5.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
It looks as if he will be kept to races over a mile. It is going to take something special to lower his colours this season.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
No horse was more impressive than this youngster last season . If,and it's a big if, he makes the right progress through the winter, he could be one of the all time greats. I really hope so.
Added 13 years ago by jeepster, 3 points
If Henry Cecil says its the best 2 year old he ever had - horse will be a superstar.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
83.
Bayardo
More than a century since he raced, Bayardo still rates as one of the all-time greats. He beat the best of his generation in England in an undefeated seven-race campaign as a two-year-old in 1908. An injury-interrupted preparation contributed to his defeat in the 2,000 Guineas (4th) and the fall of another horse hampered him in the Derby (5th). He had 11 more starts at three and won them all, including the St. Leger, and he beat older horses in the Eclipse and Champion Stakes. Highlight of his 5 – 4-1-0 campaign at four was a dominating four-length victory over French champion Sea Sick II in the Ascot Gold Cup. He retired with a record of 25 – 22-1-0, having won at the highest levels of competition from 5f to 20f. The National Horseracing Museum’s website rates Bayardo as “without doubt one of the best horses of the 20th century.”
555 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
84.
Ard Patrick
A half-brother to Triple Crown winner Galtee More, Ard Patrick deprived the great filly Sceptre of winning all five English classics when he won the 1902 Epsom Derby by a dominant three lengths, with Sceptre fourth. They would meet again in 1903 in the Eclipse Stakes – along with that year’s 2,000 Guineas and Derby winning colt Rock Sand – with Ard Patrick prevailing by a neck from Sceptre with Rock Sand three lengths back third in what was described as “one of the most anticipated British races of the early 20th century.”
555 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
Ard Patrick’s win over Sceptre and Rock Sand in the 1903 Eclipse Stakes is rated the fourth greatest flat horse race in a listing The Observer newspaper published in 2002 of “The 10 Greatest Horse Races of All Time.” The only flat races it lists as greater than the ’03 Eclipse are: Quashed’s defeat of Omaha in the ’36 Ascot Gold Cup, Grundy’s defeat of Bustino in the ’75 KG&QE, and Secretariat’s singularly incomparable triumph in the ’73 Belmont Stakes.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 6 points
After the 1903 Eclipse Stakes, Rock Sand went on to win the St. Leger and thus complete the Triple Crown. So the three place getters in the 1903 Eclipse ended up with eight classic wins between them! Little wonder it was rated one of the greatest thoroughbred contests of the early 20th century.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 19 points
85.
Ouija Board
Ouija Board won seven Group I stakes in four countries: England, Ireland, the United States and China (Hong Kong). Among her wins were two classics, the Epsom and Irish Oaks, and she won the Breeders’ Cup Filly and Mare Turf twice. She was European Horse of the Year twice and the U.S. Champion Female Turf Horse twice. Although she had only 22 starts, she retired as the second-highest earning British racehorse with the equivalent of $6.3 million.
554 points - added 10 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
Her son, Australia, just won the 2014 Epsom Derby.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 0 points
86.
Le Pacha
Le Pacha is the only horse to win the four most prestigious races available to three-year-old colts in France: the Prix du Jockey Club (French Derby), the Grand Prix de Paris, the Prix Royal-Oak (French St. Leger) and the open company Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. He achieved this during a unique seven-race winning spree in 1941 when, in addition to the four elite races mentioned, he also won the prestigious Prix Hocquart, Prix Greffulhe and Prix Lupin.
547 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
It should be added, though, that Le Pacha's glorious achievement highlighted above (uniquely sweeping the the Prix du Jockey Club, the Grand Prix de Paris, the Prix Royal-Oak and the Arc) happened in 1941 when racing in France, and more broadly in Europe, was weakened and in some disarray due to WWII.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 7 points
87.
Treve
Treve has achieved something genuinely unique: the only female to win the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe at 3 and again at 4. The only other distaff to win dual Arcs, Corrida (in 1936 and 1937), did it at 4 and 5. Although disappointing in her 2014 starts before the Arc, like a true champion Treve found her brilliance when it counted. A great performance to become only the seventh dual Arc winner – and an equally worthy training performance by Criquette Head to get her right on the day.
544 points - added 10 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
Full credit to Golden Horn and Dettori/Gosden for beating Treve fair and square in the Arc and denying this great mare a unique pedestal in the pantheon of thoroughbred greats (three Arcs). But she went out like the champion that she is and retires as a genuine all-time great of the sport.
Added 9 years ago by guest, 2 points
88.
Dubai Millenium
Should be in this list. Lost only once in 10 starts and that too for not staying 12F in the Epsom Derby. Had he stayed the distance he could have been in the top 10 of all time. Dubai Millenium has always outclassed his rivals in all his wins.
519 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 3 comments
Comments:
Not as good as Frankel
Added 12 years ago by guest, -14 points
He was the best turf horse in the last 15 years.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 1 point
Dubai Millenium is one of the fastest horse I've ever seen. He imposes a very fast pace and still outclasses his rivals.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 3 points
89.
Yeats
Easily the greatest stayer of all time. How this horse isn't top ten I will never know. Unmatched history, winning 4 Ascot Gold Cups. Coronation Cup, Goodwood Cup and Irish St Ledger are a few of many big race victories, and also European Champion Stayer 2005,2006,2007,2008 and 2009. Unbeleivable racehorse.
500 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 9 comments
Comments:
More Aussie nonsense!
Added 12 years ago by guest, 30 points
The world's pre emminent authorities on racing, the International Handicappers Board as well as the world's leading owners & trainers all recognise the $7 million Melbourne Cup as they staying championship race. Its run under Quality Handicap conditions and every year 24 horses make the field after winning various races throughout the world to pass the qualifying clauses. Check out the champion stayer category in the World Thoroughbred Rankings and you'll see the Melbourne Cup winner generally at the top. Does that answer your question ?
Added 12 years ago by guest, -32 points
The world's pre emminent authorities on racing, the International Handicappers Board as well as the world's leading owners & trainers all recognise the $7 million Melbourne Cup as they staying championship race. Its run under Quality Handicap conditions and every year 24 horses make the field after winning various races throughout the world to pass the qualifying clauses. Check out the champion stayer category in the World Thoroughbred Rankings and you'll see the Melbourne Cup winner generally at the top. Does that answer your question ?
Added 12 years ago by guest, -45 points
Greatest stayer of all time? There are many who would dispute that. The trouble with assertions of this kind is that some people are overly impressed by a horse's performance without taking into consideration the standard of opposition that a horse encounters. Mediocre, or sub-standard opponents can make any horse look like a world beater. No, there are far more criteria involved in determining the greatness of a horse than simply winning a certain race two,three or four times. Red Rum is a perfect example of this. No one who really knows anything about horseracing would consider Red Rum the equal of Arkle, despite his never-to be -equalled three Grand National wins.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 3 points
Uh? Who declared the Melbourne Cup "the unofficial staying world championship"?
Added 12 years ago by guest, 42 points
Staying world championship? You do realise the Melbourne Cup is a handicap?
Added 12 years ago by FrigateComing, 19 points
Greatest stayer of all time ?? Ever heard of 3 times Melbourne Cup winner Makybe Diva ??? The Melbourne Cup is the unofficial staying world championship and the race in which Yeats finished a well beaten 7th in 2006 after getting a stitch 2 furlongs from home. She would pick Yeats up and carry him from the furlong. That's why she won a staggering AU$14,526,685 in stakemoney compared with Yeats AU$2,500,000 approx.
Added 12 years ago by guest, -15 points
A top class stayer but as with Levmoss, cannot be regarded as among the very best.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 4 points
Levmoss (won Ascot Gold Cup, Cadran. both over two and a half miles, and then the Arc over a mile less in the same year, 1969) bears comparison.
Added 13 years ago by Lochroe, 6 points
90.
Boston
Boston is often referred to as America’s first great racehorse. A foal of 1833, he raced every year from age 3 to 10, and won in each of those years. This was back in the era of heat racing when a horse would race in several grueling heats – each could be multiple miles in distance – on the same day! He won 30 heats over four miles and was undefeated in nine heats over three miles. After losing his first start, over the next five years he won 36 of 37 races. He retired in 1843 with career stats of 45 – 40-2-1 and the then staggering amount of $51,700 in earnings.
494 points - added 10 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
Boston was one of the original nine inductees into the U.S. National Museum of Racing's Hall of Fame when it was launched in 1955.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 0 points
91.
Domino
After America transitioned from heat racing in the latter half of the 19th century, speed surpassed endurance among the desirable qualities in thoroughbreds. And Domino became the first great speed horse. Racing as a two-year-old in 1893 he won all nine starts and earned $170,790, which remained the juvenile earnings record for 38 years. Although subsequently beaten over longer distances Domino remained America’s preeminent horse up to a mile until he retired at the end of his four-year-old season in 1895. He left the racetrack with career stats of 25 – 19-2-1 and earnings of $193,550. This remained the career earnings record for a quarter of a century until exceeded in 1920 by a pretty handy colt named … Man o’ War.
493 points - added 10 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
What a nice epitaph (below).
Added 10 years ago by guest, 0 points
According to the only online inflation calculator I can find that goes back that far, Domino's two-year-old earnings of $170,790 in 1893 were the equivalent of $4,297,656 in 2012 dollars.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 12 points
Domino died prematurely, at age 6. His grave and headstone are still intact in Kentucky. His epitaph reads: "Here lies the fleetest runner the American turf has ever known, and the gamest and most generous of horses."
Added 10 years ago by guest, 24 points
Domino was one of the original nine inductees into the U.S. National Museum of Racing's Hall of Fame when it was launched in 1955.
Added 10 years ago by guest, 2 points
92.
Kincsem
54 starts 54 wins,a record which may never be approached let alone beaten checkout this legendary hungarian mare always inluded in books of the turfs greatest thoroughbreds.
493 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 8 comments
Comments:
Racehorse Rescue Centre: " But is Secretariat the winningest racehorse ever? Not exactly.
Kincsem (Cambuscan GB x Water Nymph by Cotswold), a 19th Century Hungarian Thoroughbred mare (owned and bred by Ernst von Blaskovich), actually won 54 horse races in 54 starts."Secretariat! I'll Have Another! Phar Lap! Those are the horses that probably come to mind when you ask any outsider to racing about the best horse in history.
Thoroughbred Fillie that raced in Europe in the 1870s that won 54 out of 54 starts. Many believe she was the greatest race horse of all time, even greater than Secretariat who most people believe was the greatest.
Added 11 years ago by guest, -4 points
Love the observation below comparing Kincsem and Black Caviar. Well said! LOL.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 28 points
To the unthinking Aussies who proclaim Black Caviar as Pegasus reincarnate, largely on the basis of her winning 22 of 22, I guess Kincsem's 54 of 54 would make her more than twice as good as Black Caviar.
Added 12 years ago by guest, 69 points
No she wasn't a harness racing horse. Among her 54 wins (and no losses) was the Goodwood Cup. That doesn't make her a superstar, but it does prove that she was a formidable performer.
Added 12 years ago by FrigateComing, 6 points
I hear she was a harness raching horse, now in Budapest they still do harness racing.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -21 points
The criteria that determines the greatness of any racehorse are: 1. The quality of the opposition that the horse in question defeated. 2. The distance between the winner and the next horse. 3. The winning time recorded ( course record, etc). I should add that these are not my criteria, but those of prominent horse racing pundits such as Phil Bull of Timeform fame, Quintin Gilbey, Jack Jarvis, top trainer of the 1940's,50's and 60's, and Vincent O'Brien , probably the greatest trainer of racehorses in England or Ireland ever. I don't know what Kincsem achieved with regard to the above criteria, but I somehow doubt that she measured up to those lofty ideals. Personally I would not care to take issue with the assessments of such pre-eminent experts in the sphere of determining equine excellence
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
How could Kincsem be described as other than a great racehorse? Winning 54 times at ANY level is phenomenal, and she was unbeaten to boot. Also, her successes included some of the best races in France and Germany as well as Austria and her own country. And, on her only visit to Britain, she won the Goodwood Cup (now a Group 2 race). George Lambton, who trained the Derby winners Sansovino and Hyperion, described Kincsem as the best racehorse he had ever seen ........ although it has to be said he must have been just a teenager when he saw her.
Added 13 years ago by guest, 7 points
Most of Kincsem's wins were in her native Hungary so we don't really know what the standard of the opposition was like. We shouldn't assume that Kincsem was a great racehorse merely because she was unbeaten.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -2 points
93.
Galtee More
Galtee More won the English Triple Crown in 1897 with, according to one account, “near contemptuous ease.” He had been the top two-year-old in Britain in 1896, beating the previously undefeated and highly esteemed juvenile Velasquez in the Middle Park Plate. Galtee More retired at the end of his three-year-old season with a record of 13 – 11-1-0. His only off-the-board finish came in his last race, the Cambridgeshire Handicap, when he finished 10th in a field of 20 while carrying top weight against mostly older horses and giving the winner a whopping 34 lbs. Yet another great Irish-bred.
492 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
94.
Levmoss
Won Europe's principal stamina tests, the Ascot Gold Cup and the Prix du Cadran, in 1969, and then, in the same year, the Prix de l'Arc over a mile shorter distance. Has there ever been,at the highest class, a more versatile performer?
491 points - added 13 years ago by Lochroe - 3 comments
Comments:
While he probably doesn’t belong in the Top 50 racehorses of all time, he was more than just versatile. What he achieved in his four-year-old season in 1969 was extraordinary; indeed, unique. Not only did he win Europe’s most prestigious staying events, the Ascot Gold Cup and the Prix du Cadran (both 20f), but he came back considerably in distance to win Europe’s most prestigious middle distance event, the Arc (12f), in record time! Little wonder he was the highest Timeform rated horse of that year (133).
Added 11 years ago by guest, 18 points
Versatile, yes; but certainly nowhere near the best.
Added 13 years ago by guest, -1 points
my great great uncle worked with the owner of levmoss ive heard great stories bout him and a few of his others dat are not up here such as le levanstell.....just a bit of family history...
Added 13 years ago by guest, 0 points
95.
Rock Sand
England’s dominant two-year-old of 1902, Rock Sand went on to win the Triple Crown the following year and retired after his four-year-old campaign having never finished out of the placings, 20 – 16-1-3, including taking on the best older horses as a three-year-old. He is remembered for his clashes with the likes of Sceptre, Ard Patrick and Zinfandel. And although those three appeared to have his measure he did beat the mighty mare Sceptre by five lengths in the 1904 Hardwicke Stakes. Any horse that beat Sceptre by that big a margin in a prestige Stakes race deserves to be on this list on that basis alone.
490 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 2 comments
Comments:
This horse also figures prominently in the pedigree of Seabiscuit, whose sire, Hard Tack, was inbred 2x3 to Rock Sand.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
Rock Sand sired the dam of Man o' War.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 3 points
96.
Noor
Bred in Ireland by the Aga Khan, Noor started his career in the UK. A dual winner at two, he won the Diomed Stakes and Great Foal Stakes at three and finished third in the Epsom Derby. But it was wearing Charles Howard’s famous red and white colors on the dirt tracks in California where Noor found his game and his fame, beating the great Citation in four of their five encounters and beating Assault twice, thus becoming the first horse to beat two Triple Crown winners. He set three world records (for 9f, 10f and 14f) and was voted US Champion Older Male Horse in 1950.
489 points - added 11 years ago by guest - 4 comments
Comments:
How many horses gave Citation weight and a beating? Probably not many. But Noor did.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 42 points
Noor’s world record for 10f, 1:58 1/5, set in the 1950 Golden Gate Hcp at Golden Gate Fields, stood for three decades as the fastest ever mile-and-a-quarter on dirt. It was broken by Spectacular Bid when he went 1:57 4/5 in the 1980 Strub Stakes at Santa Anita. But the Bid carried 4 lbs less than Noor did in their record runs. And adding further merit to Noor’s performance: he not only beat the mighty Citation in the Golden Gate Hcp, he gave the Triple Crown winner 1 lb.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 27 points
A good book about this horse was published in 2012. Titled “Noor: A Champion Thoroughbred’s Unlikely Journey from California to Kentucky,” it not only recounts his awesome feats on the track but also the amazing saga of locating his long-forgotten unmarked grave, exhuming his remains and reinterring them amid the bluegrass of Kentucky.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
You can watch the newsreel of Noor’s last race, the 1950 Hollywood Gold Cup, on YouTube. He was last away, second last down the backstretch, then Longden swept him around the field to win narrowly but decisively, setting a new track record. In his wake: 1946 Triple Crown winner Assault, 1949 KY Derby winner Ponder and 1950 US Horse of the Year Hill Prince.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 3 points
97.
Ballymoss
489 points - added 13 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
A runner-up in the Epsom Derby, Ballymoss went on to win two classics in his three-year-old season, the Irish Derby and the St Leger. But as a four-year-old he was the dominant horse in Europe winning the Coronation Cup, Eclipse, King George VI and Arc. He was Timeform’s highest rated horse of 1958 (136, back when that meant something). As well as the Epsom Derby he was runner up in the Washington DC International (finished third, promoted to second), the Great Voltigeur and the Ormonde. Kept hinting at true greatness but never quite fulfilled it.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
98.
Sir Barton
486 points - added 14 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
First horse to win what would become the U.S. Triple Crown. Broke his maiden in the 1919 KY Derby, his first start at three, winning by 5 lengths. Four days later won the Preakness by 4. Next won the Withers. Then, just 32 days after the Derby, won the Belmont by 5, clocking the fastest 11f (as the Belmont was then) in the U.S. to that time. Retrospectively named 1919's Champion Three-Year-Old Colt and Horse of the Year. Raced with mixed success at four (12 – 5-2-3), winning the Saratoga Hcp (giving weight and a beating to Exterminator; thought by many to be Sir Barton’s greatest race) and setting a new U.S. record for 9.5f in the Merchants & Citizens Hcp. Tarnished his otherwise sparkling reputation with a 7-length loss to then three-year-old champ Man o’ War in their highly touted match race in Canada.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 11 points
99.
Skip Away
Skip Away won the Jockey Club Gold Cup in 1966 and 1967, defeatng Cigar who had won 17 of his previous 18 races, He won the Breeder`s Classic in 1997. He still holds the record times for both races. He is the only horse ever to have produced a faster average speed than Secretariat with his 37.85mph in the 1997 Jockey compared to Secretariat`s 37,83 mph in the Preakness of 1973.
He was incosistent with some poor performances in the Kentucky Derby and coming only second in the Preakness and the Belmont. Only as a 4 year old did he really blossom. Certainly not the greatest horse ever, but it is odd that the fastest horse ever in a major race is not in your list.
485 points - added 12 years ago by guest - 1 comment
Comments:
He does not hold the BC Classic record anymore, the great Ghostzapper beat it.
Added 11 years ago by guest, 1 point
100.
Pilsudski
A late bloomer, Pilsudski won six G1s in five countries: Ireland (Irish Champion Stakes), England (Eclipse and Champion Stakes), Germany (Grosser Preis von Baden), Canada (Breeders’ Cup Turf), Japan (Japan Cup). And he was twice runner-up in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe. His most successful jockey, Michael Kinane, said of him: “They don’t come any tougher than this horse.” After he won his last race, the Japan Cup, The Independent described him as “one of the best horses in the world.”
484 points - added 11 years ago by guest -
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